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What To Do About The Long-Term Implications of Automation

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Meta777, Oct 22, 2017.

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  1. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Well, I hope it focuses us on what's important to know about where we are going.

    The number of disappearing jobs projected by that chart is staggering.

    That is a LOT of chairs to be gone when the music stops.

    We know from the last election how painful it is for sectors to be left behind. Yet we're not paying attention to how many we're getting ready to leave behind in the relatively near future.
     
    WillReadmore, Jun 14, 2018
    #976
  2. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Should I write my legislators?
     
    danielpalos, Jun 14, 2018
    #977
  3. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, you should.

    Informal votes/opinion polls are great for giving politicians a good idea of what large groups or segments of the population are thinking. Letters from individuals on the other hand, while not as useful for figuring out the overall pulse of a broader group, are great for giving politicians more personalized views into the more intimate reasoning and feelings feeding into at least some of those broader statistics.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jun 14, 2018
    #978
  4. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Given that we have courts, why do we need legislation?
     
    Longshot, Jun 14, 2018
    #979
  5. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah, hopefully.

    BTW, there was actually an additional option that touched on education, if only briefly. And I'm a little ashamed I didn't remember to mention it before, because of all things, it happens to be the option that I submitted myself! Option A.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jun 14, 2018
    #980
    WillReadmore likes this.
  6. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh c'mon,...don't start that again.
    It doesn't have anything at all to do with this thread's topic...

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jun 14, 2018
    #981
  7. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Longshot, Jun 14, 2018
    #982
  8. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    i only have one vote.
     
    danielpalos, Jun 14, 2018
    #983
  9. YourBrainIsGod

    YourBrainIsGod Well-Known Member

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    Trying to rethink this a bit.

    What are humans irreplaceable for? Art, the first thought that comes to mind. Though even that has found its way to formulaic algorithms. Design? An AI surely will come to be capable of working out our design flaws, depending on the nature of AI. If it only has the human science and experience to learn from, at least at first, how different would it be apart from computing power, will new ideas be imagined?

    This is a lot of intangible questions, we can’t all be artists, then artists have no merit. Possibly some duties are best left to the robots, the problem lies in who profits. The entire humanity, or a proper selection of investors? We may all say the former, but the way we’re running shows that latter.

    Humans are capable of greatly rethinking there place and how it functions, but a revolution is inescapable for this to happen. A mass robotic labor army is something new in concept, for humanity to exist as it does, the wealth of production must spread. Now we’re breaking our rules and principals of what we think. Capitalism and automation can’t co-exist.
     
    YourBrainIsGod, Jun 14, 2018
    #984
    Meta777 likes this.
  10. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    What do you mean?
    What are you trying to get at?

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jun 15, 2018
    #985
  11. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    AIs are already on the verge of outclassing humans when it comes to design. Through focusing on optimization of a few key parameters, they can come up with designs for things that a human would never ever think of. Designs that a human looks at and says, no way that won't work...its impossible. Then it gets built, and it turns out that the AI was smarter than anyone thought. Its a field known as generative design AI. Its in its early stages as of now, but it wont be long before these AIs are designing all our cars, aircraft, buildings, and what-have-you, optimizing them for cost weight strength speed, etc.

    [​IMG]

    With art on the other hand, I'd actually say that AI is a bit further off from being able to surpass humans or even match them. Sure, AI can generate images, but art is sort of a special thing, subjective in nature, and there is something uniquely human about the art that people create which in part adds to its appeal. That is to say, AI can create what we might justifiably refer to as art today, but that particular type of art is unique to the AI while art created by humans is unique to humans. The flaws which humans incorporate into their pieces gives it a unique charm. Additionally, human pieces don't necessarily have to follow any sort of logic, which gives humans a wider scope of possibility when it comes to creating in a space where logic isn't needed. AI may be able to imitate and emulate our works of course, it may also be able to create new creations with its own algorithmic brand of symmetry,
    but I don't see AI truly catching up to us humans on an artistic level any time soon if ever at all.

    You're definitely asking the right questions here. And I agree with most of what you said,
    though I don't believe its impossible for Capitalism and Advanced Automation to coexist. Certainly, capitalism as we know it today would need to change a bit, if we don't want the automation to lead to mass swaths of the population being converted into beggars, but it should be possible for minor changes to be made to our economic system in a way that solves the problem of things like automation-induced job loss while still maintaining our core capitalistic structure. I believe that something like the Four-Phased Approach would achieve this goal well. At least that's my view on what the best option is. BTW, don't forget to vote for what you think is the best option.
    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...-long-term-implications-of-automation.534062/

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jun 15, 2018
    #986
  12. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    why should any politician pay any attention to me, if it will require substantial effort on their part, for Only one vote.
     
    danielpalos, Jun 15, 2018
    #987
  13. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Politicians pay attention to the people because they typically like their jobs and want to keep them. Focusing on every single individual who sends a letter though is of course difficult, even impractical. But politicians are much more likely to pay attention to and be responsive towards the aggregate views of people overall or to the views of larger organized chunks.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jun 15, 2018
    #988
  14. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    the entire right wing is against me on this; and they can resort to the affirmative action of the franchise.
     
    danielpalos, Jun 15, 2018
    #989
  15. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    ?? :confusion: ??
     
    Meta777, Jun 15, 2018
    #990
  16. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Meta777, Jun 15, 2018
    #991
  17. YourBrainIsGod

    YourBrainIsGod Well-Known Member

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    The non-coexistence is more for effect, of course if we want to deconstruct economic philosophies they can be capatable with varying constructs. Capitalism, as we currently understand it, holds aspects of human civilization that are rather universal, therefore nearly meaningless in using an all encompassing definition. Though, if we are to look at the core principal of the protection of capital, this is very destructive in the realm of automation, and creates a massive amount of power to hold. I wouldn’t want to go to a bar being served by robots, but what if this became my only option? Maybe I want to drive my own car, but now it’s made illegal. We are already in the phase of ever merging corporate power, a machine in its own right, automation will only increase that grasp on the human economy.

    Much is made of the transition into robotic technology, but I find the more important aspect of inevitabilities to be who controls it. Should these patents be under public domain to cut out that inevitable stranglehold?

    There are plenty of jobs to make; new energy, our degrading infrastructure, and someone has to design these things. Certainly there isn’t a lack of important activities for people to do, and personally, I think people need to work, we become psychologically lost if we don’t.

    We’re already facing poor wages, complete with a “booming” economy — with robotic traders — how ironic. We’re clearly not ready for mass automation, society must change first. Maybe I’m a bit cynical, but I’ll hold my breath on that. Generally, in my heart, I believe in such a four phased approach, but the nature I see doesn’t show the tuna being ignored by the sharks.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
    YourBrainIsGod, Jun 25, 2018
    #992
  18. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Should we get, Constitutional, with them?
     
    danielpalos, Jun 27, 2018
    #993
  19. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Wow, this CGP Grey guy is a treasure trove of useful information.
    This other video that popped up in my feed the other day is great.



    Its almost as if he read through this very thread, or some of my past
    posts and just took all the stuff I took several pages trying to explain
    and stuck it into a short, nice, neat, explanatory 15 minute video...

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jun 28, 2018
    #994
  20. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Meta777, Jun 28, 2018
    #995
  21. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Meta777, Jun 29, 2018
    #996
  22. Antiduopolist

    Antiduopolist Well-Known Member

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    Incredibly important thread; excellent ideas.
     
    Antiduopolist, Nov 2, 2018
    #997
    Meta777 and Derideo_Te like this.
  23. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Those might be some good ideas. Or they might not be. I would encourage you to persuade individuals to join you in your endeavors. However, I would argue that it would be wrong to use force in order to achieve the ends you seek. The ends don't justify the means.
     
    Longshot, Nov 2, 2018
    #998
  24. I justsayin

    I justsayin Well-Known Member

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    Accept it.
     
    I justsayin, Nov 2, 2018
    #999
  25. Antiduopolist

    Antiduopolist Well-Known Member

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    I will NEVER use automated checkout!!!
     
    Antiduopolist, Nov 17, 2018
    #1000
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