First century church may have numbered 400,000... did the majority convert to Islam?

Ben Gurion said that the Palestinians were descended from first century Jews, but he also condemned them for converting to Christianity or later to Islam.

 

You should be able to do some genetic DNA tests to see if they are related to the Chechens.

 

What good does praying do when America arms the army of israel? Do you pray for more accurate bombs?

 

Well this is certainly an encouraging move by the PLO!!!

Wow!


PLO Sends Passover Greetings to Israel Instead of Death Threats

 

Could be.....
many Jews and Christians see the bombardment of Baghdad
as a fulfillment of a prophecy in Jeremiah.

Jeremiah 50:9

"For, lo, I will raise and cause to come up against Babylon an assembly of great nations from the north country:
and they shall set themselves in array against her; from thence she shall be taken: their arrows shall be as of
a mighty expert man; none shall return in vain."

 

Yes... I am sure that
some research will be soon done on that angle.

 

According to the Bible a true prophecy must happen within the prophet's lifetime. Seeing that this event is over a couple thousands years after the prophecy it should be regarded as a fake per the Bible's standard.

 

Lost Israelites was a silly parlor game in the UK after so many bought into the Scofield heresy.

 

Apparently back in the seventeenth or eighteenth century about two thirds of Anglican theologians believed there was some truth to the idea of part of the lost tribes of Israel migrating to the British Isles....... but also to many other nations.

 

I see that there are some new participants here who could find this topic rather intriguing indeed.........

 

I seriously doubt there were anything like 400,000 Christians by the end of the 1st Century, and probably not even that many by the time of Constantine. Arabs were already distinct tribes before Alexander began his conquests, beyond the Greek culture that dominated the 'Decapolis' , 10 cities, to the east of Judah and beyond, and still heavily influencing the 'Successor states' and Persia. Jews heavily persecuted them for centuries, and so did Persians, Romans, and other tribes right up to the rise of Mohammed's bandit armies. The last two kings of the last Jewish kingdom in what is now Yemen left stelas commemorating their massacres of Christians in Arabia, 15,000 on one, 25,000 on the other or close to those numbers, and the three other Roman Emperors competing with Constantine all launched truly massive massacres of them, and this after Diocletian's massive purges and executions some two plus centuries later, plus all the smaller massacres up to those in the previous centuries.

Between being spread by word of mouth, mostly under secrecy and under the thumbs of dictators who alternated between indifference and and extreme oppress ions from all sides, especially pagans, I doubt there were even 100,000 by the end of the 1st Century, given how most of the evidence speaks of them being small communities who mostly knew each other and had set up some social services for themselves that impressed Constantine enough to put them in charge of the Empire's social services, since the pagans did such a lousy job at it. Maybe after the waves of persecutions that impressed so many people flocked to them under Diocletan and the three Emperors would probably have brought that many and more into the churches in the late third and early 4th century. These were people meeting in each other's houses, driven out of the synagogues very early on, not big giant cathedrals or buildings to note, even in Antioch and Syria . Once in while they might hold an outdoor gathering somewhere and look almost like a big crowd.

The 'Palestinians' came along much later, and came from Iraq, Syria, Egypt, and other points, and were never a 'people'; that's an invention of Arafat's in the early 1960's. The civil wars with the Ottomans against the Egyptians in the 1840's depleted the region to near nothing, which is why the Ottomans encouraged the first two or three Aliyahs in the first place, in order to make the place worth something and build up the economy. The local Arabs hid in the hills and dodged paying taxes and being drafted for the most part.

 

If fifteen thousand Christians and then twenty five thousand Christians.......are massacred in what is now Yemen...... then there must have been a lot more than that before the massacre............. .and Yemen is only one area where Christianity spread to during the first and second century.

Act 21:20 - And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:"

This was probably before the year 60 C.E.

 

At the Council of Jerusalem, it was decided that a person did not have to follow the Mosaic Law to be saved. When it states "circumcision" in Acts and elsewhere, it is not referring to literal circumcision but the Mosaic Law.

When the early Christians decided that it was not necessary to follow the Mosaic Law in order to be saved, that is the point at which Christianity became incompatible with the Jews. Judaism can tolerate a lot of variation and interpretation of the Law, but you have to believe in the Law.

Christianity was just a "denomination" of Judaism until it declared the Law was not required. Once it did that then the persecution by Jews began. That's why Paul was beaten and run out of town everywhere.

Christianity and Judaism had divorced long before 135 AD.

 

Actually..... that judgment call by the first century disciples was a lot like the Noahide Movement of today. You do not have to be circumcised to become a Noahide.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah

 

The last two Jewish kings here were right before the Muslim conquests, about 500 years after the 1st Century. Jews and Christians made up about a third each of the population of Medina when Mohammed was starting out on his murder and looting spree.

Doubtful it was anywhere near 400,000, more like maybe 10,000 around that date.

 

That council was with the Pharisee sect converts; they were a pretty strict sect. Does it not decide that Jewish Christians still had to comply with the Jewish laws, but Gentile Christians were exempt from the Jewish duties?

 

It declared that salvation through acceptance of the Messiah was all that was required of anyone, it declared salvation by faith alone, not through works (the Law).

You are correct in that the Council did decide some rules should be followed not for salvation but to avoid stumbling blocks and ease the association of Gentiles and Jews. The Council decided that people should still abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from eating blood or the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality, because those were so ingrained in the Jewish community and personal life that they were repulsive, and many Jews would not be able to tolerate those deeds.

Food sacrificed to idols and sexual immorality were also problematic to Gentiles, they are mentioned in several of Pauls letters (to Corinth for example). Gentiles entering Christianity were leaving a religion in which sacrificial food and sexual immorality (orgies, temple prostitutes, etc) were ingrained in society. To avoid temptation, those were to be avoided.

 

Once a mind learns how to enter into such a state, one can enter into it during daily life, while doing other things. This is where its greatest value is found, for this state of being is different from normal ego consciousness. The problem is for the mind to enter into a real state of meditation for the first time. But once the mind finds it, entering again is as natural as breathing. I have no tips on finding this state the first time. For any use of "will" only pushes it away. But this needs to be learnt by personal experience. No one can help another person although people make money offering such a service. Repeating a mantra whether it is sanskrit or coca cola takes one into a state, but the wrong state. Being intentionally attentive on what is going on outside and inside and WATCHING this seems to be better, as it does not dull the mind. And yet one must get to a point where nothing is wanted to be gained, or that state of mind chased after. For whosoever shall save his soul shall lose it. There must be no effort exerted. And yes, I know it sounds like nonsense, but those that experience this state get it. Knowing what not to do is perhaps a tip, but a positive tip never helps. It only frustrates. So if one discounts all of the teachings of meditation teachers, and start from there, perhaps in this negation the way will reveal itself in intentional attentiveness. Anyways, being intentionally attentive for even 5 minutes a day or when you lie in bed before sleep, is how one learns about oneself, which is a most valuable knowledge. As the ancient greeks said, know thyself.

 

I read that Rabbi Akiva convinced Simon Bar Kochba that once he drove the Romans out of Judaea...... he then should expel the Messianic Jews. If there had only been ten thousand of them in Judaea in the years before the Bar Kochba Revolt............ I suspect that Rabbi Akiva would have gotten Simon Bar Kochba to attack them even before attacking the Romans........... in order to have a more pure Jewish people living in Judaea...... which to the mind of Rabbi Akiva would please G-d and increase the probability of miraculous intervention on behalf of Simon Bar Kochba and his followers.

 

Yup... many of the non-Messianic Pharisees were determined to kill the Apostle Paul.

 

There used to be a thriving First Century Christian community in modern-day Turkey. What happened to all of them?

 

Where are you getting this from ? The Council of Jerusalem did no such thing.

 

It absolutely did decide that the Gospel was the road to salvation, and that the Mosaic Law was not required for salvation. In the Bible and in Judaism, "circumcision" is used as a synonym for the Mosaic Law. Read all of Acts to get the context, the reason for the Council was because many Gentiles were becoming believers and some were accepting the Law and some were not. Many were questioning the necessity for Gentiles accepting the Law given Jesus teachings. Paul taught the Law was not required, and Peter agreed. Other Jews (particularly those in Jerusalem) thought the Law was required. Hence they met and decided. The result is mentioned throughout the New Testament.

 

Thanks. Interesting. One wonders of course what sources he used to create his hypothesis? I know there are many roman records, and from my understanding they were meticulous record keepers. If he used those records as evidence, since you know the details of that jewish revolt was big news back in rome, and of interest to the empire, and recorded... there might be some info in that which would back up what this guy is saying about what happened to the jews and the christian jews at that time. Makes sense that the farming jews of both sects would be of value to the romans. But that city dwellers, the religious authority, had to get the hell out of town. Being city dwellers with a city related vocation would tend to make them travel to other cities...somewhere. Logical at any rate.

Anyways, whether I will believe the author is right depends upon his sources, and how good they are. For anyone can intelligently make conjecture, even with a minimal amount of hard fact.

But his ideas do make sense, at least for me who is not an expert on this subject. I just know that a couple thousand years is a long time for human beings. Given our life span. And when you get back to the time right after christ, the history can get muddled, and sparse. I would imagine the records of rome of this time might be one of the few sources. Did the Jewish religious authority keep good records? Records they might have taken with them as they left?

 

Absolutely it did not. Regardless .. even if Christians were not bound by Mosaic law (which you have yet to prove) this has zero to do with salvation by faith alone (sola fide).

According to Jesus ... works are the path to heaven. Read the sermon on the mount .. the sermon where Jesus is talking specifically about what it takes to get into heaven. Never does he mention it is by faith.... that sermon is about works as the path to salvation. Full Stop.