Was Jesus a rapist?

I really like your political views, but this post is as absurd as the 4horseman posts on Islam. There is documented records by the Egyptians confirming that they crucified Jesus. 4horseman tries to create hate with his posts. Please don't be like him. Ugly is ugly.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha#Marriage_to_Muhammad

According to the traditional sources, Aisha was six or seven years old when she was betrothed to Muhammad and nine when the marriage was consummated.[6][8][9] American historian Denise Spellberg states that "these specific references to the bride's age reinforce Aisha's pre-menarcheal status and, implicitly, her virginity."[8] This issue of her virginity was of great importance to those who supported Aisha's position in the debate of the succession to Muhammad. These supporters considered that as Muhammad's only virgin wife, Aisha was divinely intended for him, and therefore the most credible regarding the debate.[10]
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Age at marriage
See also: Criticism of Muhammad#Aisha and Child marriage

Aisha stayed in her parents' home for several years until she joined Muhammad and the marriage was consummated when she was nine.[6][8][9][11][12][13] However, al-Tabari records that she was ten.[8] The sources do not offer much more information about Aisha's childhood years, but mention that after the wedding, she continued to play with her toys, and that Muhammad entered into the spirit of these games.[14]

 

The chances that Mohammad was an immoral pedophile (or at least THE QUR'AN IS INCREDIBLY WRONG by saying he's the ultimate role model for all times is wrong) is not 100%...but it's probably 80-90%. So Muslims need to ask themselves "do I stick with a belief system that has an 80-90% chance of actually believing that a pedophile is the most moral man of all time, or do I become a modern Secular Humanist where there's basically a 0% chance of that?"
The choice is clear to a moral person. A moral person plays the odds.

 

Do you have a link to these "Egyptian documents"? It seems a little far-fetched, since it happened elsewhere, and Egyptian records have no references to the Plagues, or the Exodus, which supposedly happened to them.

 

A moral person does no such thing. Neither does a moral person impose present moral standards on the alleged actions of historical/mythical figures.

 

That has been said before and is an out right lie. Prove to me that the Bible approves of rape.

The punishment for raping a woman that is engaged back then in Israel was death.


Deuteronomy 22:25 (HCSB)
25 But if the man encounters the engaged woman in the open country, and he seizes and rapes her, only the man who raped her must die.

But a man that rapes a virgin that is not engaged is that he must marry her and take care of her for all his life. I don't see how that would be justifying rape.

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 (HCSB)
28 If a man encounters a young woman, a virgin who is not engaged, takes hold of her and rapes her, and they are discovered,
29 the man who raped her must give the young woman’s father 50 silver [shekels], and she must become his wife because he violated her. He cannot divorce her as long as he lives.

Those were the laws in House of Israel at that time. What do you think a woman not living in Israel back then fared? We are talking about Nations that scarified their own children which were forbidden in Israel.

Deuteronomy 18:10 (ASV)
10 There shall not be found with thee any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, one that useth divination, one that practiseth augury, or an enchanter, or a sorcerer,

Whether you like it or not the Nation of Israel was the most just of all the other Nations in the world at its height.

 

Please read the stuff below, and then go read a book by a modern Secular Humanist, say, Sam Harris, then come back and tell us which one is more moral. Thanks.



RAPE IN THE BIBLE:

Rape is one of the most heinous crimes imaginable. Yet few people know that the Bible often condones and even approves of rape. How anyone can get their moral guidance from a book that allows rape escapes me. Perhaps they have been lied to about the Bible and carefully detoured around all the nasty stuff in the Bible.
So grab your Bibles and follow along as I show you all the nasty rapes that your priests and preachers don't want to tell you about. Note that in many places in the Bible there are references to "taking a wife". Don't be fooled into thinking that these were voluntary marriages. This first quote clearly shows that murder and force were used to "take" these wives.

1) Murder, rape, and pillage at Jabesh-gilead (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)
So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.
The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse."
Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.
Obviously these women were repeatedly raped. These sick bastards killed and raped an entire town and then wanted more virgins, so they hid beside the road to kidnap and rape some more. How can anyone see this as anything but evil?

2) Murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)
They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.
Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.
Clearly Moses and God approves of rape of virgins.

3) More Murder Rape and Pillage (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.
What kind of God approves of murder, rape, and slavery?

4) Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: God.

5) Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.
It is clear that God doesn't give a (*)(*)(*)(*) about the rape victim. He is only concerned about the violation of another mans "property".

6) David's Punishment - Polygamy, Rape, Baby Killing, and God's "Forgiveness" (2 Samuel 12:11-14 NAB)
Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'
Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die." [The child dies seven days later.]
This has got to be one of the sickest quotes of the Bible. God himself brings the completely innocent rape victims to the rapist. What kind of pathetic loser would do something so evil? And then he kills a child! This is sick, really sick!

7) Rape of Female Captives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)
"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."
Once again God approves of forcible rape.

8 ) Rape and the Spoils of War (Judges 5:30 NAB)
They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera's spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil. (Judges 5:30 NAB)

9) Sex Slaves (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

10) God Assists Rape and Plunder (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)
Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)
http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm

 

THEN WILL YOU SAY THAT QURAN 33:21 IS DEAD WRONG, because it says that Mohammad is the best role model for ALL TIME!?

 

Another atheist selectively quotes the Bible and blandly ripes off propoganda from a web site to call innocent people rapists.

Why rebut another zealot wishing only denouce people, innocent people, as rapists? I do appreciate yet another aheist, blandly ripping off content from - you guessed it - and atheist web site, completely abandoning context to specifically accuse every Christian of supporting rape, and blindly drinkng the cool aid of atheist propoganda.

Not surprised to see WHO dredged up a old forgetten thread to avoid the charge of flame bait ... becaue some other atheist belindly did it first.

 

Jesus was the product of rape. The Holy Ghost impregnated Mary. I don't recall her giving consent.

 

THen you have not read the Bible and are just another in a long line of ignorant, malacious atheists who think ignorant combined with deliberate inflammatory incivility is acceptable.

World lest respected religion = atheism. If you are wondering why, please ask yourself why someone has to educated a malcontent about the basics of a religion he not only rejects but is unabashedly insulting - and thinks that it is good.

Really do love this superior atheist moral code that justifies antics like this.

 

If it was REALLY "breathed on by god", as it claims, then I seriously doubt people could quote such horrific passages in the first place, as they wouldn't have made it into the book in such huge numbers!

I'm not saying Christians are rapists, as such....only saying that they could be more moral if they move to modern Secular Humanism, for example, because MSH has no approval of rape in, say, Dawkin's or Harris' writings.

 

Your post was too long so I had to cut it.


If you noticed that in all of those verses with the exception of Deuteronomy 22:28-29 that you quote no where rape is mentioned. It's interesting that people from the Countries that have enriched themselves from the backs of African slaves are the same one that is passing judgment on the Bible, which is a record of how the society was back then. The day is coming when this Country will be judged at least as hard by what it has done. What are you doing against the evils that your Country is doing in your name? So before you run to make judgment about something that you don't understand take a look at your own Country and the countless injustices that it has done and is still doing.

 

It’s interesting that you could not find anything in the New Testament that you could twist though.

 

Approval of slavery, saying that Jews (etc.) a so disgusting that they deserve to go to hell (Nazi-like supremacism), approval of torture, acceptance of the old laws (Mat 5:17-19), Jesus saying he actually wanted to split up families, mal-treatment of women, Jesus saying he was here only to help the Israelites, Jesus not renouncing the Genesis story, lack of priorities, lack of scientific-method, inconsistencies, not speaking out against killing gays, etc. Lots of stuff. I could go on all day.

So the Bible that YOU use only contains the New Testament, or does it also contain the Old Testament too, and you're being hypocritical (of offense.)

 

Good point. The USA has not been perfect, that's for sure. We had horrific slavery (because it's approved in the New and Old Testaments, slave owners referred to it to justify it). We've mis-treated women, which is approved by the Bible. We've hurt gays, that's in there as well.
Had the country always (just say) consisted of modern Secular Humanists (with today's MSH teachings), then this country would have been FAR AND AWAY the best country to have ever existed, period. But religion has held it's moral and scientific progress back. Look, Christians are so morally-challenged that they can't even remove parts of the OLD part of the book that says to slaughter Elton John, Ellen, Rosie, Anderson Cooper, Neil Patrick Harris, that guy who plays Magneto and Gandelf, etc.

 

You are not in a position to know what Jesus meant......the Bible was not written for unbelievers. You would do well to hold your government accountable for the injustices that it has committed.....what are you doing about that? I suspect you are doing nothing about that.

 

Which came first, planes flown into NY, or my attitude?

The attacks on America came first. The USS Stark, the Marine bombing in Lebanon, the first NYC bombings, 9/11, the embassy attacks in Africa, the attacks in Europe. I used to believe the rhetoric about "peaceful Islam" until now. Enough is enough.

And you prove my point. Muslims are not civilized, they simply murder on the pretext of someone slandering Islam. They don't even keep up the pretense of slander by murdering the one who insults them, they murder whoever is convenient.

Take your thin sophomoric attitude of tolerance to someone else. You are a gullible fool.

 

In other words there's SO MUCH RAPE in the Bible that it likely wouldn't have even FIT into one post! Seriously, I had a bit longer post (ok, extra wording that I was going to add) that took that original post to 10034 characters but it said it could only accept 10000! Wow.

Now, below, if I have enough space, I'm not really sure, I'm going to list the ENTIRE list of passages accepting rape from the modern Secular Humanist texts of Dawkins, Harris and Dennet, combined. I assume that this will be a lot to read, like the Biblical references to rape, so just bare with me. I'll put it into brackets ("[") so you know when it actually begins and actually ends. Ok, here goes:
[]


Wow, 0 characters, whereas the bible's was THOUSANDS, hmmmmm. Maybe one approves of rape way more than the other, I don't know. So that would mean that one is far more moral than the other....

 

The kind of slavery that existed in the U.S is not the kind that existed in the time of the Old Testament. Slaves were not considered not human beings as African/blacks were considered in the U.S. They were not lynched, no separate drinking fountain and so on. A slave in Old Testament times could become a leader and a king. A slave in the U.S would still be viewed as sub-human no matter if he was able to buy his freedom and he was always in jeopardy of becoming a slave even after he bought his freedom, because the word of a black man had not value to whites. So don't try to compare the inhuman treatment of slaves in Old Testament times with the kind that existed in the U.S, because you are not going to find the things that were done to blacks in the U.S being done to slaves in the Old Testament.

The Bible nowhere condones the mistreatment of woman......people use their own predigist and hate to justify the evil that they do.

 

If they were MORAL then they would have indeed written it for everybody, so that EVERYBODY would have a fighting chance to get to paradise and avoid the horrific torture that only can be achieved by believing in Jesus' magic. It's therefore like some elitist supremacist country club where they don't really give a hoot about "non-members". Well, I clearly don't want be part of an immoral elitist snobby belief system like that. I prefer modern Secular Humanism, which, arguably, tries to write it's teachings to everybody, at least arguably.

 

Wow. Well I guess I do believe in reincarnation now, because obviously Nazi "big-lie" proponent (he's seen as the world's #1 propagandist of all time) Joseph Goebbels has reincarnated, and is on this very forum. YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME, it's full of mistreatment! If you were Muslim I'd call "taqiyya" on you.

Can someone ELSE please take this one (Durandal (PBUH), etc.), because I'm heading to the emergency room right now because my jaw dropped and hit the floor with such veracity (after I read your post) that I may need surgery. I'm sure you're well-intended, and a nice person, but I'm afraid you aren't being forthright about the Bible.

Also, do you believe that the QUR'AN also does not discriminate against women? Yes or no?

 

Just like there is so much slavery going on in the U.S it’s not even considered slavery. Do you realize that slavery was abolished excepting in prison......that was the only place that they made an expectation. And during slavery, virtually no blacks were in prison until after slavery outside of prison was made illegal.

There is nothing you can show me in the Bible where it justifies slavery......I have read and studied the Bible more times than I can remember.

 

Only presumptuous people claim that the Bible supports the mistreatment of women. But don't forget that your Country does that every day, and what are you doing about that? Again…..nothing….just pointing finger somewhere else as if that’s makes you better than those you are pointing finger at.

 

That's like saying if teachers knew how to teach they would teach those who don't go to school. But you are so screwed up about the Bible it would take too much time addressing them all......I'll let you stew in your own haughty ignorance.