Athiests do not accept miracles

You asked for examples ?

When I post these examples that show how you use Ad Hom as a tool you get upset.

If you don't like what you see when shown what you asked to be shown then perhaps you should not ask to begin with.

 

And reported.

You are the one following me around kiddo. And what is it you just said?

You twisted and contemptuos lies, deliberate twists are not proof of anything other than your own dishonesty.

I have no desire to engage another irrational athtard with no standards and a personal fixation. See the thread title? Feel free to participate like an adult.

 

If this thread doesn't tone down, I will close it. I am getting reports that pertain to "Off topic" posts.

Stay "on topic" please.

Thank you,

Jiyuu-Freedom
Site Moderator

P.S. Do not reply to this post. If you have a concern, p.m. me or another moderator.

 

You ignored this last time, so here it is again:

A miracle is an unexplained event attributed to a supernatural cause. By its very nature and definition, science cannot deal with the supernatural. To claim that there are "scientifically documented miracles" is a logical contradiction.

There may be events documented that some believe to be miracles, but science has nothing to do with that.

No it isn't. You left out the most important part - "supernatural".

No, science doesn't, because it literally cannot.

Of course not, because there is no testable, falsifiable evidence to suggest that they do (and yes, I am aware of the link you keep posting - there still isn't any valid evidence).

 

Documented? LOL. There are no miracles.

 

You ignored the point again.

The basis of those events cannot be determined. That is what makes them miracles.

Can they be proven to have a supernatural cause? Of course not, then they would have a defined source wouldn't they!

Yet, God predicts them and they happen. Hence, preponderance over the aggregate. As we see from Kilgram, atheists predict that they will not happen. Hence preponderance favors our side when it comes to miracles.

Thank you for fundamentally missing the point - and allready ready to blow your stack - again.

 

And the thesis proven again.

You atheists are not very good at this debate thing are you?

 

Sorry, what do you mean by this?

 

Preponderance.

Sceince can neither prove nor disprove God. That leaves us with a curious question of how to determine which is more likely. Preponderance.

There are some things that God has claimed are his, miracles, answered prayers, callings, etc. And when we examine the evidential record, well, they are indeed there. We cannot prve that they originate from him, but he predicts that they will happen ... and they do. Its is suggestive, but certainly not - on an intellectual level - conclusive. Yet it does lend the intellectual basis of faith, that requirement, creedence.

In sharp contrast, atheist in this thread deny that there is such a thing as miracles at all - they predict that, because there is no God, there are no miracles. So when they ARE documented, theior prediction fails. The preponderance of the claim does NOT support atheism - thus there is a greater leap of faith, a wider gap to bridge to claim that atheism is the correct answer.

Most profoundly though? THousands of years ago, God told us that only faith leads to him - not knoweldge. And now, thousands of years later, infinitely more knowledgeable, its still faith that leads to God. Knowledge alone continues to mystify where God is concerned.

 

When was the 'prediction' made though? I'm quite certain that things which could be called miracles happened before the bible.

 

Depending on the individuals definition of agnostic-deist, it may be an empty parachute. You can call yourself agnostic or pretty much anything else but if you don't believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and your saviour that was crucified and died on that cross for your sins, then you will never enter heaven. That's pretty much cast in concrete according to scripture. Also, you can't disbelieve all your life with the knowledge that you will recant when the time comes. It doesn't work that way.

Not neccessary. I just thought that if you're going to imply something on an open forum you would clarify it here also. I don't like to continue forum discussions in a PM. Again, I'm not out to bait you. You're ok with me.

You mean no atheists in foxholes? I explained that above but first of all, just to clarify, I'm not any stronger or weaker than a theist in any way, shape, or form and I'm sorry if I gave that impression but I still stand by what I said. Faith in God gives mental tranquility for those that truly need it. The
only thing I care about is that it works for them.

Another thing is that I like debating religion with people who like to debate religion but I won't debate outside a forum. I don't preach atheism and I still go to church to see the man that thought he was dying for me even though I will never believe He was any God. Many people there know me and know I'm athiest but they also know I won't debate them. This is part of MY mental tranquility along with some cosmological reasons for believing that all this will happen again as it has happened eternally. But, that's a different subject.

I see no handicaps.

Bettina

 

No substance. All Ad Hom without support.

 

I experienced divine intervention.

On top of that events unfolded in my life that I believe had a guiding hand outside myself.

You don't think that's kind of creepy? Hey I no judge do what you gotta do friend.

 

That is what mental health organizations and anti-psychotics are for!! They are there to help people who have visions and "experiences."

 

And so anti-depressants, life coaches, anonymous forums, the vanity of words, putting those of faith down, etc. are for those who have nothing else to fall back upon but themselves, and their own little futile minds with no answers on how to solve the problems of the human condition in this life...thx for providing an example.

 

Nope, belief in God is entirely sane, so I do not denigrate all people of faith. Belief that the psychotic episodes you have had in your life, that somehow represent the creator of the universe(or one of his agents) personally contacting you, is NOT!! It is a sign of some sort of mental disorder, which it would behoove a person to deal with!!

 

Did teh mod warning of off-topic accusations have no impact upon you?

We've been down this road before, all its breed is a fatal attraction and inability to participate civilly in the CURRENT debate. But I guess that reality is just a spurious ad hom?

Let it go child.

 

Of course, God existed before the Bibel did he not ...

 

But did any of his 'predictions'?

 

Where do "I" sign up for the looney bin, then??

I've had divine intervention many times; as a long-haul trucker driving mtns in snow & ice, put into all kinds of precarious positions, have come 'near' accidents, death, and killing innocents around me in traffic...but dont have a scratch on me, truck/rig, or other persons. But you would have to be riding with me those 8 yrs to know what I'm talking about...I hope that you get the 'opportunity' to have your life on death's doorstep (as I have, having been curled up and unconscious with pain) as well as on the fine-line of catastrophe as my trucking experiences, to discover a God of super-natural deliverance....all those times, 'peace' rose up within me and I 'feared not.'

That is what scripture calls, "The peace of God that passes all human understanding."

 

I have. I was driving on I-57 in Illinois, back from college my sophomore year to spend thanksgiving with my family in Chicago, when I saw a police car had pulled some one over to the side of the road. The road was curved, and it was dark and icy rain was coming down. As I rounded the curve, I realized that for whatever reason the police car had not pulled over behind the car, but had instead pulled up next to it, and was sitting in the lane I was driving in. With the distance and the road conditions, it was likely impossible I was going to be able to stop before plowing into the car. I had no seat belt on, and I slammed on the breaks. My car fishtailed, and slammed into the bed of a semi-truck driving in the lane next to me. That impact, changed my course, and sent me rolling down into the ditch on the side of the rode. Hitting that truck meant I didn't even have a scratch on me, and at least saved me from serious injury, at best saved my life.


You know what, I am certain God had nothing to do with it!! People have near death experiences ALL THE TIME!! In fact, hundreds happen around the world every day(some people have actual death experiences). Why did God choose to save me and not the other people? Am I really that arrogant? More importantly, if there are hundreds of something happening every day, wouldn't that imply that the phenomenon is entirely natural? It most certainly does!! It requires NO divine intervention. I was lucky, as many other people are. Others are unlucky, God has no role to play in the question.

 

My recollection of your history is that you were 'religious' and then thru disappointment(?) changed your belief system and have been both angry and yet still seeking for answers ever since. And you have to rebel on this forum so as to protect yourself from future hurt or the disappointment of false trust.

I can give "1" occurrence such as you went thru as 'dumb luck;' but when trusting in God becomes a way of life over many years, one's eyes become open to His daily grace on their lives....I just hope that the hurt & disappointment that you have experienced havnt hardened your heart beyond the possibility of ever being restored.

As scripture says, With man things are impossible; but with God NOTHING is impossible."

I wish you a safe 'return trip' back home...OD

 

You do not recall correctly. I was religious, but never had a negative experience with it. I went to religious schools(catholic) growing up, and some of the teachers I had at those schools are still in my life today. I am thankful for the input they have had in my life. I simply slowly grew away from my faith. At 14 I was devout. At 16 I was a believer, but less devout. At 18 I was unsure, and called myself an agnostic. At 21 I was an atheist, and I have been ever since!! I am not bitter about it, or unhappy about it!! I do not believe life lacks meaning without God, I actually believe it has more meaning without God(or at least without an afterlife). If there is no afterlife, then this life is everything we have, and cherishing it becomes all the more important!! Alternatively, if it is just a few decade long test, for an eternity of living in paradise or unimaginable torture, what actual meaning does this life have? No, you are wrong!! I am an atheist who thinks religion is an ok thing. It is neither inherently good nor inherently bad. It can be both at different times for different people. I just believe it isn't true.


I am also on a path in life I am happy with, I love my parents an extraordinary amount, and I have a smart, kind, and attractive girlfriend. I am not trying to brag or anything like that, I am just explaining that this is NOT about bitterness or being lost or anything else of the sort!! It is far more complicated than that!! There was NO break in my religiosity, or at least no major break. There was just a slow decline resulting in a complete lack if religiosity.

 

They exist as soon as he makes them. And the fact that he claims them, and all other altenrtae explanations fall flat?

What else claims them? Have you applied that over the course of thousands of years to test it viability? Or simply waving the hand, or better yet, pulling an ostrich, the better methodology when approaching the question of God?

Preponderance, not conclusiveness is the best we can get.