Atheists: where do you think we and the universe came from?

Dodge. I am not an atheist. But I accept you're dodging the question. You nor anyone else can answer.

Neither does anyone else ignore the Koran, bible, torah. They just know they are wrong. Strike 2.

- - - Updated - - -

Dodge 3. You're out. Insignificant. Have nothing. Thanks for playing.

 

Actually the SUN DOES NOT RISE!!!

The Earth's rotation on it's axis turns to allow all sides exposure to the sun except the Northern and Polar Regions for 30 to 60 days without sun a year depending upon how close to the pole you are.

Depending upon the Genetic Code of a person this will determine sex as well as whether a person is born with both sets or sexual organs or whether a person is homosexual and there are 1000's upon 1000's of documented cases of Homosexuality in various species of animals in nature.

If there is a GOD...and that is a BIG IF.....it would not be like anything advertized in any ancient religious text.

People of Faith at least in the U.S....have a right to belive and practice whatever religion or not they might have.

But as this is a debate forum it is the proper place to discuss issues that some people have either in their beliefs or in their lack of evidence to support such beliefs as I would NEVER attempt to tell someone what they should or should not believe in any other venue.

But here I can say that those people of Faith that actually believe such idiotic concepts that a GOD would have GENDER or that a GOD would care about what sexual orientation a person has or that a GOD if existing would allow such horror, violence, death of innocents...etc...in the world....well if such a GOD exists it is time TO FIRE THAT GOD'S A$$!!!!

It is a fallacy of logic to think that both Freewill and a GODS PLAN can exist at the same time.

For some people having FAITH and having some religion to believe in is a GOOD THING....as not all of us are capable of dealing with our mortality.

Personally I am capable.

And I feel perhaps if people understood that perhaps this is the one shot we have....maybe people would be nicer to one another and not take life for granted.

I have seen and experienced things that most people could neither handle or live with and I have seen cruelty and violence upon levels that are difficult to understand.

I am one of a very few number of people who is capable of not loosing my mind as I understand such people need to be removed from the Human Gene Pool.

And I sleep VERY WELL knowing that such people are no longer around hurting others in the most tortureous and dispicable ways.

GOD doesn't seem to care that such people exist...but at least I do.

AboveAlpha

 

why not just call reality.. reality.... and not assign myths to it

.

 

I don't believe we know enough to say any of that.

Our level of understanding is just not sufficient to make your statements on energy so meaningful as to suggest there has to be a god.

To those at certain times, the only logical answer concerning the stars was that God was moving a background that contained pinholes through which we can see light.

To those at certain times, God moved the sun.

Now, you say mankind is so smart that stuff we don't understand was done by God, because you see no other possible alternative (NOT that you see any actual evidence of God) - and that this time, you insist you are right!

I just do not see mankind as so darn smart that if we don't know how it happened, then it proves there is a god.

 

That is a tortured point, and it was only the point from which you started taking leaps.

And, you forgot your "frame" part.

 

The dictionary is a tortured explanation for discovering the meaning of the words Reality and Truth?

Why not just admit that you have only your own pre-set opinion against understanding that Truth is both born out of Reality and its image?
That way, the Bible can be discounted as having said this as described below:

Gen. 1:26 And God, (Father Nature, i.e.; Reality), said, Let us, (Truth and Reality), make man, (through the process of gradual evolution, ending in the finished Adam of Jesus),... Let us make man, (as a reflection of Reality, in his mind, able, through Truth, to immanently reflect the "I am" of this existence), IN OUR IMAGE, (after the spirit of our orderly panentheistic organization):
let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

 

I'm interested in what's going on in the ME.

And, the vast majority of the news we get is pretty much worthless.

Besides, it is an incredibly interesting language. It's construction has a mathematical precision and regularity that is hugely appealing. We don't find that in our own language, probably because it is a mixture of a number of sources. Also, our language doesn't have the religious constraint that Arabic has. We feel free to change the language, bringing along the Bible in numerous and varied translations. Arabic has a major core that is frozen by the Qur'an.

So, one can read ancient works while attempting to communicate in modern times. Plus, again, solutions in the ME will come from the ME, and for us to contribute, we need to understand them.

Since this is America and we make decisions in public, I really believe that we need one heck of a lot better understanding of what's happening. And, again, our news is total garbage, leading to a US population that is shockingly ignorant.

 

Science explains how things work. This doesn't discount God being behind it all.

God still moves the sun, and science explains how He does it.

 

He/she ought just quietly live his/her life and avoid telling others about his/her sex life which is the evil.

It is not evil to be gay, straight, or hermo.
The EVIL is in teaching the next generation that sex is fine,... regardless of what happens to the kids which will come.


CHILDREN NEED BOTH PARENTS
63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes. (Source: U.S. D.H.H.S., Bureau of the Census).
90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes.
85% of all children that exhibit behavioral disorders come from fatherless homes. (Source: Center for Disease Control).
80% of rapist motivated by displaced anger come from fatherless homes. (Source: Criminal Justice and Behavior, Vol. 14, pp. 403-26).
71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes. (Source: National Principals A Report on the State of High Schools).
85% of all youths sitting in prisons grew up in a fatherless home. (Source: Fulton County Georgia jail populations, Texas Dept. Of Corrections, 1992).
These statistics translate to mean that children from fatherless homes are:
5 times more likely to commit suicide
32 times more likely to run away
20 times more likely to have behavioral disorders
14 times more likely to commit rape
9 times more likely to drop out of high school
20 times more likely to end up in prison
Children from "fatherless families of single mother" homes are*:
15.3 times more likely to have behavioral disorders
4.6 times more likely to commit suicide
6.6 times more likely to become teenaged mothers
24.3 times more likely to run away
15.3 times more likely to have behavioral disorders
6.3 times more likely to be in a state-operated institutions
10.8 times more likely to commit rape
6.6 times more likely to drop out of school
15.3 times more likely to end up in prison while a teenage
73% of adolescent murderers come from mother only homes
Daughters who live in mother only homes are 92% more likely to divorce**
///
http://www.cato.org/publications/con...-state-crime-0

 

No, your division of truth and reality is tortured.

Most of the dictionaries we have are fine for social use.

 

Watch carefully to see whether Revelation works at as indicated below:

Rev. 6:1-8 (Amplified Theistic Evolution Biblel: http://kofh2u.tripod.com/id84.html)
And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the (seven) seals (OF SCRIPTURE, AS IF) I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts ([Ez 1:10], The Mass Social Group) saying, Come and see.

Rev. 6:2 And I saw, and behold (in 616 AD; Anno Hegirae) a white horse, (a page of history yet unwritten, speeding to its fulfillment: [Symbolic Dictionary]): and he that sat on him, (Mohammed: [Rev. 8:10]), had a bow (to send out his message: [Symbolic Dictionary]); and a crown (of a prophet) was given unto him: and he went forth (proselytizing), and to conquer, (beginning in Mecca and Medina, 630 AD).

And when he had opened the second seal (OF THE SCRIPTURES, AS IF) I heard, the second beast [Ez 1:10], (the Crowd Group) say, Come and see.

Rev. 6:4 And there went out (in 632-34 AD) another horse, (the Sunni usurper of Mohammed's Shiite Islam), that was red (with the blood of Ali's murder and the Book of SACRED WRITINGS: [Symbolic Dictionary]): and (religious and secular) power was given to him that sat thereon, (ABU BAKR), to take peace from the earth, ([Daniel 7:11; 11:30]: "to waxed exceeding great toward the south:" Egypt, the whole Arabian peninsula, Jordan, most all southeastern Africa, and "toward the east:" Persia, the Iran of today; Babylonia, or Iraq; Afghanistan, "and toward the pleasant land," Palestinia, once Israel, and beyond, Mesopotamia, Syria, Lebanon, Albania, Serbia, Kosovo, and substantial parts of Armenia), and that they should kill one another (in religious conversion by the sword): and there was given unto him a great sword, (THE KORAN).

And when he had opened the third seal (OF SCRIPTURE), I heard the third beast ([Ez 1:10], The Public Group) say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse (OF STATUS QUO AND NEGATION); and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand, (CHRISTIAN EMPIRE ON THE ONE, AND MUSLIM EMPIRE ON THE OTHER).

And I heard, (in 1492 AD), a voice in the midst of the four beasts, (i.e.; THE EGOISM OF THE WESTERN RENAISSANCE), say, (EUROPEAN-ARABIAN COMMERCE), A measure of wheat for a penny, (the mark of the resurrected seven headed economic beast: [Rev 13:3]), and three measures of barley for a penny (in renewed trade and commerce); and see thou hurt not the (PETRO) oil and drink not the wine (forbidden in Islam).

And when he had opened the fourth seal (OF SCRIPTURE), I heard the voice of the fourth beast ([Ez 1:10], the academic, educated, Integrated Group) say, Come and see.

And I looked, and behold a pale horse (OF FOREIGN COLONIALISM AND STAGNATION): and his name that sat on him, (BACKWARDNESS),...
... was Death, (POLITICAL OPPRESSION), and Hell (IN WORLD WIDE TERRORISM) followed with him.
And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, (ARABIA), to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts, (the Social Forces), of the earth.

 

?
I have spoken of Truth and I have referred to Reality, but I have NOT told you my definitions of either.

What do you mean "for social use?"
Dictionaries are so we can understand what we say to one another.

 

You're Muslim. I hate Muslims.

 

Reality seldom offers ideal circumstances.
Stats on American blacks are pretty depressing.
What should we do about it all?

 

lol -

All this time I've been arguing with a guy who claims to be Muslim, pointing out that there is no proof of god. And, I've spent the rest of this thread with the same points against Christians.

And, all you have is your hate - hate that makes you so consistently wrong, erasing every trace of brain power you might actually have.


You are a pure demonstration of one of the problems America faces.

 

Sure - that's an important purpose of dictionaries.

However, the meanings of the words in our language are not independent of context. And, most dictionaries are created to match certain contexts while ignoring others.

So, we have lots of dictionaries that completely omit scientific definitions or legal definitions or definitions derived from various systems of philosophy, etc.

Also, dictionaries do not give any significant exposition on the word's meaning. So, for example, the Merriam-Webster dictionary mentions science in its entry for "theory", but it doesn't explain where "theory" fits in scientific method - making it very easy to make huge mistakes in applying the word.


If you want to use the term "reality" as it may be found in a system of philosophy, you should probably refer to the system of philosophy, since simply looking up the word in some more socially oriented on-line dictionary doesn't really do the job.

Note that Mirriam-Webster has this entry for "Truth": "(3) often capitalized : a transcendent fundamental or spiritual reality"

 

It is very reasonable that a non Muslim would pursue an education in Arabic and herald the Islamic holy book.
I frequently state offensive and nasty comments about Muslims. I have never even known a Muslim. They seem to me the most unpopular people on the planet today.
Which American problem do I demonstrate?
What is it you hope to accomplish by arguing there is no proof of god with the faithful?

 

You are using biblical translations that appear by their very name to have an agenda, and then you are quoting individual verses or short passages with your own personal annotations.

Sorry. Not interested.

I will say, though, that the bible does contain terrorism. At Jericho, Joshua's men slaughtered every man, woman, child and animal, with the intent of demonstrating to other cities in the region that there was a huge cost of resistance. That meets every definition of terrorism and was blessed by God. There are other inhumanities that are blessed in the bible as well.

It is seriously important for mankind to move beyond those. We're progressing on some of them. We object to slavery. We object to terrorism. We stand for rule of law (including borders), political enfranchisement, freedom of religion, etc. We should not be confused by the bible in terms of what we stand for.

 

You are still totally blinded by your hate.

"Herald the Islamic holy book"?? This is totally your idiotic fabrication. I've OBJECTED to what it says about creation.

So, you're ready to hate someone without even ever having met such a person - more demonstration of the damage of hate.

Your hate is an American problem. If there are others like you (which I'm pretty darn sure there are), then that problem is multiplied.


Religious ideas feed into numerous decisions we make here in America. Ideas of "end times". Ideas of the purpose of mankind on earth. Ideas on the value of science. Ideas on violence in the name of God, terrorism in the name of God, war in the name of religion. Ideas on man's stewardship of Earth. etc., etc.

We are far better off as a species and as individuals if we can recognize that this planet belongs to all of us. We need to recognize that the America values of rule of law, freedom of religion, etc., etc. are hugely important.

 

Invoking reason in a debate with a believer is pointless. In the US society has put religion here in check. Churches here always cave to social pressure. If they don't, they disappear.
You used we several times... Who is "we?"

 

You said Arabic has a major core tjat is frozen in the Qur'an. Can you elaborate/explain that to me?
What state do you live in?

 

Unlike the Bible and OT, the Arabic words in the Qur'an are the same exact words as recited by the Prophet.

 

I am curious as to how the Muslim middle east was once a beacon of science, math, culture, and tolerance and today is oppressive and fundamental. My views come from history books, not my own experience...
Anyone here from the Middle East??

 

I said:

By "we" I meant America to emphasize what our role should be, but not to exclude other like minded peoples we find in this world.

 

Yes. I think it is also important even from a language point of view that the Qur'an itself calls for every individual to read this Book, while in Christianity we sustained hundreds of years of religious prelates calling for attention to themselves as the sole interpreters of the bible - and strongly discouraging reading of the Bible.

So, we had all of Islam studying the Qur'an in its native language, while there really was no similar language connection in Christianity.

Had Christians been interested in reading and studying the Bible for themselves, perhaps we would have more speakers of ancient Hebrew, the language of the Canaanites, today. And, perhaps Hebrew would not have changed as much as it has over the years, nor would it be spoken by so few people.