Trump vows to punish doctors, hospitals that provide gender-affirming care to transgender minors

This is most likely an empty threat since the federal government lacks the authority to impose such a ban on the states.

That said, I would certainly support an amendment the Constitution banning such procedures for those under 18. The idea that someone else is ultimately (by this I mean legally) going to decide whether a child's reproductive organs are literally, irreversibly carved from their body (or chemically destroyed in place) is, IMO, barbaric.

Anyone who supports these procedures on children really needs their head examined as there is no defending it.

 

What about the codification of Roe v Wade? Does the federal government lack the authority to impose such a law?

 

If you mean does the federal government lack the authority to impose abortion law on the states, yes, in my opinion, they absolutely lack that authority.

 

Sex is a contract with another. We usually have age of consent laws to stop older people pressuring younger people into having sex with them. We generally speaking wouldn't incarcerate thirteen year olds for having sex with each other. We'd rarely consider that a legal offense. We wouldn't sanction it and would probably try to prevent it from happening again but it's going to happen because humans develop their sexuality usually around twelve or thirteen and it's a very powerful force they are learning to reckon with.

I have zero knowledge on the subject but I imagine telling a trans person not to have those feelings is like asking a physically mature 13 year old not to masturbate. You can yell at them as much as you like but they're still going to do it anyway. It's the dichotomy of trying to tell someone of a certain age not to do or to feel something when their body is screaming the opposite at them. That we know that and have age of consent laws to prevent those feelings being taken advantage of is not at odds with understanding that a trans person can have a genuine gender dysphoria (just as a young person can have genuine sexual feelings) before they reach that age of consent.

So then the first question is how do we treat that dysphoria to make the person as comfortable as possible. I don't think yelling "don't be trans" is going to cut it in that instance.

So in that context, what would your answer be?

 

Yeah, so it's far from a certainty then isn't it. Otherwise, if it WAS a certainty that the federal government does not have such power to make such laws, you wouldn't have Republicans out there talking about a federal abortion ban, and you wouldn't have Democrats out there talking about codifying Roe v Wade in federal law.

 

Did he even say that word "ban?" It seems that it's more removing funding for health programs, and making it so that States are violating federal health guidelines. Therefore, it would seem that idea is that States will be free to continue the practice, but at significant cost to such States.

 

Republicans can say what they want. The Federal government lacks the authority to make abortion laws for those states, and it doesn't matter whether those laws lean pro or anti-choice.

 

Well sure but that's irrelevant to the point, which is simply that kids cannot consent.

By the way, you said that "we generally speaking wouldn't incarcerate thirteen year olds for having sex with each other." So it DOES happen? WTF?

Sure, but 'trans feelings' is not the subject of this thread.

What do you mean "to prevent those feelings being taken advantage of?"

It would seem that if a boy told his parents that he is a girl, the parents should gently explain that they are in fact not a girl, but rather a boy.

 

Why are you only referring to Republicans in reply to my post in which I talked about both Republicans and Democrats?

 

Nope. That's not going to work.

No abortion law is meaningful unless it answers a fundamental question: what is the legal definition of a human life with a basic right to life?

Roe, quite arbitrarily, set that at viability. Some Republicans would set that point earlier, even at conception. The problem is this: nowhere in the Constitution is the authority to define a national, legal definition for human life granted to the federal government. And the 9th and 10th amendments are quite clear about powers and authorities not enumerated; they're beyond the scope of the federal government.

Trump would face the same problem with on ban radical forms of gender "therapy" on children. There's nothing in the Constitution that grants them authority to overrule a duly elected state legislature on the matter. (Though if you think there is, I'm all ears; as I said above, I'd love to see these procedures to be banned on children.)

 

Because that is what I chose to do.

 

Well first there's no such thing as hospitals providing gender affirming care this isn't a medical thing. Since gender is nothing but pronouns you can't surgically remove or implant pronouns so there's nothing in the hospital can do to affirm gender.

So what's happening here is Donald Trump vows to punish doctor to sexually abuse minors.

That's reason enough to vote for him I hope he wins.

 

Okay, well just as long as you know that it applies equally to Democrats who want to codify Roe v Wade. They have the same chance passing that as the Republicans do with passing a national abortion ban.

 

Well no but in the past people, even very young people have been horribly treated up to the point of lynching for having, or even allegedly having, sex with someone similarly underaged, usually compounded with that person being outside their class, race or socio-economic status. I'm sure you know that?

Well it is if you're threatening to use the force of law to punish the very people trained to help them cope with those feelings.

To stop older people having their way with younger kids. It's not an exact science but general age of consent laws are the best we've been able to come up with to address that. The thing is if we were literally to follow "Natural Law", we'd all start breeding when we were 12 or so. We can't stop underage kids having sexual feelings but we can stop older people exploiting that. Did I really have to explain that to you?

But if the boy genuinely and persistently feels he IS a girl then that won't help.

Nearly every accredited medical association in America and in many other places around the globe believe transgenderism is a thing. They even do so in Iran.

The politicians (like Trump in this case) are doing this as a cynical attempt to win votes not because they actually care about trans people. I even saw a politician pushing one of these bills admit he'd never even met or spoken with a trans person. There's something very ignorant or just downright mean about that.

 

You appear to have missed where I asked: "did he even say the word "ban?"

 

You made that number up. The last thing we should focus upon.

 

Actually I did not. Then again, I don't live in the US.

People who are trained to pump kids full of cross-sex hormones and puberty blockers? People who are trained to chop off boys' penises and girls' breasts? THOSE animals? Yes, absolutely they should be punished. Preferably the death penalty.

At what age would a child have to be in order for you to take such a claim seriously? Maybe you have kids yourself, which will make you especially qualified to answer.

As in, the condition called gender dysphoria?

That's your assessment. It turns out that some of us believe that pumping kids full of cross-sex hormones and puberty blockers and chopping off their penises and breasts, is not a great thing to do to them. And we believe that kids should be protected from that because we care about kids.

 

Physical treatment for a physical condition. As opposed to trying to treat a mental condition with physical treatment.

 

we were talking about elective surgery to cosmetically repair genital or breast

 

I would prefer DeSantis over Trump, even though DeSantis is bad for the country, not as bad as Trump

 

that law would not force people to have or not have children, it allows them to choose for themselves

republicans want Government to decide for you

 

I'm sure similar things have happened in other countries throughout history. Maybe even in Australia.

Well I'm of the opinion that surgical intervention shouldn't come until after 18 but you want to kill Doctors for giving kids hormones and puberty blockers in accordance with the very medical associations in whose practice they've been trained?

What makes you think you know better than they do? How many trans kids have you ever had a conversation with?

I have one adult child in his 30s and two young grandchildren. I think I'd start listening to them at whatever age they decided to tell me. As I said, I'm no expert but I'm betting there are certain patterns a professional can detect that would differentiate a child with a purely passing notion from someone with a real dysphoria who is most likely to end up being transsexual. I doubt saying: "no just don't be trans" is going to help anymore than saying "no just don't be gay" would.

Obviously.

Yes it is and I mostly think I'm right about that.

You can believe whatever you like but, again, have you ever spoken with a trans kid? I haven't so I don't feel qualified to say. That said I've read about many that have and I'd rather listen to them than people who think executing medical professionals is any kind of preferable option.

 

you ask for my opinion, I give it, then you say but that is not the law, I tell you about our laws, then you start asking for my opinion again as if I did not give it already, round and round we go

 

And that is related to gender affirming care how exactly?

 

DeSantis is bad for the country in what way?