Which will rule the West in 50 years? Islam or Marxism?

Thank you, I aim to please.

Regarding fascism and a police state. I wasn't thinking that it would have anything to do with marxism, but just the general trend in the US of the government getting more and more power over the individual. You know, like drones flying over the US spying on people, that the government wiretaps and monitor the internet and e mail, the patriot act. That stuff.

I think marxism and modern leftism will probably shrink in america due to its failure in europe, which they all can see. But not only for that, but because of backlash as you say. Modern leftism is pushing things on ordinary people a little too fast sometimes. If you want to cahnge the entire society you ought to do it slowly. Do it too fast and people will actually notice and get pissed off. That's one scenario that could happen in europe, and one that might happen in the US if it doesn't die by itself.

As for your economic policies, they have already changed very much since obama got elected. Obama is pushing the US to be more like europe in that sense. If I see things right it looks like that system will stay when obama goes out, and having thus changed your system for good. THe US isn't as capitalistic as it once was. It's more of a corporatist system in denial, wannabe european welfare state.

I don't really think mexicans pose any problem worth notice other than that of illegal immigration, which is inherently bad. Mexicans are mostly catholics and catholics are mostly socially conservative, so if anything they are a great boon for conservatism in america if only the GOP could market themselves better. Of couse, mexicans aren't that good on conservative economics, so they'll just strengthen americas drift towards more lefty economics.

 

You understand that the Bolshevik revolution was funded entirely by New York bankers, right?
You understand that Obama is not a capitalist? And he's the most powerful man in the world?
Do you know he's got nothing but leftist radicals surrounding him, some whom have had to leave after being exposed for Communist speeches, or saying Mao is their greatest hero, simply because it was a political issue for Obama, who carried on in the same way without them?

If you think Marxism is represented by welfare-class voters, you are lost.

 

Why don't you address my example with Goldman Sachs? Where did I go wrong in your dramatic (almost emotional) opinion?

 

So you do believe that waving "Don't Tread On Me" flags from law chairs is enough to stop the transformation of America?
See my opening paragraph in the OP. Thanks

 

The US doesn't allwo the rise of other parties as does europe. They have to contend with voting for the party that is most closely aligned with, but still very far away from, their views -namely the republicans. The US system guarantees that extremists are shut out, and that everything is always dominated by centrists.

 

Europe will be muslim within 50 years , today Usa have about 10 million muslim population and it will be about 20 million in 20 years and probably will be about 50-60 million in the next 50 years .

 

Atheism is gaining groun in cultures where the religion has lost its importance, and those cultures would be the western post christian ones (and other of course). Seeing as these are the very same cultures that are shrinking by their own low birth-rates, and that the cultures that's growing in europe are those of much more religious cultures.. I very much doubt that atheism will grow much in the future.

 

Two things.

1. Yes, communist nations had their rich and elite, but those elite didn't see quite the level of prosperity that ours do. Because communism lowers the standard of living for almost everyone, even the elite in the end.

2. Our elite have built their base around a capitalist society. It's way too much of a gamble for them to have a dramatic change to say Marxism; they don't know if they'll come out benefiting in the end. In fact, they'll probably lose so they're going to work to make sure that doesn't happen.

 

1. How can you not think the rise of Marxism in America and the rise of the police-state are not related? Because the GOP goes along with it? The GOP are foolish, completely lacking in foresight and political ability. You have a devout Marxist in the White House and the power of the government has increased dramatically. The left completely controls this country. Homeland Security was monitoring returning war veterans. What do you think is happening here? Misguided good intentions? lol

2. What happens in Europe will not affect American political thinking at all, because Americans barely know where Europe is. They certainly don't know what's happening in Europe, especially no in any great detail. I doubt most Americans could even find Greece or Germany on a map without labels.

3. Republicans keep telling themselves that Mexicans are capitalists and conservatives and then the Mexicans (and Hispanics in general) keep voting for the Democrats, and the further left the Democrat is, the better.

Kind of funny, but then again.... that's why I made a point to say the conservatives are not even in the discussion when it comes to who will rule the West in 50 years.

 

No, I don't believe that's enough. But the idea of some grassroots conservative movement accomplishing much for the foreseeable future is ridiculous. Give it 10-20 years; if we hit a bad recession again or something DRAMATIC happens then maybe it'll have an effect. But right now people are more or less content, and you waving some flag or whatever you're talking about isn't going to have an effect. Just let things play out a bit, the Marxists aren't taking over in the next 20 years.

 

The current regime isn't interested in educated people immigrating to the US. It will be a tough slog. Easier to go to Canada or Australia I would think?

 

What you're doing is you go "I don't like what's happening to my country." I agree etc. But then you go "omg we loseeeeee the Marxists will take over it's guaranteed." Which is weird, there's little indication of that happening. You should go hibernate for 10 years come back reassess then see that not much dramatic has changed.

 

You mean Goldman Sachs, one of the primary financial backers of all our radical left-wing politicians? The one that got bailed out by the U.S. tax payer?
Yeah, I'm really holding my breath for Goldman Sachs and other Jewish banking firms to save America from Marxism lol.

 

The 'marxists', although is prefer to just call them modern leftists, have taken over. Just look at the positions that influence society like journalists, media, and education. The vast majority of people in those areas are lefist, and thus everything comming from there has a slight or more leftist bias. This is what's shaping the entire culture, which explains the move to the left in recent decades.

And its important to note that the interest of the rich corporatist capitalists doesn't necessarily go against the interests of the modern leftists. Big corporations benefit from excessive laws and regulations like minimum wage and environmental things because it increases the costs for their smaller competitors, and thus they have less competition and sometimes find themselves in a de fact monopoly. If you look closer, you'll see that big companies are supporting many laws. This is good PR, as it gives people the image that they care about working conditions and the environment -which they may very well do- but that their primary goal is that it increases profits one way or another.

 

And this shows how clueless you are. Goldman Sachs wouldn't survive much less thrive in a Marxist society. Like I said, just because they back democrats doesn't mean they aren't capitalist. The reason they back democrats and republicans is because it is capitalistic for them to do so.

 

Time is against you. The demographics continue to shift against white conservative voters every year, and so your "grass roots" political uprising becomes more and more impossible with each passing political season. By the way, how did Ron Paul's grass roots movement work out? The media decides nominees. The Tea Party was railing against Obama for 4 years, than nominated his Mormon clone because Fox News told them too.

Maybe though.

 

That's funny because if I did that 10 years ago I would of woke up today and found an extra 10 trillion dollars in debt, a Black Marxist in the White House and the GOP voting to continue a vast surveillance program on the American citizens.

- - - Updated - - -

How do you think the Soviet Union funded its military and its police state? Tax from homemade vodka?

 

Europeans have been stripped of their guns, the US has not.



So good luck with any take over.

 

1. Leftists have taken over the media for the most part, we lost that battle. See my prior posts on why that's only one fight though; it's the populist battle. There are much more factors than just getting people to vote left, and they'll never get a large part of America's population to come into their fold. They just can't no matter how conniving the media is.

2. That's what I'm talking about. Capitalism is evolving, but it's not going away. It's not going to be the same as it was 100 years ago or as clear-cut/ideological. But it's the most efficient system, particularly for the elite and so it will continue.

For example, yes many big companies benefit from excessive lawas and regulations because it shuts out their smaller competitors. They are acting in their own self-interest to shut out the small guys. I believe that's inevitable in a global economy like we have. That doesn't mean they aren't capitalist; they're just not ideologically pure capitalists. They care less about the constitution but more about practical things in essence.

Aren't your examples a perfect representation of how capable the corporatists are? The fact they can support, for example, excessive laws to bring down their smaller competitors and at the same time get positive PR from it? I'll put my faith in one of them over 100 marxists pooping on cars and waving picket signs any day.

 

What I mean is that the police state isn't a symptom of modern leftism per se. Modern leftism seems more preoccupied with breaking down every part of the society and culture of ours.

Americans make references to europe very often, as a scary example of what america could become. Sure, they don't know where greece or germany is and look at is as a blurry whole, but they know its a scary socialist place. In a few years it will also be the scary multicultural place.

I think that's because there's this image of republicans not liking mexicans. Perhaps this is deserved because republicans seems to attract the majority of racists and people like that -although they are of course not in the majority, and don't have influence- and that gives a negative view of them. And that the media is demonising them just for being the opposition. If they ever get around that, then the mexicans are natural conservatives. except for the economic part.

You are right that conservatives will not rule the west. We have indeed lost this fight..

 

That's why I think issues like gay marriage are just a fad. In a few years, probably everywhere in the West will have gay marriage, but in a 100 years or so, I think very few places will.

You think the US is leaning towards the right? Where have you been the past 5 years? But like gay marriage, I think atheism, will gain in popularity for the short term, until it's outlawed in the long term.

 

lol, I'm beginning to think you're just a troll posing as a rightie. But I'll pretend you're not even if you are.

1. Ten trillion in debt - I'm not even going to touch this because you probably don't understand how irrelevant the debt is when we are the world currency, but suffice to say akphidelt ( a poster on this forum) is right in that righties do tend to overhype the debt. I have more of a problem with the spending itself in principle (on welfare queens, unemployed people who haven't worked for 1 year+ etc.) than I do with the actual figure itself. But I'm sure it's time for you to call me an idiot anyways, Mr. Drama Queen.

2. Black marxist in the white house - agreed more or less. But Obama, while he has his radical views, is still a corporate (*)(*)(*)(*)(*). He had to be to get in office, and he's too weak-willed to branch far from their wing lol. So I think Obama will be a (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*), cause a little carnage and/or stall the economy temporarily, but in the end he's out of office and life continues.

3. Don't be dramatic, the whole spying thing isn't that big a deal. It's wrong and an example of lefties trying to control everyone, but overall the effect isn't going to be significant.


As to the Soviet remark, lol. GS thrives much more in the present-day than they would in a marxist economy. I'm not saying they wouldn't find a way to survive or get by, but it's too much of a risk for them to gamble on their success in a marxist economy and also why do it? When they're doing so much better in our current one?

 

I admire the sentiment but the 2nd Amendment is no match for the weapons that will be used to eradicate it from American life.

 

They shape the culture gradually. If there's only one worldview constantly promoted and used in public, whilst the other is demonised and marginalised, society will cahnge in favour of the former. Societies have changed historically, and this is bound to be yet another such change.

That wouldn't be capitalism anymore though, but rather cronyism or corporatism. I don't see that as anything positive. It disrupts the free market mechanics by adding governmental force to the equation. It will mean corruption and loss of efficiency.

Anyways, my point was that the goals of modern leftists -'marxists'- isn't colliding with the self interest of the crony capitalist. In fact, they benefit very much from co-opration. The leftists want a bigger state so it can take care of people, and the companies benefit from being more and more sewn together with the state. Note that the occupy wallstreet people are fools without any influence. I'm talking about the rich eilte leftists, the one with power.

 

I really don't know what you're arguing here. You're basically arguing that nothing is wrong and that everything is going to be great. I understand your position, believe me, which is why I completely left you and your kind out of the conversation for who will become masters of Western civilization.

You're not doing anything but reinforcing the very first paragraph in my opening post, so....
What else can I do for you?