Russia, friend or foe?

How do you figure that?

 

Is this an honest question?

Russia just had a major change in everything in their country a few decades ago, so much that even the map was redrawn. Russia has a large population that want's some of that land pack and Putin will do whatever he can to squeeze away whatever he can. He promotes hatred of The West to pump up his base, just like Obama or Trump does with their hyper partisan fringe bases.

Russia will do whatever is best for Russia in their opinion, if you don't understand this and think they should just do what we (the US) says is pretty humerous

 

It is my belief that there are not just many Russian sympathizers on the forum, but actual Russians that are loyal to Putin only.

And there is this...

 

I wasn't certain you were referring to Russia?

 

Typical Trump, he wants it both ways. He thinks he is being clever. Actually, he looks equivocal, silly, confused, and totally bereft of convictions. His beliefs are based entirely on the changing topography of politics. He can believe one thing on a given day. 24 hours later, that belief can make an abrupt about face.

No where is that more clear than the issue of Russian interference in our election.

Prior to Friday, Trump has been one of the few voices within the Republican party who has consistently voiced doubts about Russia's role in the meddling of the American presidential election. On Friday, according to SecState Tillerson, it was the first thing Trump brought up with Putin.

His comments on Thursday were broadly consistent with the skepticism over Russian intrusion. On the other hand, Trump said Russia probably did it....but they might not have!

On Friday, Trump bowed to pressure and the first thing out of his mouth was the Russian interference in our election. Well, sort of, but not really. According to Tillerson, "The president opened the meeting by raising the concerns of the American people regarding Russian interference in 2016 election." At no time did Trump say that he was concerned about the attack on our democracy. Trump never told Putin that he believed that Russia interfered in our election.

Putin and Trump agreed to disagree on the subject.

Trump had it both ways, or so he thinks. Wait until he gets home and has to face Republican Senators who approved new sanctions against Russian, but the bill is stalled in the House.

 

You conveniently omitted the first statement. I said, "as President, Trump has never condemned Russia for interfering in our election."

As recently as yesterday, he said, "I think it was Russia, but it could've been other people and other countries. Nobody really knows. I think a lot of people interfere."

If he won't even completely acknowledge that Russia intruded into our election, it is not possible he would punish Russia for something he won't admit they did. It is equally unlikely that he would take steps to prevent further intrusion if he doesn't wholeheartedly believe Russia did it in the first place. Also, if he has done either of those things, in this atmosphere, I hardly think he would keep it a secret. He isn't that stupid, and he would love to upstage the "fake news" media.

Reagan openly hated the Soviet regime. He called it the "evil empire." Trump continues to try to be a friend of Putin. That's why he won't press the issue of Russian interference. You are comparing apples to oranges.

Also, what Reagan was doing was not much of a big secret. The full impact of what he did occurred when the Soviet Union fell. At the time we were fully aware that Reagan was trying to break the Soviet bank. We just weren't sure it would work.

Tell me, ignoring Afghanistan, how did Reagan's policies kill thousands of Soviet citizens?

 

Economic sabotage for one. Under Reagan for example (operation detailed in the book "Reagan and the Cold War" I think it was) the CIA allowed the Soviets (operating with Canadian cutouts) to steal industrial computer operating codes which had been tampered with. The Soviets used this in their petroleum distribution system, once the tampered with computer codes activated, they caused numerous major oil and gas leaks across the Soviet Union.

In 1989, one of those gas leaks caused a massive explosion (kiloton range) that IIRC killed nearly 500 people.

Back to the beginning, I thought you derided the significance of statements regarding the Russians. If statements don't matter much then why gripe about President Trump failing to make such statements?

 

Interesting hypothesis. If true, I have found they are not very effective. There is a lack of intelligence.

 

"Tell me, ignoring Afghanistan, how did Reagan's policies kill thousands of Soviet citizens?"

A gas leak doesn't count. Are you blaming a gas leak on Reagan?

 

Who are you talking to and what country?

 

No one is talking about demonizing Putin. That is an exaggeration on your part. What you are saying is, it is just fine if Putin attacks our democracy. We should just forget it and move on. Well, that is exactly what Trump is doing. He is a Russian sympathizer, too.

What I am talking about is dealing with Putin from the position of strength. He respects that.

He will not respect an American President who glosses over a clear attack on our form of government. That will only encourage Putin to do more of the same.

A strong leader would tell Putin we know what you did. You are going to be punished for attacking our form of government. And I have taken certain steps to prevent you from doing it again. Now let's move on to other issues.

That's what a strong leader would tell Putin, and it would be over. Everyone would be happy. Maybe even Putin. Now he knows where he stands.

Unfortunately, Trump isn't that strong leader.

 

Never hid the fact I voted for Trump, don't plan to do so in the future. And yeah if one government does it it's not a shock that others do as well. I bet the American and other western media threw a whole lot more resources behind Hillary than Russia threw behind Trump. I would bet that China, France, Germany and other nations governments did many of the same thing's Russia is being accused with but to support Hillary or harm Trump instead.

If you want a law to cover this then make a thread detailing how you would stop Russia/governments and any other outside business from trying to lure voters. I would support such a law that bars businesses and governments from doing anything to sway voters. But that likely isn't your angle here. If that is what you care about then I would like to hear about how you want all foreign governments and businesses including news media to not try to sway our voters. Please tell me how such a law is to be written and enforced.

The whole thing seems to me as CNN said is a "Nothing burger" for ratings by large businesses only interested in money.

 

The gas leak was a result of doctored computer codes that President Reagan's CIA allowed the Soviets to steal and use.

Who else would you blame it on???

 

I think you are completely wrong and history proves it. Putin ate up Bush and Obama and they both tried what you want the US president to do. The reason Putin has increased his power is because the media talks about him being so powerful 24/7 and politicians attack him 24/7, this makes him out to be America's DADDY. WE, THE USA, HAVE CREATED this character that the world now fears and think is powerful. CNN even had a Television show called 'the most powerful man in the world' about Putin. Then you have idiots like Mccain and Rubio calling Putin a thug, a killer etc... ALL this has backfired to unbelievable proportions and has increased Putin's reach around the world, the world now sees Putin as a man that can not only influence elections (something that has been exaggerated) but make dumba$$es of politicians by turning them into rambling, barking dogs who resort to insults. Wonder why Putin's popularity is so high in Russia? The Russian people look at the US politicians acting like kids by insulting Putin and the media covering him, making documentaries on how powerful he is and exaggerating his influence in the elections. Reality is that Putin had little influence in US elections, Hilary was a terrible candidate and even i, as an Obama supporter, didn't want her to win. She ran a campaign about Trump, not about her and she was a hypocrite, claiming the other side went low when she presided over the nastiest and most expensive smearing campaing in history. Did Hilary even sell herself at all? The Podesta e-mails were not why she lost, this is a joke and Putin had little influence.

The US has done a tremendous job turning Putin into this mythical powerful man and the Russian people have never been prouder of their leader. Trump is being smart, he may be the only president smart enough to know how to disarm Putin, by praising him... this is a trick and it may work in getting Putin to do things the US wants. I guarantee you that Putin respects Trump more than he respected Obama, Bush or Hillary... Trump is being smart as f and you people don't even realize it. Trump is used to clever negotiating tactics from his business experience, something Obama was weak on.

BTW, 'The most powerful man in the world' is on on CNN tonight, 10pm EST... enjoy the US marketing machine, Putin can rely on US to help him become more popular.

 

,,

 

LIke bad science, your post about Trump and "Russian Interference" is based on cooked research.

 

Secretary of State Rex Tillerson appeared on television and made clear that Trump had repeatedly raised Russian meddling in the meeting. Then Tillerson said Trump decided to focus on "how do we move forward from something that may be an intractable disagreement at this point."

That statement was quickly followed by Foreign Minister Lavrov appearing on television to say that Putin had denied involvement, Trump said reports of meddling were exaggerated, and he accepted Putin's denials.

Tillerson's assessment of the conversation and Lavrov's are identical in their effect. In effect Trump accepted Putin's statements and said we should move forward. This is substantiated by Trump's own statement the previous day when he indicated that "reports of meddling were exaggerated."

On Thursday, Trump said,"I think it was Russia but I think it was probably other people and or countries. I see nothing wrong with that statement. Nobody really knows. Nobody really knows for sure." Clearly, that indicates that Trump thinks the reports are exaggerated.

Conclusion: Trump accepted Putin's denials because the two were on the same page.

Trump is in over his head at the G20.

 

This is known as creative writing. That is a fervent imagination you have, and you can't substantiate a bit of it. You are very sympathetic to the Russian position. A number of Trump fans are. What you are saying is that it is perfectly okay for Russia to interfere in our election because everyone else is doing it. What a fantasy.

You are going way out on a limb to protect mother Russia.

Right, if Russia can't do it, than neither can anyone else, including the American government and American businesses. To hell with the First Amendment, right? So goes the thinking of a Russian sympathizer. "Never hid the fact I voted for Trump, don't plan to do so in the future." As can be seen from his G20 meeting with Putin and his comment the previous day, Trump is enchanted with Russia, too.

 

Care to explain what you meant by that?

 

Mostly what you said had very little to do with what I have said about Putin. I have dealt with Putin's relationship to Trump. You talked about this "mythical powerful man." Your thoughts were eerily similar to the Russian propaganda playbook. The Russian people have never been prouder of their leader. Is that on page one?

I missed the CNN program. The subject matter was alien to my point of view concerning Putin.

Then you said, "Trump is being smart, he may be the only president smart enough to know how to disarm Putin, by praising him... this is a trick and it may work in getting Putin to do things the US wants. I guarantee you that Putin respects Trump ..."

You can't be serious? Is this wishful thinking on your part. If Trump is so smart, why has he dissed nearly every EU leader? Putin sees that Trump can't get along with his allies. Britain is our most reliable ally in Europe. Trump's approval rating in Britain is 18%. When Putin sees Trump's poor relations with America's allies, that gives him an advantage. And you think this is smart?

Actually, we know that Trump is very sympathetic towards Russia. It appears you are, too. We know a large percentage of Trump supporters are Russian sympathizers. It is only natural that you would think Trump is smart. He sides with mother Russia.

 

Right, and gas leaks killed thousands of Soviet citizens?

 

They don't care because there isn't a good reason to care. It doesn't seem so crazy to save our military for when it matters. If Assad bothers you so much, why don't you join the fighting yourself instead of complaining about other people's sons and daughters not being sent to die?

 

I just realized something. I said you defended Trump. I was wrong. It is not so much that you are defending Trump. You are defending Russia, and I have noticed that you "like" other posters who are also somewhat effective in defending Russia.

That explains a lot. It seems there are a larger number of Russian sympathizers on this forum.

 

Also, Trump supporters are not well-informed. Many are not even aware of the Ukraine invasion or they simply don't care. The same could be said of the Syrian civil war. Many don't even know the U.S. is at war with Russia there, or, if they are vaguely aware, they don't care about that either. In fact, they don't much care about any domestic or foreign issue. Read their comments. You will see what I mean.

It seems I hit pretty close to the truth.

Your name suits you.

 

Checkmate.