That's just dumb. ^^. !st, the Corvair was demolished in a 2MPH crash test.."American Industry" had no business putting that death trap into the marketplace and risking lives...very irresponsible of them. The Volt is the result of Obama's 'git 'r done' edict. "American Industry" should hang it's head in shame for foisting it on us. Would you be as supportive of GE if they produced and marketed a microwave oven that blew up within an hours use? A lot of "stupid Americans" see the forest and not just the tree. The Obamamobile has a serious 'short' in it. It's not un-American to realize it.
If your going to be consistent, how many are going to boycott your own city and state. Now the Federal Government isn't bailing them out, but you are. All those good pensions and benefits state and city employees are getting are bankrupting them. Taxes are being raised and services are being cut to pay for them and for the VERY SAME REASONS GM AND CHRYSLER WENT UNDER. Lets not forget the US Post Office. You guys want to be consistent don't you?
Corvair Handling and Stability "Didn't these things roll over?" There it is again, that question. Corvair owners know it well, and many have nearly worn themselves out answering it. It's the Nader question, and most people have heard something about Nader and the Corvair, but few truly know the facts. Bob Helt, a well known and longtime member of the Corvair Society of America (CORSA) is a tireless defender of the Corvair. After one of his visits to this site, he sent me a message encouraging me to present the facts about Nader and his charges against the Corvair. His comments appear below and are accompanied by some technical drawings and a few of my own remarks on the subject of the Corvair's handling characteristics. GOVERNMENT TESTS PROVE THE CORVAIR DOES NOT HAVE A HANDLING OR STABILITY PROBLEM By Bob Helt Nader's Charges In his 1965 book, Unsafe at any Speed, and several preliminary articles in the national magazine, The Nation, Ralph Nader charged that the 1960-63 Corvairs had a defective rear suspension that made them prone to roll-over and dangerous to drive. He claimed that they were prone to roll-over and loss of control. Although his facts were meager, his charges were hard-hitting and were picked up by all news covering organizations. Although only the first chapter of his book was devoted to the Corvair, that is the thing most remembered about his book, and most associated with Nader. As a result of his charges and subsequent U.S. Senate hearings there was a growing national concern about automobile safety, with the Corvair the center of attention. Thorough Testing Due to Naders wild charges about the Corvair and the national concerns for automobile safety, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) was authorized to run a series of comparative tests during the Spring and Summer of 1971 to demonstrate the handling of the 1963 Corvair against four contemporary competitive automobiles. Involved in the tests were The Ford Falcon, Plymouth Valiant, Volkswagen Beetle, Renault Dauphine, the 1963 Corvair, and a 1967 Corvair for reference. The test program was quite comprehensive and detailed. It was divided into four parts: a comprehensive search and review of all related General Motors/Chevrolet internal letters, memos, tests, reports, etc. regarding the Corvairs handling a similar search and review of all related public technical literature a review of all national accident data compiled by insurance companies and traffic authorities for the six cars selected for these tests a series of actual driving and handling tests designed to evaluate the handling and stability under extreme maneuvering conditions; and to push the test vehicles to their limits The Corvair Is Exonerated At the conclusion of these tests, the NHTSA released its 134 page report. It exonerated the Corvair from Naders charges, and said things such as: "The 1960-63 Corvair compares favorably with contemporary vehicles used in the tests," and, "The handling and stability performance of the 1960-63 Corvair does not result in an abnormal potential for loss of control or rollover, and it is at least as good as the performance of some contemporary vehicles both foreign and domestic." The complete report, PB 211-015, can be obtained from the National Technical Information Service (NTIS)*. An Independent Panel Agrees Because the NHTSA wanted to be as sure as possible of their approach, tests and conclusions, they then contracted with a three man advisory panel of independent professional engineers to review the scope and competency of the NHTSA tests. This review panel then issued their own 24 page report (PB 211-014, also available from the NTIS*). In their report, the Panel drew even stronger conclusions in support of the Corvair than the NHTSA. They said, "It is the opinion of the panel that the Corvair quantitatively meets or exceeds the standards set by contemporary cars in stability tests, cornering tests, and rollover tests," and, "for this reason the panel concluded that the 1960-63 Corvair does not have a safety defect, and is not more unstable or more likely to roll over than contemporary cars." Nader is Proven Wrong Wow, go back and read that again. No safety or handling defects in the Corvair! But does anybody know this? The news media all but ignored these conclusions. They apparently thought that Naders charges were of greater news value than the fact that his charges were all proven wrong. Even today, of those who know of Naders charges against the Corvair, few if any know that his charges were false and were proven wrong. No, the fact that the Corvair was exonerated of all of Naders charges was hardly publicized. It received little or no attention from the media. It is ironic that these false charges concerning the Corvairs handling and stability are all anyone remembers, and are the only story ever told in the Press, even though they have been fully refuted by actual tests. Nader, of course, built his career on these false charges. *National Technical Information Service, 5285 Port Royal Road, Springfield, VA 22161 http://www.corvaircorsa.com/handling01.html
What's that got to do with pointing out that the Chevy Volt sucks? The U.S. Postal Service fails because of it's massive inefficiency. (our mailman gets to my box around 4 pm. In his truck he carries a big bag of dog bones and cat munchies. As he delivers mail, he feeds stray dogs and cats. On Saturday, a woman delivers the mail (no goodies for animals) and I get it around 11:30. I went to the Post office to complain. I got a blank stare and a shrugging of shoulders.) Now, how do you propose we 'boycott' the city and state? If the people vote for anything in the many propositions on the ballot, if the Supreme Court here doesn't like it or disagrees...they negate it out of hand. WTF do you suggest? Locking and Loading?
In your opinion it sucks. An opinion from someone who doesn't own one and I'll bet never drove one. Those that have bought one, say they love it. Consumer Report in last month's issue says it has the highest customer satisfaction of any car on the road. So are we to believe you or them? Much like the Corvair. I don't propose you boycott anyone. I think I have showed you if you want to be fair, you have to boycott the airlines, the railroad, the banks, savings and loan companies, NYC, most of the states in this country. All of them have been bailed out. Well with all the post offices scheduled to close and postmen/women being let go, you might find out your going to get your mail late again.
Saturday routes are shorter as there's not business deliveries and you're dismissing the possibility that you're on the beginning of her route and the end of his. that happens to me with UPS.
I don't get on these boards just to argue. I don't get on them to trash people or organizations. I get on them to honestly discuss issues that are important to this country and correct things that I believe is wrong. I don't lie and I can almost always prove what I say. I am a Republican and lean Right, but my thinking is mostly center. I don't let the Party influence all my thinking and I have no problem pointing it out when I think Republicans AND Democrats are wrong. Many of you might get on here just to have fun arguing, bet that's not my thing. If I say something you can bet I believe it.
And I don't support any of those bailouts. How does this long rant make bailing out GM ok? We've been down this road before you and I. I've put more far money in GM than you have owning 2 GM cars purchased in the last 2 years. That does not mean I support them being bailed out. Why do you hate our system? GM would NOT have gone under. The union contracts would have been restructured. But you who claim to be a conservative somehow dont support the system correcting itself. Why? Why couldn't GM go bankrupt without our money?
You'll be lucky if they keep Saturday service. Citizen Services Postal Service $5.1 Billion in Red; Thousands Of Workers' Jobs In Limbo A new sense of urgency emerged Tuesday to save the U.S. Postal Service from disaster. It reported a $5.1 billion deficit for 2011 expected to grow to more than $11.3 billion next year. Postal Service executives pleaded with Congress to come up with a plan to save the 200-year-old American institution. It's likely to include layoffs of thousands of workers. "The Postal Service can become profitable again if Congress passes comprehensive legislation to provide us with a more flexible business model so we can respond better to a changing marketplace," Postmaster General Patrick Donohoe told the U.S. Board of Postal Governors at its meeting reporting the mail agency's dire situation. You can't continue to lose that kind of money; we need to change." - Joe Corbett The Postal Service deficit was not as bad as it could have been. The number was half of what was expected because Congress had delayed a $5.5 billion payment until Nov. 18 for retiree health benefits. But the cry for help was loud and clear at the Board of Governors which concluded that a major overhaul must take place immediately or the postal service would have to default on its payment. "We are cash-strapped," Chief Financial Officer Joe Corbett told the governors. Increases in standard mail and the Postal Service's package business were not enough to offset the "steady" decline in first-class mail use. Corbett said total mail volume dropped to about 168 million pieces, down almost 2 percent from 2010. Revenue was also down about 2 percent to approximately $66 billion. "You can't continue to lose that kind of money; we need to change," said Corbett, adding that the Postal Service remains in danger of running out of cash by next September. Tony Conway, executive director of the Alliance of Nonprofit Mailers, said the final lifeline for the Postal Service is a long way off. But he said the agency is in a "horrible financial position" with no way out except drastic cuts. "The organization has a footprint that is twice as large as it needs to be," Conway said. "There are too many people and services. Unnecessary plants have to be closed. Their payroll needs to get in order." Among the mandates likely to emerge from Congress: Curtailing Saturday delivery; Ending one-night overnight mail; Closing 3,700 rural post offices; Layoffs of more than 100,000 workers and reduction of worker and retiree health benefits. The Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee has approved a bailout plan. It heads to the Senate floor and to the House for action. The House bill would allow Postal Service to designate 12 holidays a year with no mail delivery service. In the meantime, the urgency of the situation is prompting the National Association of Letter Carriers to hire former Obama administration official Ron Bloom who oversaw the 2009 auto manufacturers' bailout as a financial adviser. He oversaw the restructuring of Chrysler and General Motors. The Postal Service's disastrous situation has been known for the last four years as first class mail volume dropped 22 percent as internet use grew stronger worldwide and customers turned to alternative services, including private companies such as Federal Express, to carry their mail. "The continuing and inevitable electronic migration of First-Class Mail, which provides approximately 49 percent of our revenue, underscores the need to streamline our infrastructure and make changes to our business model," Corbett said. Some positive news emerged from the Board of Governors' meeting: -The Postal Service continued to increase operating efficiency in 2011, including a reduction in work hours by 34 million despite an increase of 636,500 delivery points. -Its productivity gains were the result of effective workforce management, efficient use of materials and transportation, and continued advancements in the use of technology. -Since 2001, the Postal Service has reduced work hours by 28 percent, while delivering to almost 14 million additional addresses. -Package and standard mail for advertisements and magazines continued to increase.
I just keep answering the same questions over and over again. Please go back and read what I said. The answer to your question is there. I challenge anyone to prove me wrong in anything I have said.
Sorry, you don't get to claim you've already answered this question. Either produce your evidence or accept the fact you can't support what you claim.
I explained that too. They should have been allowed to go under and then they could have restructured without government help. But they didn't. That's over and done with. We can't go back and do that over again. But letting them go under now IS STUPID. They already have all those costs off their back. We have paid billions to bail them out that would be lost with no chance of getting one penny back if they go under now. Hundreds of thousands of people would be hurt. There is not one advantage of driving GM and Chrysler under now.
Its not over and done with. It goes to the heart of the issue. You can't be against the bailout and celebrate the results. And no they do not have all the costs paid up. They used government money to pay back government money. They still owe BILLIONS of dollars.
We can celebrate both the bailout and the results because the bailout was the right thing to do and the results prove it. I am sorry that you don't like that it has happened. Government has been bailing out private business in some form for the last 200 years. If you don't like it, well too bad. I am sure there is a country somewhere you can move to where it doesn't happen.
You tell me what advantage there is to focing them into bankruptsy now? You tell me that it won't hurt hundreds of thousands of people. You think your going to get any money back if they go under?
There, ya see? I am capable of learning something. This ^ makes sense...Still, the weekday guy does stop and 'talk to the animals' Every time I pass hs truck on the road, it's stopped and he's out and about somewhere.
Yea PA, if they are looking for a job why not move to China, GM's hiring there! GM Poised to Get Approval to Build $1.1 Billion China Plant
GM sells more cars in China then they do in the US. Do you think they could make cars here with the wages and benefits paid and ship them all to China and compete with those other companies building cars there? Should they give up all that profit they make by building them there?
The results do not prove it. They still owe Billions of dollars, the Volt which costs the taxpayer hundreds of thousands of dollars per car as been an abysmal failure. Explain how that's a success.
So we bail out all companies about to go under because it could hurt people? Do you even know what Capitalism is because you just supported Socialism.
So you are making the case for outsourcing American jobs? How about Whirlpool or John Deere? Would it be OK for them to do the same?
Bull(*)(*)(*)(*). We don't give a (*)(*)(*)(*) about that garbage. We don't want to throw more money down a (*)(*)(*)(*)ed hole. What about that do you not get?
