Which will rule the West in 50 years? Islam or Marxism?

While it will much probably be outlawed once the west turns muslim, the question is how long the muslims will stay so religious. Are they immune to any change? I think not, but I think its very unpredictable all of this. I don't know what will happen once the west gets muslim, but I don't think its impossible that this new muslim west will eventually westernise. and aint that ironic?

 

Considering there will be very few Westerners even left in 100 years, the prospect of an Islamic West "Westernizing" is pretty limited.
We're essentially talking about the complete fall of Western civilization and it's complete replacement as a sort of third-world Islamic or third-world Marxist state in the long term.
Any ability to "Westernize" dies with native Westerners.

 

I think we can both agree (though it sounds a bit leftist to say so) that your concern is ultimately the elite becoming too elite. Cronyism could certainly be a cause of that down the road. I'm fine with the wealth disparity currently in the US, and have no problem if it grew say another 20-30%. But after that, it starts to look like modern feudalism and/or an aristocracy which sucks. But Mr. Dramatic here seems to think marxism is coming, which is just so ridiculous. That's not what you and I are talking about.....

 

/6char.

 

Westernsing as in become more like the modern western civilization.

Western people will not die out just like that. First they will be a minority, and they will remain a minority for quite some time before they finally are bred away. In that time they will be able to influence. And I don't think that an islamic west would be free of western influences since its in the west itself. They will get much more contact with western ideas by virtue of simply being in the west, just like there are many muslims that are already becomming western.

 

I am not reinforcing your paragraph. What you're saying is the capitalists won't fight back right? That we're too content, and that I"m too content?

What I'm saying is that capitalists are already and constantly working to fight Marxism. It's not ideological; Marxism just isn't in their own self-interest. And Marxists won't win against the capitalists, who are much more capable than them.

So you can argue that we're forming an aristocracy in the U.S., or that corporate cronyism is a problem like Swedish guy is doing, but to say "there are two choices, Marxism or Islam in the future" is so out of touch with reality. Neither are a real threat to the US, but perhaps they are a threat to Europe.

 

I'm actually inclined to think we'll be slaughtered, but to each their own.
No sense in debating that.

 

Again, you make ridiculous assumptions. Population growth is slowing down, and projected to continue slowing down. Given this trend (which is the consensus in America at least I will give links soon) there will be plenty of us native Westerners left. At least in America. I think you're lumping the US with Europe when they're really totally different animals.

I think maybe the "West" will decline relatively because Europe is at risk, but America isn't going to take the same direction as Europe.

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sigh. You're determined to be a defeatist

 

My problem isn't the existance of eiltes per se, but that they are elites by the us of governmental force. I just want a free market in which people would get rich due to ability rather than favourable laws and grants.

Marxism, isn't the same as socialism and communism. It's not really an ideology as much as it is a worldview: a kind of science (proven wrong though) that views the world in materialistic terms. One could say that since modern leftism is very much influenced by this scientific marxism worldview, that marxism has already come to the west and america. Socialism and communism however, has not.

 

Apparently you missed the memo where whites will be a minority in 20 years. You will never see another white politician on the national stage ever again after that happens, and as current voting trends prove beyond question, other ethnic groups could care less about your belief in economic or political principle.

And I'm not a defeatist at all. I know full well what could bring a screeching halt to every enemy of Western civilization in five years time, rebuild our nation, and lead us into a new golden age.

I just know this victory will not come through you and the other old ladies wearing red, white and blue "Go America" T-shirts at the Tea Party rallies.

 

I think even Europe could see a reactionary movement if Mr. Dramatic's predictions come true (in Europe). Mr. Dramatic assumes that trends will stay the same and things will be linear; he doesn't expect any of these trends to change.

For instance, Mr. Dramatic doesn't understand that population growth is slowing and is projected to slow VERY DRAMATICALLY over the next 50 years. But he sees rapid growth now, so assumes it will continue.

For instance, he also assumes in the case of Europe there won't be any reaction to Muslim influence by the natives. Hello? Euros can be pretty xenophobic, their "tolerance" levels for muslims will dissipate if they think they're losing their treasured culture. And they'll work to keep Islam's influence at bay...

 

Slaughtered? Why would we be that? They'd only do that if we a real annoyance, and given the general whimpiness of modern westerners, as well as the normal human instinct of trying to survive, that wouldn't be much of a problem. We'd simply find ourselves in a state of dhimmitude, de jure I don't know but defintively de facto. What I mean by that is that I don't know if the west will become a theocracy, or if it will just be a country with a majority muslim population and thus have muslim influenced laws. I think the latter is more plausible.

 

This. Exactly. Someone understands.
For example, when you say "All races are equal," or "There's no such thing as race," whether you like it or not, believe it or not, or accept it or not, you're repeating a Marxist driven world view.
It's completely dominated most of Western civilization and now sits in complete control of our civilization.

 

No, they are not immune from change. Islam was much more moderate 50 years ago. It's gradual radicalization is a reaction to how threatened they feel by Western Culture, and by that I mean our rather open sexual mores and our Hollywood/McDonalds/Coca-Cola pop culture that is competing directly for young minds in Islamic countries. After they've "won" in time they can moderate again without feeling threatened.

 

1. I'm more of a capitalist than you are, so quiet the mouth. I'm not an old lady wearing a "go america" shirt, I work in a very competitive environment that wouldn't exist without free markets. So again, quiet your mouth.

2. I could care less about the Tea Party lol

 

Ok, so... I don't know what the point of this post was at all, but doubt it is relevant to this discussion.

 

B/c you're trying to attack my character by calling me an old tea party lady lol.

 

Indeed. Europe might see rise of fascist parties. Currently when things aren't too bad we already have modern liberal nationalists gaining ground in europe, but if things get even wrose with things like race riots and the immigrant population actually being in a position to challange the natives we'll probably see fascist parties popping up Im afraid. It does of course depend on how couragous the europeans feel. They don't seem to have much in the way of balls now, but lets see if dire situations can grow them some.

Population growth might slow down, but keep in mind that the natives' growth is still much lower than the immigrants' so gradually the percantage of natives will still drop. And add to that the significant immigration. White people will indeed become a minority very soon if current trends continue.

Yeah, I think that's very plausible. Currently europeans are under the spell of the leftist dream of a multicultural utopia, but once reality gets harsh enough we might be reminded that europeans aren't only capable of extreme feminism and multiculti, but also the holocaust.. however this turns out europe will not move in a direction I want. My dreams are shattered no matter what..

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That would depend on how one defines race. But yeah, I agree.

 

Islam will rule. How long has this religion been around. And it's still growing.

Here is why.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kKkY5EpVpY

 

Europe is already seeing the rise of Nationalist parties, the Golden Dawn being a good example.
[video=youtube;6hKcsCsY9B0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hKcsCsY9B0[/video]

So far as population growth is concerned, our borders will not be closed any time soon. One amnesty will follow another, and another, and another.

 

Lol it is a pretty dismal future situation there; fascist or islamist? Ha - but aren't Euros already at least quietly starting to brew some resentment against hte whole multiculturalism thing going on? I mean they're not exactly a historical melting pot like America - I'd think you guys would already be getting pissed about the whole thing. Christ, you go a couple hundred miles and you're in a different country that still has some mild dislike for the neighboring countries. I.e. I'd imagine you should be very xenophobic just be default. Guess I'm wrong though....

 

Indeed. It makes me a bit sad to see that only a few decades ago the muslim countries were solid allies against communsim due to their conservatism, but at the same time they adopted some free market principles. They could just have gotten gradually more liberal and democratic whilst keeping the older structures like monarchy and elemtns of islamic law. It would have been the perfect gradual and stable transformation from a feudalist society into a capitalist one; perfect implementation of conservative (classical) liberalism. But now they turned into what we have now.. Its partly the west's fault though, we should have been more gentle in our dealing with them and been more understanding that it takes time to liberalise. We have to let them evolve in their own pace. oh well, that's all blown away now!

And yeah, that's how I think they could modernise too.

 

Indeed.

I think race riots are an inevitability. Even if we close the borders now they are still very big minorities. But we wont close our borders so they'll just continue to grow.

 

Well, all I can say is Godspeed to the Golden Dawn. My highest hope today is that they will succeed in taking Greece and from there the dominoes will begin to fall all across Europe.

 

Aw, but that's where you are wrong. With the growth of liberal ideas (Democracy, secular laws), it's only natural that the more religious areas realize they're anti-religious. Now then, in more secular areas with lower birthrates, they're turning to Atheism, it's only a slow process, and new immigrants will eventually accept the current culture of slowly accepting atheism.