Honest invitation to the Leftist Liberals -- please, tell us on the Right what you REALLY want!

Look, read my first post again in this thread. I have tried to be reasonable and explain my points well, hoping this thread would turn out the way Pollycy set it up. And then I am met with your partisan babble about the lying liberal media, the Dems being at fault for everything, accusations that something is wrong with me, and that I want to destroy "your" country. Can you understand that it is very frustrating to attempt communication this way? You are not making Pollycy's point, rather you are reinforcing assumptions that some on the right cannot be reasonably argued with.

 

This pretty much sums it up for me...great post...thanks

 

You aren't being reasonable AT ALL. You still haven't responded to my first post TO YOU!

Steve

 

I can answer that question. If you study history, democratic socialism aka communism in it's purist form comes about on the foundation of jealousy and envy. Lazy people, losers, people with chips on their shoulders, people who think their should be minimum living wages without regard for market demand, sheeple who believe the constant bullshit propaganda spewed by liberal media, people who make $80K and are butthurt because their boss who writes the checks makes $500K......etc.

These types of people, half the country, are jealous and think that everybody else are millionaires and billionaires....something they'll likely never be, so instead of living the life they have they want the government to destroy the millionaires and billionaire's wealth and re-distribute it to the lowly democrat who only rakes in $80K/year.

It's these types of people that Hitler, Trotsky, Lenin, Stalin used to enable their dictatorships. They used psychology to rile up the collective butthurt and sell them the fake utopia of socialism administered by the government. Capitalism is evil, spread the wealth.

The least educated are the easiest to convince since they're not bright enough to know they're getting played.....this is psychology after all. If you run out and follow someone who plays to your butthurt jealousy and envy of others.....you are exactly the same as people standing in the crowds listening to Lenin, Trotsky, and Hitler.

The American Democrat is amongst the most pathetic group of people in the entire world. They should visit some of the former socialist states in Eastern Europe where the average wage is $350/month and the people are happier than they were when they lived in the socialist utopia.

 

Some great points but could you be nicer and not call them pathetic? They have been brainwashed to think socialism is this magical utopia...it doesn't make them pathetic it just makes them misinformed

 

As I stated previously, I have no idea what the "liberal establishment" wants. Everything posted thus far are individual interpretations of what they think that establishment wants. Here is an OpEd piece that captures most of what I want with a few policy variations. Thanks go to Mitt Romney.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...?utm_source=reddit.com&utm_term=.8f8c2e0c3bdf

 

Misinformed is the same as ignorant of the facts, so pathetic ain't that bad.

 

Have you given credit to Ayn Rand for this rant? You really should you know. I'll say this to your credit, the "if you studied history" line was precious. Bless your heart.

 

And I'm so glad you posted this thread. I was thinking - only last evening - that it is often difficult to get into sincere discussions because of the name calling from both sides (myself not excluded). I may not agree with the policies or thought processes of others, but I can hardly expect them to respond to my thoughts with intelligent counters if I can't do that for them. This thread, I think, may be a nice start.

 

The left is not, and hasn't since the early 2000s been open to, or willing to compromise.

 

But socialism is magic when dealing with opponents of your society, and dealing with CARAVAN HORDES. Just NOTHING you disagree with.

 

Nu UH, that is lifted RIGHT from my CRAZY uncles rantings. He is dead now, so it can be copied free.

 

Why did you go against the OP?
Why purposely derail the thread that was meant for honest and open discussion?

NO ONE cares what you think about those you know NOTHING about.

 

I agree on that. Dan Rather tried to keep Bush from being reelected one month before the 2004 election with phony documents. It didn't work, Rather was fired, but the lying liberal media is still at it as we speak.

Do a search of "New York Times: Trump" and look at all the political propaganda they publish day after day. It's the beginnings of FASCISM by dems, or at least authoritarianism.

Steve

 

Not around here, saying someone is "ignorant of the facts" will get your post deleted and a warning such as

"Then have your conversation after calls of ignorance on another forum, because they will be deleted here."

 

I want single payer healthcare
I want a flat tax with no deductions except for 401k with no more than 25,000 per year per person, all income to be taxed at that rate after one deduction for the federal poverty level.
I want SS eliminated and a fed guarantee of the federal poverty level income at retirement.
I want complete legalization of drugs similar to alcohol
I want the corporate tax rate set to 15% of profits but with many present deductions eliminated. Elimination of capitol gains taxes, all income to be treated the same.
I want term limits of 5 terms for the house and three in the senate.
I want campaign contributions limited to $100,000 for your district, $50,000 for out of district personal donations only. no corporate or Union donations.
I want all elected reps to have no business with the federal government for two years after they leave.
I want a balanced budget within 10 years. Taxes receipts are to be raised 2% per year and spending cut by a like amount.
I want a federal ID program, a more secure southern border, and jail terms for those that hire illegals.
I want a 20% tarif on all goods from China until they decrease the trade deficit to 25% of total volume of trade between the two countries.
I want school vouchers for 75% of the cost for any student whose public school does not meet the no child standards after two years. These schools have to accept disabilities at the same % rate in the public schools. These vouchers to be paid from fed aid to that district.

 

I know everything about the left, I have fought on the leftist side, I have had many discussions with people on the left. I have read the communist manifesto, the Das Kapital, much of the writings and speeches of Stalin, Mao. I know more than you will ever know about the left.

The poster ask how we could communicate and find common ground. I pointed out that the left by it's very definition can not be communicated with. How can you create a revolution, when you agree with almost everything in the current system. The left being revolutionaries, are focused on one thing, and that is forcing a revolution by any means necessary whether the rest of us want it or not.

I only pointed out the facts.

 

Your a Republican, are you not?

 

There are many types of socialist (here's me thinking that a perfect political system would only have one type). Increasingly Revolutionary socialist are taking over the Leftist movement and as such the values the left once had, no longer exists.

I agree we can do that, and I commend you for creating such threads. The responses so far have been interesting, a lot of what the left demand is what Republicans believe in.

 

Foyle's War. British TV programs are great. Australian ones also.

For me it's the masks some of you hide behind...like "Christian" or "Patriot". As if anyone of you can be more or less moral than the rest of humanity. As if someone who disagrees with your opinion is unpatriotic, and somehow not worthy to live in this country. I like this OP. But doubt it will help much. You all spend more words trying to prove you are right and someone else is wrong, than trying to solve anything. Until people decide whether they would prefer to be right or happy, things will continue as they are.

 

I'm all for eliminating the waste, but that requires an incentive to eliminate the waste. So do your ideas work?

Yes, there is social status and dignity associated with having a good job, but I've been to a few parties where everybody bragged about being on welfare. See, I lived in the hood during the 80s, and every 1st and 15th of the month were called "Mother's day" because that's when all the welfare people got their checks. The neighborhood would be abuzz with women running around acting like the postman was santa claus. There would be reports of "He's doing 31st street now, so he'll be here in ten minutes!!!!" The girls would be busying themselves to get ready to go to the check cashing place, and about two hours later, the party began and it ran well past midnight.

One of the ways I benefited from that was that I was known to purchase food stamps at half price. They'd come knocking on my door and I'd buy 100 dollars worth of food stamps for 50 dollars. They'd take the cash to the crack house, and I would go shopping the next day.

This scam was well known, so the government decided to address that by issuing food stamp credit cards (I think they're called EBT and SNAP now). So if you want to go shopping with food stamps, you have to use your photo ID BET card. Of course, the only fly in that ointment is that it just means you take your welfare recipient grocery shopping with you. You head to the supermarket, fill up the cart, and then she pays for it. It's her face on the card, her face purchasing the food, and then you pay half of the total bill in the parking lot, and head your separate ways.

In other words, the government's solution was a minor speed bump.

Your last incentive is much the same as the first. Sure, it would be nice if people can get a job that pays a "living wage" but it's very hard for somebody with a high school education (or even a college education) to compete with what the government gives for free. A single mother with two children can get roughly 35,000 dollars worth of welfare every year. That comes with the added benefit of every day being a sunday.

Your incentives both assume that the person getting all this free money has an incentive to not get free money. What we really need is an incentive for the government to be frugal with our money, while at the same time ensuring that the money it does give to "the needy" gets spent wisely.

 

The border has nothing to do with a living wage.
The left doesn't want open borders.
You are of the type that there is no negotiating with. You think you know what the left wants, even though most every one considered left has not said anything remotely close to what you believe. In fact many have said just the opposite.
All you know about the left you get from RW radio.

 

So far, the only one's in this thread showing no signs of ever negotiating are all RWers.
Most, if not all left side types, have put forth honest and sensible propositions that can be used as a starting point.

It is NOT the LW that is unwilling to negotiate. This thread is a prime example of that. It is RWers.

 

Okay, then I will weigh in. With all due respect to you and to the moderate left who have posted on this thread (good for you for trying, anyway), the left and right have reached an impasse. We no longer share the same fundamental values. Time was (and I'm not sure how far you have to go back... 1950?), both the left and the right shared the same fundamental (American) values and only differed on the means to get there. No more. Now the left and the right have fundamentally different views of what America is, means, and should be in the future. Obama said he wanted to "fundamentally transform America". He wasn't joking. To the left, the right is evil, racist, patriarchal, and stuck in a time warp that refuses to play along with the fundamental transformation of America into something completely different from what it was. To the right, the left is batshit crazy, doing everything in its power to destroy the last, best hope of mankind, to tear down the fundamental institutions that made America the sole superpower in the world and the bastion of freedom. They want to replace white people with brown and black people and believe naively that that won't fundamentally alter America into something that looks more like Brazil than the US. They want to tear down capitalism and believe naively that that won't make America into something that looks more like Venezuela than the US. They want to cripple American military power and believe naively that that will somehow make the world more peaceful. And they want to transform America into a morally bankrupt place that embraces every sin, every perversion, every mental illness as if they were something good and decent and wholesome, believing naively that that won't fundamentally alter America into something that looks like Weimar Germany instead of the US. We cannot agree on means because we do not agree on goals. We're on a great ship, and while the right is trying to save it from the enormous holes in the hull, the left is desperately trying to rip larger holes in it, thinking that it's been afloat this long, it's not going to sink now. WRONG.

 

Learn ECONOMICS and then we'll discuss. Supporting immigration is supporting employers ability to CHOSE people willing to work for lower pay. With 27 MILLION immigrants in our workforce, there' is NO DOUBT one of the biggest reasons WAGES HAVE STAGNATED is due to an abundance of job seekers.

Steve