A genuine thank you to “Mohammad movie” producer Sam Basile

Actually I think you make an excellent point!

Bin Laden didn't kill anybody on 9/11, he wasn't directly responsible for the death of those 3 000, yet he was responsible because he incited the 17 men to high jack the planes and fly them into the buildings.

While Bacile or whatever his real name is didn't kill the four Americans directly, it was his film which caused the protests and lead to the death of 4 innocent American diplomats. So, using the same logic which found Bin Laden directly responsible for 9/11, that should mean he is just as responsibly as the murderers, no?

And since FreedomSeeker loves comparing people to Hitler.... Hitler wasn't actually responsible for killing all those people. However, he was held responsible because he played with the Germans emotions and influenced them to do it.

Yes, there are MASSIVE differences between this movie and 9/11, however I am not comparing (or justifying) either of these acts. I am only comparing how the men held responsible were linked to their respective acts, and why Bacile is guiltless of his while, in a way, doing what the other two did.

 

Surely you don't mean the part of the Quran which compares the Jews who break the Sabbath to apes and pigs?

 

I'm the only person in Oklahoma who doesn't care for football. Though I try not to admit it here. Mobs might form.

 

You see, you obviously misunderstood what exactly my post was talking about.

Please, go back and read it again, while also reading the post I quoted. More specifically, the bolded part of said post.

That should clear everything up for you.

 

that was my point....

 

I think many people don't understnd at all.

Christians can generally laugh at spoofs about Jesus or the patriarchs... And we are real big on freedom of speech.. but among Muslims insulting Mohammed or the patriarchs just isn't done.

And WE cannot jam our notions of free speech down their throats.

The Egyptian Christian knew EXACTLY what he was doing and how offensive it was.

He then blamed the Israelis for his movie and asked for police protection.

Since he is out on parole for financial crimes and meth production, he may go back to jail for parole violations.. He was forbidding to use the internet as one of the terms of the parole.

 

I often don't agree with you, but I gotta say you're one of the smartest Muslim posters I've ever encountered. You make a reasonable point.
But I think that the film producer is not inciting HIS FELLOW COPTS to kill "infidel" Muslims (it's MUSLIMS who killed the 4 Americans), whereas Bin Laden incited HIS fellow religionists to kill infidels. If Copts were doing the killing, then yes, the producer and Bin Laden could be considered the same, I suppose.

 

So the Bin Laden and Hitler were innocent? As they murdered nobody. Well, maybe Bin Laden did. But he didn't kill anybody who died on 9/11.

I would hope you can see the point being made here, that somebody does not need to physically kill somebody to be held responsible for the death of people.

Another example, Charles Manson.

There are many other examples of this.

 

OJLeb, if you HAD to choose only one, who would you say is better for humanity, terrorist Bin Laden OR ("truth-telling", in my opinion, but you don't agree - that's ok) producer "Sam Basile"?

 

Charles Manson would be a good example, he killed no one, but does anyone think he is innocent?

 

Bin Laden was responsible for way more deaths, so that is a easy one, terrorist Bin Laden, but that really lowers the bar for the producer doesn't it

who's actions were worse on 9-11-2012?

should be a easy one too, Bin Laden is dead
.

 

Margot,

We aren't "jamming" free speech down their throats. They are "Jamming" totaltarianism down our throats.

Margot---think, think, think! If we practice free speech in OUR country. And they try to intimidate us to stop our free speech by our citizens in OUR country-- by killing Americans in embassies.

Who is Jamming What??????

 

Why does it have to be the inciters people to hold the inciter responsible?

They are still responsible for inciting the people involved, no? When you play with people's emotions, sometimes there are unforseen consequences.

This in no way excuses the murderers of what they have done, I cannot stress this enough, however to say Basile is not in any way responsible for the deaths when it was his film which instigated the protests - whether you agree with the protests or not - is unfair.

How is he less guilty for inciting Muslims than Bin Laden was?

But, we could also look at the example of Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller, who inspired Breivik to massacre 70 innocent people in Norway. Their hatred towards Islam incited Breivik. And what of the American who shot up a Sihks temple, mistaking them for Muslims? There are many examples of incitement which leads to violence and death, both past and recent.


If the film was truthful, there would not have been any riots. The life of Muhammad (pbuh) is very well documented in the Hadith collections. If the film was based on that, then why aren't there protests against the Hadiths?

I advised you all to watch, The Messenge, a movie about the Prophet (pbuh) and Islam which lead to no protests or violence. It's an oldie, but it is also available on YouTube.

 

This 2 hour feature film was dubbed in Arabic for a purpose. Americans could care less, and the Arabs are NOT hampering our freedom of speech.

There are literally tens of thoousands of Americans who have lived and worked in the ME and North Africa for decades who NEVER felt the need to mock or insult Islam or the prophet.

If this guy.. this Egyptian Christian is so innocent, why did he blame it on the Israelis?

 

This "Allah" fellow teaches hatred towards Jews, that's why Muslims even 1400 years later have so much hatred for the Jews as to try to deny the Holocaust, call for the extermination of an entire people today, etc. I bet the texts of modern Secular Humanism don't, anywhere, refer to an entire group as "apes and pigs".



Jews:
According to Islam, the ancient Jews were turned into animals for transgressing the word of God.[11] This divine punishment is mentioned in the most important sources of Islamic religious law, in both the Koran's recounting of the divine revelation, and in the extremely reliable Hadiths (traditions of the Prophet Muhammad) compiled by the leading ninth-century sages Muslim and Al-Bukhari,[12] which mention also mice, lizards, and other animals in the same context.
The divine punishment of Jews is mentioned in three Koranic verses: "... They are those whom Allah has cast aside and on whom His wrath has fallen and of whom He has made some as apes and swine..." (5:60); "...You have surely known the end of those from amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath, in consequence of which we condemned them: Be ye like apes, despised" (2:65);[13] and "when, instead of amending, they became more persistent in the pursuit of that which they were forbidden, we condemned them: Be ye as apes, despised" (7:166).[14]
Source: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/memrireport.html
It says that Verse 5:112-115 refers to Christians, but is less clear that references to the Jews.

 

Trust me, most people DON'T know about Mohammad...but this film will help that.

Also, they haven't mocked or insulted him because they value keeping their heads attached to their bodies.

 

It's no contest, Basile.

But that isn't saying much.

Both use hatred to inspire violence. Only Bin Laden had more money, more power, and more support. So, naturally, he was the more dangerous one.

But both went into hiding as others killed for them.

Basile is really just a fad. Like Terry Jones. In time, this will pass. Unfortunately it will not be forgotten by some, most importantly the family who lost their loved ones because of this whole thing. As if they didn't have enough to grieve about on this day.

 

Its ironic that conservatives and liberals are praising this idiot for free speech, he is probably working for the terrorists, why would he release his flame bait movie on 9/11?

He's from crazy land, an arab like them, he knows how they will react, either that or he was working with them to do this.

 

I just realized that our government "outted" the film-maker---putting his life in danger and intimidating anyone else from even considering creating a film that criticizes Islam.

Hmmmmm but so many people miss the significance. It truely shows the decadence of our country...how spoiled we are.

I stand behind this man. And only those who love freedom would.

 

Good post.

 

Your ignorance of Islam is very, very obvious... but your recklessness is worse.

You apparently have NO respect for yourself or others.

 

It wasn't released on 9/11, it was released in California (or at least it had a real theater showing, very few showed up) months ago.

 

You do realize that Bacile was claiming that this was an Israeli project funded by 100 Jews, don't you?

 

If I'm not mistaken you haven't answered my question to you in post #67, so I'll ask again: "So specifically what about the film's claims about Mohammad are untrue?"

I'm not sure you want to answer this question, because I think the film is virtually ALL true. He didn't NEED to lie because the truth is bad enough about Mohammad.

The SECOND I learned that my prophet (if I was a Muslim) was a pedophile, or warlord, or rapist, etc. I'd walk out of the mosque (but wouldn't tell anybody I was now an apostate because Mohammad approved of killing apostates) right then and there! If he was any of these things, then no all-knowing, all-powerful "god" would pick him to be the "best role model of all time"!

You say I have no respect, well you are right that I have no respect for.....pedophiles, cold-blooded murderers, bandits, killers of black dogs for no sane reason, a person who has brain-washed 1.5 billion of my fellow humans, a person who has caused women to be JAILED because they simply could not produce four pious male Muslim witnesses to their rape! THE RAPE VICTIM IS JAILED, BECAUSE W/OUT 4 WITNESSES SHE'S CONSIDERED AN ADULTERER!! Sick!

 

Oh! NO, I missed that! Well....now I understand why those muslims murdered the Americans.

Thank you Margot...for making things so clear for me.