The Islam haters and the nonsense they name to back the hate!

You based your initial argument on your religious beliefs, but now are abandoning those principles to pursue a more secular agenda. From a purely logical standpoint, we are not going to eliminate radical Islamic terrorism by alienating ALL Muslims, roughly half the world's population. . . . We need to forge an alliance against a common enemy.

CRITICISM is flowing from both sides. . . . Rejecting my "inane" argument does not automatically validate your own.

It is apparent that we won't agree on a solution.

 

And here is your core and basic error in rating of Islam included!

Who is rating that the later version and verses are the controlling? At least only the Islamist, because their behavior is always to change things to make them comfortable and ignore those they can't change! And yes, the Islamist teaching has to be condemn, but not the Islam as complete religion!
And again ... I have no idea what you are not able to follow here! No where is written that Christians and Jews are unbelievers in all consequences in origin! And what idiots make and change then out of this original version has nothing to do with the religion! And I think I have more as enough explained why there are violence issues given too and what the background is, which is usually often ignored when telling Islam = violence!
And that the Christian religion is full of violence is fact too... because the Old Testament is part of it too!

And every experts of Islam tells ... who are these experts please?
Ask yourself why we have since 50 years no Islamic problem with in 3rd generation living Turks in Germany? Because it is compatible and the prople are the important factor, not the religion of them!

If someone should hang is head in shame, then it is you, because lacking knowledge, telling untrue things, putting things out of context and to say the total nonsense that Islam is an evil religion is more as shameful.
Islamapologist I am not ... I am atheist! But I can puke about the BS which people tell about other religions!

 

As do the Christians too... but of course are these then only mentally ill and any Muslim doing so is a bad believer of evil religion!

 

Very excellent example and thank you so much for showing this now!!!

Why?
Because you gave me the excellent example of one of these many bad translation errors which change a complete thing totally!

The correct original text in English is other and has the following!

5:52
"O you who believe, do not take the Jews and the Christians as protectors! They are one of the other patrons. And whosoever shall take them as protectors, he is one of them. Certainly, Allah does not guide the unjust people."

One of the fools who translated the original text into other languages and then from this language it was translated in that language etc. causer this BS!
In the original Arabic Koran is written: الراعي
This means "protector" and wooops ... out of protector became due to this translating chaos "friend".

So exchanging the words protector to friend gives the complete Sure a total other meaning, eh?

 

These words are indeed, but quite honestly: whoever thinks the peaceful religion of Christians is better, is mistaken! As I said before, the first misconception is the spread that of Christianity = only New Testament. Nonsense The Old Testament is just as much the same and we all know that this is also full of violence.

The basic problem is, however, that the term "unbeliever" is not defined in the Koran clear ... speak "unbelievers are... " is missing! Basically, when you look at the whole Koran, it is clear that they really mean those who believe in more than one God ... So religions that have not only one god, but many gods. It was exactly those who were fighting Muhammad at the time.
Only later in the times of the crusades did Christians become "unbelievers" in some versions, apart from the many translation errors that exist.

 

And when the meaning is totally changed, how can it be from God?

 

How can any religious book be from a god please?

In front: I'm atheist ... so honestly: So you believe that the bible is the pure unchanged word of the Christian god? Really?
Anyone who answers yes is a troll, because the simple translation from the original in Latin or Greek into another language cause much errors. But then we have the fact, that the content itself is censored, because much of the past many councils decided about the content! You think there were always only 4 Gospels?
No ... there were more, but uncomfortable and so eliminated and forgotten until refund when archeologist found them in the Sinai and Egypt.
And then ... only to stop now with next example: If you find an English bible of 16th or 17th century, compare with the bible in content of today. Strange, isn't it?

So in conclusion:
The religious books of any religion are written by humans who believe in this religion and much too often they write things which are more comfortable or change them to be more comfortable. Also the content changes form time to time too ...

 

Well actually in most cases they were there first. Syrian Christians who are being exterminated even as we speak were in Syria six centuries before anyone heard of Muhammad. And the problem with Islam in many cases isn't much the Koran as it is the Hadiths of which there are thousands many of which are virulent tribalist nonsense.

 

Say, you know much about Islam for a non-Muslim westerner.

 

Since you're an athiest, why do you defend Islam?

 

Agree.

 

Ive read the Koran and many of the Hadiths and the Koran is FULL OF verses that condone violence to achieve conquest of the unbelievers.

 

The general problem why many people here regard Islam as evil are the extremists in this religion.

In order to make it clear to the Americans, where the 2 basic problems and the root of the evil lie ...

1.
In contrast to Christianity, there had been no reformation in Islam to this day, because no possibility given that this could happen. This Reformation is the basis for everything we celebrate in the West as an achievement. Without this Reformation, science and research would still be in the Middle Ages!
Some people may wonder why there was no way in Islam for reformation. The answer is that most of the Islamic territories in the ME were part of the Ottoman Empire, which backs his power on religion. Moreover, even prior to the Reformation, secular offices were, in a certain sense, separated from kings. No pope, no bishop, etc., was at the same time King of France, or England, etc. In Islam there was no such separation, and therefore there was never any conflict between kings and imams, as between the pope and the one or the other king .

2.
I think everyone, especially the Americans know and also know about extreme Christian fundamentalists. These are usually only a minority and, at best, locally worth mentioning.
Now, however, every American should imagine that these radical Christians take the power in the US ... then what?
You also say that Darwin was right? Go to prison with you, Satanist and devil worshiper, the earth is only a thousand years old as the Bible teaches us!

The people of Islam have had that for centuries, and for them everyday life was as normal as for us in the medieval ages to pay for our sins money to the church, so that we might nevertheless come to paradise!
Everyone who now wonders why people do not want to be free from the nonsense and the idiotic interpretation of the faith ... therefore want to have a reformation ... may ask his government in his country! This is especially true for the Americans, because the regimes in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan and the bloody dictators in the Muslim countries are all too often supported and sustained by Washington. Only these regimes prevent any opposition in the faith, not just politically!

 

No, I defend people against BS attacks.

Everyone shall believe in his god and whatever god he or she wants. I give a crap about if Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist or simply prying to the next tree.
I simply hate it when some people start an evil propaganda war based on lies, half trues, out of context taken facts, translation errors, BS claiming and arrogance + ignorance. Right this happens here with the Muslims.

 

It also happens with the Christians, but you don't try to clarify the lies against Christianity. You certainly have time to prove me wrong. Go ahead, and be sure to let me know when you do.

 

Which lies about Christianity are they? Perhaps you can list them. Or are you going to state defenses used by those of a religion that is being constantly attacked by "Christians", and others from the usual suspects, with their defense being that the Bible also has similar verses?

 

Can the OP answer one simple question. What religion did the killers of 9-11 belong to?????? So------------why would any American be thrilled with muslims????????????

 

But at least we have the NT.

Muslims have nothing comparable.

 

Guess what, I don't mind muslims existing so long as they are not here with us, groping and raping our women, looking down on us (infidel=untermensch) and what is even worse - looking on us lilke a pray for the taking.
Let them be in the Muslim world, not in Christiandom.
You can't be liberal and tollerant in S. Arabia, didn't you know that?

 

Rationalizing the violence preached extensively as a "translation problem" is one giant stretch.

Christianity, by definition, starts with the New Testament wherein Jesus said to let the old stuff go. The New Testament does not preach nor suggest any violence. You will find no justification for the crusades or the Catholic Church shenanigans in the New Testament. While at least the Islamic Terrorists can find clear justification for their actions in the Koran.

I don't think anyone says the majority of Muslims support terrorism. I think it is a very small percentage. But 1%, or 20,000,000, can cause a helluva lot of damage and destruction.

You have a light years challenge ahead to compare USA violence with Europe, Asia, or ME violence.

 

The old testament is full of violence because it describes the early years of human history. All history books, if they are both accurate and honest are going to contain a butt load of violence, that's just the way we humans roll.

 

Section one is decent. and in fact much of what we see happening is a battle for the heart and soul of Islam. The sad part of all this is that it is damn hard to resist that siren call of people who are claiming they want to put you in the cat bird seat as ISIS and Al Qaeda are doing especially when they are offering to share the spoils of their forth coming victory with you.

 

Oh and extreme Christian fundamentalist aren't really much of a threat to anyone here. Every four or five years some jackass shoots an abortionist every four or five years some other jackass blows up an abortion clinic but usually in the wee small hours of the morning when no one is there. Your basic chance of being harmed by a Christian fundamentalist is less than your chance of being eaten by a shark.

 

and since when are Christians under same **** Storm attack as Muslims? Show me where they need for what a defense please!

 

But if these Chrisitan fundamentalist scum earns the power and the saying then it is another story, eh?
Think about if these idiots makes the rules and laws, means they burn the US constitution and say the law is written by god in the bible. Will you be happy then?

I think and hope this is not the case! And if you then try to make serious opposition against them and the result is prison for you at best ... and then you see that the biggest democracy as they call them by their own defends and backs the fundamentalists in power, then you will like the situation very well! Or I'm wrong?