Well, it's finally happened, Justice Dept handed down Seditious Conspiracy indictments

I keep hearing from Trump fans, 'okay, where are the indictments for 'insurrection'? As if such a thing didn't happen. Now, looks like they are going the 'Seditious Conspiracy" route rather than 'Insurrection", though they are related. I say it did happen all along and convictions along these lines take time, because a wealth of evidence has to be gone over with a find tooth comb. This one is against the leader of the Oath Keepers and I think 10 others will be indicted, as well, per various news reports. .

But, the question I want to debate on this forum is this:

Do you think the Oath Keepers were inspired by Trump? Is Trump responsible, in part, or on whole, for the acts of this group? If, in part, to what degree do you think Trump should be held responsible?

I hold the view that Trump is at least 50% responsible, if not more.

Also, the similar post in the current events forum missed this juicy quote on the Justice.gov website:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/lead...dicted-federal-court-seditious-conspiracy-and

According to the seditious conspiracy indictment, the defendants conspired through a variety of manners and means, including: organizing into teams that were prepared and willing to use force and to transport firearms and ammunition into Washington, D.C.; recruiting members and affiliates to participate in the conspiracy; organizing trainings to teach and learn paramilitary combat tactics; bringing and contributing paramilitary gear, weapons and supplies – including knives, batons, camouflaged combat uniforms, tactical vests with plates, helmets, eye protection and radio equipment – to the Capitol grounds; breaching and attempting to take control of the Capitol grounds and building on Jan. 6, 2021, in an effort to prevent, hinder and delay the certification of the electoral college vote; using force against law enforcement officers while inside the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021; continuing to plot, after Jan. 6, 2021, to oppose by force the lawful transfer of presidential power, and using websites, social media, text messaging and encrypted messaging applications to communicate with co-conspirators and others.

 

until those around Trump speak under oath, hard to know for sure

I would like to think Trump was just being stupid and had no clue what he was doing... but do not know that for sure

the part Trump is more likely to be responsible for, is lack of action during it

I do think Trump tried to steal the election, but the attack on the Capital, not sure he expected it to go that far

I do think when Trump called members of Congress during the attack, he tried to use it to his advantage to scare republicans into doing what he wanted

 

From what the Oath Keepers allegedly said, yes, they were inspired by Trump -- more specifically by his repeated claims of electoral fraud, and so not just by Trump, but by all of those who made these claims. The whole "Stop the Steal" cabal.

 

I guess that is key, yes, I think he was responsible, just not sure it breaks any laws or not

what Trump did was wrong for sure

 

Trump has played with the law all his life. His attorneys have taught him well how to speak 'in tongue' that doesn't intimidate him. Always pushing the envelope but not quite going far enough. That's why he's stayed out of jail all his life. I honestly believe when this is all over he will find he went too far and he'll start paying some dues.

 

He's clueless about the Constitution but when it comes to saving himself from the humiliation of a massive vote count loss to Biden he's clearly as devious as they come.

 

Trump may have played a part, as in an actor, but he wasn't responsible for this event. I knew all the way back in 2014 that there was a plan in the works to commit an unthinkable act that would shock Americans. I just don't recall if I knew what form it would take.

This is all part of our new pro-disclosure government. Stirring up drama and then seeding the truth out there when it's done. Mission accomplished. But blink and you'll miss it. Especially if you're a skeptic. Then it's on to the next event.

The proof for this is about as solid as the proof for the existence of aliens. Just two among many things that you have to think about.

 

To quote one of the finest American statesmen of the last century:

“Sedition in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.” Or something like that I forget exactly.

 

About time !!!

 

He is already riding the tiger. He'll probably develop an exculpating health condition before it all catches up with him.

 

Yet another thread about one day. How many threads on this forum have been about one day? How many of these same posters posted threads about the BLM / Antifa riots that were more deadly, more costly, and lasted for months, as opposed to a day? They don't care about riots, which they have hyperbolized as insurrection, sedition, coup, etc., instead of just using the word "riot'; they care about who is rioting.

 

Unfortunately for you and the other trumpists, these seditious asshats that were storming the capitol and those that planned it are going to pay for their crimes.

 

They claimed Trump was not doing enough to keep Biden out of the White House.

 

It was planned but not in a way many are thinking. The “normies” or the duped Trump supporters were nothing more than bodies and completely unaware.

The breach began before Trump’s speech ended for those wondering why the DOJ is not pursuing incitement.

The breach on the east side of the Capitol was coordinated by the administration and Republican operatives. The latter secured the permits through front groups.

I suppose they didn’t plan on the group they assembled to be camera carrying—audio visual capturing—witnesses.

How far up the chain the DOJ can go remains to be seen though this indictment suggests higher. It’s going to get interesting over the next six months.

 

One of the more interesting aspects of the indictment, aside from having a stash of weapons in VA ready to be brought to DC once the Capital was secured, is that Rhodes didn't actually enter the Capital building. Meaning these charges are about the plot and not the execution of the attempted coup.

The seditious conspiracy indictment alleges that, following the Nov. 3, 2020, presidential election, Rhodes conspired with his co-defendants and others to oppose by force the execution of the laws governing the transfer of presidential power by Jan. 20, 2021. Beginning in late December 2020, via encrypted and private communications applications, Rhodes and various co-conspirators coordinated and planned to travel to Washington, D.C., on or around Jan. 6, 2021, the date of the certification of the electoral college vote, the indictment alleges. Rhodes and several co-conspirators made plans to bring weapons to the area to support the operation. The co-conspirators then traveled across the country to the Washington, D.C., metropolitan area in early January 2021.

According to the seditious conspiracy indictment, the defendants conspired through a variety of manners and means, including: organizing into teams that were prepared and willing to use force and to transport firearms and ammunition into Washington, D.C.; recruiting members and affiliates to participate in the conspiracy; organizing trainings to teach and learn paramilitary combat tactics; bringing and contributing paramilitary gear, weapons and supplies – including knives, batons, camouflaged combat uniforms, tactical vests with plates, helmets, eye protection and radio equipment – to the Capitol grounds; breaching and attempting to take control of the Capitol grounds and building on Jan. 6, 2021, in an effort to prevent, hinder and delay the certification of the electoral college vote; using force against law enforcement officers while inside the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021; continuing to plot, after Jan. 6, 2021, to oppose by force the lawful transfer of presidential power, and using websites, social media, text messaging and encrypted messaging applications to communicate with co-conspirators and others.

 

That particular whataboutism is as ineffectual as it is old.

 

Pointing out hypocrisy, disingenuousness, and fact is whataboutism? Again, you people have harped on January 6th over and over and over again. Your side has written articles and articles, posts and post, Tweets and Tweets, and broadcasted videos and videos about one day. If one were to read and watch all the hyperbole (e.g. insurrection, sedition, coup, etc.) and mendacity (e.g. 5 people died on January 6th), the time they spent reading and watching the Democrat reactions would last longer than the event itself. In fact, in comparison, the amount of time of the event would be small in comparison. The point remains: you people do not seem to care about rioting. You don't. You seem to care about who is rioting. None, none of the people who have made multiple threads about January 6th made ONE, NOT ONE, thread about ANY of the BLM / Antifa at the time nor after they occurred. So instead of just misusing the word "whataboutism," how about attempting to explain yourselves. Again, the BLM / Antifa riots lasted for months, and cost more in money and lives than January 6th. I mean, January 6th was over a year ago. And there are still threads being made about it. And, guess what, I cannot predict the future, but I KNOW more threads will be made about it after this very post. Anytime, any of you making threads about January 6th can make threads about the BLM / Antifa rioting, but you're not.

 

Why 2014?

 

Words to live by......or something like that, I forget exactly. Good stuff.

 

That was the year I had my first psychotic break. I checked out upstairs in my head, mental health issues. But, on that night, part of me kept talking, to a spook who used to visit these boards. Plans were hatched to bring the people into a better state for being prepared to accept a new world that's coming. But, I only brought that up to take us part of the way. The finishing touches of those plans are their problem, not mine.

 

The reason is because they are like apples and oranges. One was about social justice (police brutality against minorities) or to put it another way violence against citizens. The other was about politcs and the peaceful transfer of power which is the essence of our country. One had over 14000 arrests the other over 700.
Don't know why all of this is so hard for you to comprehend.

 

these people were not defending "liberty,' unless you count trump's natural right to be president for life,.

 

Defending over throwing a gov't function to transfer power of the presidency. Just like you were defending posts about wanting to put blacks back in chains.

WOW!!!

 

That isn't what Goldwater said. He said 'Extremism, in defense of liberty, is no vice".

But, what he meant by extremism, that's up for interpretation, but Goldwater was a law and order guy, so I doubt, sincerely, he meant sedition.. He meant 'vehement passion', which is legal.

 

It's not about 'one day' it's about the fact that the DOJ has made it's first sedition indictment.

Aren't you paying attention?