The West fears Russia is about to attack Ukraine. But that's not the way Russians are seeing it on T

Beautiful mantra. It is like a song - for 8 years it has been helping to build and live.

Nobody denied "polite people". They saved the Crimea from bloodshed by their presence.

 

My German friends tell that it ISN'T 'that big a deal'. They tell me that Europeans see this as a kind of family 'squabble', between 'cousins' (Russia and Ukraine) that has been going on since the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991.

They laugh and point out that we Americans really know so little about history... and they may be right.

They also say it looks to Europeans that Biden just wants to draw attention away from our border problem with the ongoing 'invasion' of migrants... and I'm SURE they're right about that if nothing else.

 

Seems somebody is grasping today. The Russians referred to the 'borderlands', in other words, the 'boondocks' or 'frontier' as ukraina, generally referring to regions where the Cossacks lived within Russian territory bordering the Tartar Territory AKA the Ottoman Empire.

What's next? Will Kievan Rus magically turn into "Kyivan Ukraina"? See I can make up stuff too out of thin air.

The Cossacks, the real Ukrainians if there were to be 'Ukrainians', are from the South Central area of present day 'Ukraine'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Ukraine

 

You are point blank denying facts at this point.

Again, entire Russian establishment denied they existed till Pootin started giving awards. The “polite people” were Russian mercenaries.

 

Grasping for straws?

 

And I'd also like to note that throughout Russian history, the Cossacks fought alongside the Russians in defending against multiple Polish invasions. Although the Cossacks despised the Bolsheviks, they hated the Nazis more, and fought against the Nazis in WW2.

^^^^^ This is the complete opposite to the current day 'Ukrainians' mindset in Kiev. The Cossacks were Ukrainian, the genocidal maniacs, the Banderites, currently in Kiev are not.

 

The facts are precisely that this Ukraine has been killing people in "its" Donbas for 8 years. And it is Ukraine that wants the closure of "Nord Stream 2". And for some reason Agerssor is only Russia.

Who told you that? Nobody denied. They had no identifying emblems. Because they were called "Polite people" - a simple uncertainty. These were not mercenaries, but regular troops. They could not wear Russian symbols until Crimea voted to join Russia. These peacekeepers saved many lives simply by their presence, never firing a shot. This is not aggression, but a simple precaution.

 

Putin's own actions are creating the very situation he claims to be against.
Invading Ukraine backfired on Putin once. Why is he threatening to do it again?

Russia has only pushed its neighbor to embrace the West more — exactly what Putin says he’s afraid of

By John SipherJanuary 28, 2022

". . . But while it may look like Putin is in charge now, his actions threaten to imperil the very things he claims to care about. His belligerence and risk-taking could easily lead to exactly what Russia is trying to head off: an increased U.S. presence in Europe, a strengthened and re-energized NATO, and a forever Western-oriented Ukraine. An invasion might even jeopardize what matters most to Putin: political power and control at home. . . ."

 

Your dear leader did:

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...tin-says-those-arent-russian-forces-in-crimea

So, you admit that Pootin sent regular forces (crossed the border) into a sovereign country, and openly lied about it.
Thanks for agreeing that Russia is an aggressor that uses questionable strategies, officially lies, and refuses to take responsibility for its actions. This also means that they commit war crimes and point their fingers on the other side.

 

Putin's lies are a weak foundation for Russia's continuing action.

Putin’s case for invading Ukraine rests on phony grievances and ancient myths
The Russian leader doesn’t want to believe Ukraine exists. But that’s not how modern nations work.
By Timothy SnyderJanuary 28, 2022


". . . Russian propaganda depends upon myths and counterfactuals, all spun in the direction of Russian greatness and innocence. Putin writes that when the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, the principle for deciding the borders of its constituent republics should have been: “Take what you brought with you.” In history as it actually happened, however, it was the Russian republic of the U.S.S.R. that brought about the end of the Soviet Union. The whole point was to liberate Russia from what was then understood to be the burden of supporting the periphery. Boris Yeltsin, the man who achieved this, accepted the borders of the Soviet Russian republic as Russia’s. As Yeltsin’s handpicked successor, Putin knows all this very well. Today he is dreaming of the Russian Empire that the Bolsheviks destroyed. But it “brought” nothing to the U.S.S.R. It no longer existed. And it was never a Russian nation-state. Its dynasty and much of its elite was of non-Russian origin; most of its population spoke languages other than Russian, and few of those who did speak Russian would have known what a nation was before the Bolsheviks made their revolution in 1917. . . .

When Russian leaders claim today that NATO has betrayed Russia, they tap that same mythical vein of violated innocence. On May 27, 1997, Russia signed the NATO-Russia Founding Act. It was acknowledged by all parties at the time that NATO would expand and was open to “all emerging European democracies.” Just four days later, Russia signed a treaty with Ukraine, recognizing its borders. Moscow may disapprove when former Warsaw Pact members or former Soviet republics apply to join NATO, but such desires are not a result of Western iniquity or broken promises. They are a result of Soviet and then Russian behavior. NATO membership was not popular in Ukraine until Russia invaded the country in 2014. Not surprisingly, most Ukrainians these days wish their country belonged to a powerful defensive alliance. . . . "

 

Vladolf Puttie has talked himself into a corner....he needs to act now since

1) He invades....casualties are through the roof on both sides....hard security threat in Europe...with a strong possibility of spillover into Nato states....creating even more security issues....Putinka regime is finished and he himself is taken out.

2) He backs off....looks like a chump, knives come out big time, Putinka regime is finished.

Neither option looks good for him at the moment.

Well see after Winter Olympics and his chat with Xi....if the Chinos aren't willing to fully support Putinka....who knows.

 

where does it retreat? He did not attack What kind of fantasy?

 

If Putin stands down from his current threatening posture and returns to the status quo ante with all his demands unmet then he will have confirmed and accelerated Ukraine's turn to the West, and I would expect to see Putin overthrown within a year.

 

I can't say, one way or the other where my flour actually comes from. It's Pillsbury Gold Medal all-purpose flour, distributed from Minneapolis. My guess is that Pillsbury, along with nearly every other company in America, gets raw product from where ever they can buy it at the best price. And, not being familiar with the flour market, I have no idea where that would be at any one given time.

I didn't know this flour came from one of America's premier liberal quagmires -- Minneapolis -- which elects creeps like Ilhan Omar! I'll never buy it again, because there are plenty other brands around that are located in a much better place than that, as far as I'm concerned. Thanks for drawing my attention to it.

 

I lived in the US for 20+ years, drove across half of the North American continent, and have never seen a wheat field. In Ukraine they are everywhere! Now that you realize it, think about the crime Russians committed against Ukraine in 1930s during Holodomor. Ukrainian bread went to cities or sold abroad, while Ukrainians were left with no other options but to cook tree bark. That’s why they don’t want back to Russia.

 

I googled wheat production and the list I saw said China, the U. S., Canada, and Russia are the biggest ones, and Ukraine was not listed among the largest of them. Just sayin'....

Here's a site that shows the breakout within the U. S.:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/190376/top-us-states-in-wheat-production/

 

Did you compare the size of the territory? Only France is a country with similar geographic size that produces more, the rest are far behind.

Here, all countries that produce more than Ukraine, except for France, are significantly larger than Ukraine.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/wheat-production-by-country

They have very good soil, all vegetables that are grown there taste 100 times better. As I said, in terms of food production, Ukraine punches way above its weight.

 

Please allow me to assist.
Wheat Production by Country 2021 - World Population Review

1. China (134.3 million metric tons)
2. India (98.5 million metric tons)
3. Russia (85.9 million metric tons)
4. United States (47.3 million metric tons)
5. France (36.9 million metric tons)
6. Australia (31.8 million metric tons)
7. Canada (30 million metric tons)
8. Pakistan (26.7 million metric tons)
9. Ukraine (26.2 million metric tons)
10. Germany (24.5 million metric tons)

 

I had no idea that China is number #1. And. I didn't realize Germany is in the top 10....

 

Why are you repeating this? The path does not threaten anyone and does not pull any troops. You think it's not thinking. These forces are clearly not enough to fight in Ukraine. Quite enough to protect the Donbass.

Poor Ukrainians. And now Putin gave them gas-omor. Will we cry? And you know that there was also a famine in Russia at that time, and on this occasion I also do not want to return to the USSR. Nobody called Ukraine back. Were legally gone in 1991.

 

Interesting. When you say the Banderites are in Kiev, in what capacity?

 

Did you know that some captured Soviet Ukrainians switched sides and served as guards in Nazi extermination camps? People have this false notion that everyone in Ukraine are victims or angels but it's just not so.

Apparently they now celebrate Stepan Bandera's birthday as a national holiday in Ukraine. Bandera was a well known Nazi collaborator:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera



Birthday demonstration in Maidan Square:


Erected in 2014:


Notice the building lit in red. Red and black was Stepan's flag. Of course the Nazis also used red and black w/white

Another:

Another:

Even got his own official stamps:

Not fringe when thousands show up to march:


Birthday march 3 weeks ago:


So my question to you is, do you think it would be appropriate for the U.S. erect and worship statues of Hitler? It's basically the same as Bandera in Ukraine. Do we put Hitler on stamps? Do we have a self-professed Neo-nazi battalion in the military like they do? (AZOV)

Let that sink in and think about your tax dollars going to support this bovine excrement.

BTW, during the 2014 Coup, there was no shortage of Bandera red and black flags at Maidan Square.

 

Lie.

Azov was a nationalist group that was defending Ukraine against Russians. You paint them as nazis because they don’t want Russians to take over Ukraine. Remember, it was Russians distributing leaflets demanding Jews to register.

So what? People are free to protest peacefully, I know Russians aren’t used to it, but not everyone is from Russia. Germany and the Turks were horrified by Vlad Dracula and publicly smeared him as a brutal blood thirsty barbarian, yet, to this day, he is a national hero in Romania for him defending his homeland against the invaders.

 

It has to be remembered that in WWII Ukraine was fighting against Stalin

 

Not really.
Most of Ukraine was fighting on the USSR side, but the western part of Ukraine that was added after partitioning of Poland in 1939 did resist soviets because to them the USSR was a country that invaded along with nazis. To them USSR was one of two countries that destroyed the country they were born in - Poland. So, it’s no wonder there was resistance to Russian rule in western Ukraine. Communists who believed they have the support of the common folk write off the resistance as a marginal Russophobe nazi movement, even though most of those people could be considered fighters for Ukrainian independence.

Russia was the biggest nazi collaborator - look up Ribbentrop-Molotov agreement.