Abortion FOUR TIMES DEADLIER Than Childbirth!

Really. Women who have abortions wanted them on some level, or knew it was the best option even if they would have preferred otherwise.

http://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpress...7nb5z5&chunk.id=d0e5301&toc.id=&brand=ucpress


Making abortion legal improved public health: overall maternal mortality dropped dramatically. In New York City, maternal mortality fell 45 percent the year after the state legalized abortion. "In 1971," city health officials reported, "New York City experienced its lowest maternal mortality rate on record." California and North Carolina reported similar improvement.[4] Septic abortion wards closed. As a public-health measure, the legalization of abortion represented an improvement in maternal mortality that ranks with the invention of antisepsis and antibiotics.[5] In countries where abortion remains illegal, abortion is a
― 247 ―
significant contributor to maternal morbidity and mortality

And women who DON'T terminate an undesirable pregnancy are not respected by society. If you respect women, you know they must be allowed to make their own choices. If you don't trust women to make their own choices, you don't respect them either.

I said they don't NEED to advertise. Are you sure this is an accurate depiction, I don't think "lifenews" can be trusted.

 

Incredible. A fake study from a guy, David Reardon, whose anti-abortion Eliot Institute has two employees and is an electrician who received a "PhD" from an unaccredited correspondence school.

Aside from all the erroneous claims made, can you name the number of women who died as a result of back alley abortions prior to abortions being legal?

At least 10k yearly.

 

Please, there's nothing to indicate this organization does abortions, the website offers support for new mothers. The most advertisement is done by crisis pregnancy centers, you know, the ones that lie to women.

http://www.naralva.org/what-is-choice/cpc/common-lies.shtml

CPC Lie #1: "Abortion causes breast cancer."....


CPC Lie #2: "You'll probably never be able to have children again if you have an abortion now."......

CPC Lie #3: "Condoms don't work."....


CPC Lie #4: "The abortion pill, RU-486, is dangerous and not medically safe for women."......


CPC Lie #5: "Birth control and the 'morning-after pill' are abortifacients.".....

CPC Lie #6: "Abortion causes women permanent psychological and mental damage, including 'post-abortion syndrome.'"...

CPC Lie #8: "Abortions cost much more than carrying your baby to term."....


CPC Lie #9: "Surgical abortion is very dangerous and can kill you.".....


CPC Lie #10: "You have plenty of time to make a decision. One-third of all pregnancies end in miscarriages anyway."......


CPC Lie #11: "Your baby can already smell and hear you," "Your baby already has a heartbeat," or "Your baby can already feel pain."....

 

The study he is quoting is a valid study - it is just the extrapolations from that are so whacked out as to be hilarious

even a cursory look shows some of the claims to be very very suspect

http://afterabortion.org/2000/abortion-four-times-deadlier-than-childbirth/

SAY WHAT????????? Abortion makes you four times more likely to die from an accident than not having one......................

Hmmmmm - yeah riiiiiiiiiiiight!

Correlation is not the same as causation

However it could be true if one considers that a woman who is pregnant and continues the pregnancy will often have her ability to do things like extreme sports restricted and then of course it could be correct - but you would get the SAME outcome if you locked all women into harems and stopped them from say driving and swimming........

 

In your opinion……and you base your opinion on the basis that life is cheap..that the life in the womb is nothing. I love what Mother Teresa said about this…

"But I feel that the greatest destroyer of peace today is abortion, because it is a war against the child - a direct killing of the innocent child - murder by the mother herself. And if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell other people not to kill one another? How do we persuade a woman not to have an abortion? As always, we must persuade her with love, and we remind ourselves that love means to be willing to give until it hurts. Jesus gave even his life to love us. So the mother who is thinking of abortion, should be helped to love - that is, to give until it hurts her plans, or her free time, to respect the life of her child. The father of that child, whoever he is, must also give until it hurts. By abortion, the mother does not learn to love, but kills even her own child to solve her problems. And by abortion, the father is told that he does not have to take any responsibility at all for the child he has brought into the world. That father is likely to put other women into the same trouble. So abortion just leads to more abortion. Any country that accepts abortion is not teaching the people to love, but to use any violence to get what they want. That is why the greatest destroyer of love and peace is abortion. "

This says it all. We are a nation that has turned its back against goodness and virtue….we stand up for the rights of animals….gays….women….and we have turned out backs on that which we have reproduced….the life in the womb. We disgard it like it is trash…and then people who hold positions like you mock and demean those who do value life. This is a fight against world views, light and dark, heaven and hell….belief and nonbelievers. And your side is winning…..that is until the end, when the Lord will pour out His Wrath on the World for injustice and unbelief. So mock all you want…..we will see in the end who was right won't we.

My pet issue…..that comment you made about me makes me sick. That shows your heart…or lack of one that is. Your position disgusts me…For you to say that I don't care about anything else…when I work helping people…just shows…you got no clue…..none at all….nada.

 

You really want to talk about mother Teresa yet call his comments sick? Mother Teresa can only be described as a vile grotesque woman who told people in poor areas with high amounts of HIV to not wear condoms which probably caused the deaths of thousands worked with some of the most evil rulers of Hatia yet never gave money to the people, what she did do with the money was far worse people talk about death beds now she practically endorsed them by setting up buildings where terminally ill people would lay on the floor with 40-50 people in the same room giving minimum medication though the ones that did weren't much better as they weren't keen on cleaning equipment.

You really want to base moral teachings on this woman. You can call yourself pro-life all you want but don't ever call that woman pro-life or put her up to be she was the exact opposite.

 

Skeptical Heretic said,

Then make everything legal. Don't have rules and laws to protect the populous at all. Should we allow women who abort…to be able to make money off it? Sell the fetal body parts? Its her body….so shouldn't people be able to sell organs?

But if your for legalized abortion and truly free choice then late term should not bother you a bit. You should petition for it to be made legal.

 

Personal freedom? What about the freedom of the unborn baby?!
A woman seeking to abort her perfectly normal healthy baby obviously does not give a crap, nor is she making her decision based on what is in the best interests of the baby. Given the situation, should she really be allowed to choose the fate of her child?
I support the right to choose... if the baby still wants to be aborted when he becomes older and is able to give his informed consent, go ahead.

 

OKgrannie said,

"You need some evidence for this assertion, and Live Action has been proved to distort their videos with "heavy editing", ASA lying."

It would not matter what they did or anyone did for that matter….nothing would be proof enough for you….nothing.

And your information is faulty given by organizations that are rabidly against the unborn in the womb that champion the power women have over their children. If you think mine is bogus….then we can say the same about your information. Can your sources be faulty? ARe you saying that NO ONE HAS DIED OR WILL DIE FROM ABORTION IN THIS COUNTRY? You can't make that claim…you simply do not know or have all the records or facts. You have no clue the cases that get to court the ones settled. REad LIME 5…there are actual documented cases…thousands of them in that book.

Legalization has meant millions murdered by the hands of doctors who are supposed to save lives not take them. The fact is skippy that you don't know the truth. PP has even said that the coat hanger cases were over exaggerated and a small number of women took their lives trying to kill. But should we as a society legalize something so heinous as abortion just for a few cases that might occur? The fact is when abortion was legalized the cases of abortion went up…it sky rocketed…and women could have sex and know they could kill their children. It is used as birth control today. Over
2,500 abortions happened today in the US. 997,000 have happened this year alone. 55,567,000 since Roe was made law….PP did 6 million in the name of women's liberation. Over one billion worldwide…..since Roe. And you champion every single one don't you?

The ones who value and cherish life….unlike your sides position. Life is nothing for you people.

No why would you say they are? They are encouraged however by people like you. Kill on demand for any reason eh Grannie….especially because the woman has the power..to kill. That is an aphrodisiac for the people whose position is like yours. Who cares if a life is killed….especially in the ninth month…when you still champion the power.

 

Don't twist my words I don't like it, I have never said we should abolish laws. As for selling organs I would support it if it was practical in a philosophical way I see no reason to not allow them to do so practically however it's too corruptible for example if organs were on the free market you may generate a market for them therefore bringing the case of people eventually taking organs for profit. I am more inclined to look at the practical side of things anyway.

Though like I said there is a difference between a viable fetus and a zygot and if you can't see the difference then I implore you to seek help or read a biology book. I propose a way for mothers to choose to end their pregnancy before the fetus is viable or actually generates a fully developed nervous system (at least to the point of maturity to feel pain and awareness) and although there is some debate among scientists I can tell you without a doubt it's not conception more along the lines of 18-29 weeks is the biggest debating field though again even then it goes more into 24 week territory and again evidence is what matters.

If you want to know my opinions ask for them I don't like people implying things unless it is actually implied by it.

 

Freedom is a right and derives from personhood (or in some cases citizenhood) if you want to prove a fetus or zygot is a person you are going to need a lot of evidence. Though I hate it when people say "unborn baby" it's about as accurate as calling a person a living corpse what it will become is irrelevant.

 

Skeptical Heretic

First of all what would you know about a woman who dedicated her life to helping the poor. She never sat at a computer like you are bashing those that do good works. She lived in the poorest of nations among people who had nothing. She had nothing. You would not recognize sacrifice like that…because you are the opposite I am sure. I can say no more…about what I really think of you….that would surely get me banned. She stands for everything you are not…lets put it that way. Sometimes people are so darkened by evil they can't see light……I am not a Catholic but even I can see the sincerity and love with which this selfless woman stood her ground and stood for the truth.

She stand for something you can't possibly comprehend. I won't try…..your incapable of it.

 

Oh boy could I give you a few classifications…but that would be against the rules isn't it?

 

Please explain what is wrong with it like I said freedom is a right that derives from personhood or citizenship depending how you look at it. Please point out what's wrong with that because I may in fact be wrong here or maybe my terminology wasn't correct either way if you have something to the contrary please say so.

 

Dedicated her life to helping the poor? Ha! She supported dictators and never once actually addressed what the people wanted, like I said she supported the dictator in Hatai and said the people respected him. When people were killed by a chemical spill instead of helping the people get reparations she told them to not go after the corporation that killed many people. She petitioned for the end of contraceptives which could of saved thousands and had death beds in Calcutta where instead of actually helping the people thought that it was better to let people die in horrible conditions.

This is actually documented the woman was an evil fraud. You don't know anything about my life so you can judge it however you like but the fact you support this vile woman is telling. I understand why many people do support her, ignorance is bliss but when you actually do go into what she did defending her is disgusting to say the least.

 

A complete total lie from Hoveland !? Surprise surprise !

 

Stupid people come in all colors .. no suprise there. The bottom line is that most lifers are that way because of religion.

There is no justification for being anti choice from science or logic .. this only leaves religion.

 

You don't need to worry about finding adequate proof until you provide ANY.

There are no organizations that are against "the unborn in the womb" either rabidly, lethargically, or anyway at all. Many women died from abortion in this country before 1973. Since then, not many.

About the same number of abortions were performed before legality as afterwards. And it would be even easier today to flout the law.

We will never come to an agreement on abortion or anything else so long as you desire to put people on "sides." The abortion issue, like all others, consists of people from one extreme to the other, and all positions in between, the moderates. They don't need to be characterized as being on one side or the other. This "side" stuff is simply done by a few in order to demonize a position those few disagree with.

That's a bizarre accusation to make, and one has to wonder why you would think of such a thing! Is it perhaps the thought that is going on in YOUR mind?

 

Given the quality of your posts it's kind of funny how arrogant you are. Maybe your mom was just being supportive when she told you you were gifted, do you think? Not everyone who disagrees with you is stupid.

Tell that to pro-life atheists.

Confessions of a Pro-Life Atheist

quote: Personally, my pro-life beliefs belong to the discoveries in science. While I am sympathetic to women's rights and would even consider myself a Feminist as would any man who believes in gender equality, the right to life outweighs our personal discomforts.

quote: After a couple years of researching the issue I decided that I would adopt an anti-abortion position based on the scientifically accepted conclusion that conception was the formation of a unique and living member of the human species. This was done absent of religious arguments

Only a scientific illiterate would deny that 1) Human life begins at conception. 2) Unborn humans at varying stages of development feel pain, have a heartbeat and motor function, etc.

Don't use pseudo-science to justify stripping vulnerable humans of their basic rights.

 

Wow that's a lot of ill-informed hate in one post!

From Saint Peter’s Square to Harvard Square

quote: ‘We have found no consistent associations between condom use and lower HIV-infection rates, which, 25 years into the pandemic, we should be seeing if this intervention was working.”
So notes Edward C. Green, director of the AIDS Prevention Research Project at the Harvard Center for Population and Development Studies, in response to papal press comments en route to Africa this week.

 

Always better to quote research than opinion

[/QUOTE]http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0277953696002584?via=sd
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2991537?uid=2&uid=4&sid=21101335023767

 

And yet further research would have shown you that human conception is a very very inefficient process with the vast majority of conceptions not implanting or surviving past the first week

Research would have shown you that reproduction is a gamble and not all conceptions are winners in the DNA stakes with some being so "jumbled" that viability will never occur



And this is not even one that is life threatening

 

Im not interested what you think about me or your claim to being a Feminist. What im interested in is science and logic in relation to the question at hand and so far you have provided none. What scientific discoveries have do you refer to and how do these relate to the question at hand.

A couple of years of study and this person obviously did not learn the most basic principles of Biology that apply and therefor is "an idiot". No support is given for Claim 1 and it is demonstrably false.

What lifers always fail to do is provide "the why".

1) Basic Biology teaches that animate does not come from inanimate. Living does not come from non-living. Human life does not come from non human life.

The sperm and egg are both "human life" which proves claim 1 false.

2) Claim 2 has nothing to do with conception as there is no proof that the single cell at conception feels pain or has a heartbeat.

So far you have not given any science or logic to back up your claim that human life begins at conception.

 

I believe one does not need to be born to deserve personhood. I believe as science says…life a human life starts at conception when the sperm and egg meet. This is scientific. I believe on the other hand apart from science that God created our beings…and knew us in the womb….before we were in the womb because he knows what we will do before we do it. Your not a believer you can't comprehend that. But you should comprehend what science says.

The way with which you talked about Mother Teresa was vile….I will leave it at that. Certainly she is not perfect she would be the first to admit that…but the type of language you used to describe her….was unbelievable. If she was all you say I can't imagine how you describe Hitler. But then maybe Hitler was one of the people you admire most in life…who knows on your warped scale of morality and truth.

I don't like you period….nuff said.

 

Giftedone said,

Something does not come from nothing, right….and although the sperm is alive and the egg is alive and they are both human…they are not an individual…a person. They make up PARTS. When the sperm and egg meet….come together they start a new human life.