Atheists: where do you think we and the universe came from?

Interesting point of view which needs much discussion.

First, the Bible(s) tell us that they are closed to understanding in spite they do pass on much information which people need understand and abide by.

Rev 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

They apparently were written just so much discussion and thinking about them would take place.
This is rather like a discussion of a book which readers meet and give their own report on, each one a little different.
But together, we mandate all the different Learning Styles of everyone, and get a more general and universal idea about the writing itself.

Second, we are told by OT scripture that many different insights are to come to us in the end of the story:

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

And this was again repeated in the NT:

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

 

So you are a fizzy-cyst? LOL.

 

Yes.
Two hundred years before Jesus, this "god" had the Jews write down what became The Revelation.
In that writing which was discovered to have been Jewish before it was added to the NT, we read the promise that one empire/kingdom after another would rise up, and then fall down:

Rev. 17:3 So he carried me away (in the spirit of thought), into the wilderness (of my imagination) and I saw (as if) a woman, ...



.... (those who have Institutionized a system of sexual seduction into a failed matrimony), sit upon a scarlet coloured beast (of a brazen and corrupt sexually misdirected economic system: [Dan 3:1-5]), full of names of (Pagan) blasphemy, having seven heads:
(which existed in (1) Egypt, (2) Assyria, (3) Babylon, (4) Persia/Mede, (5) Greece, (6) Rome (7) the whole of Western Culture to follow)...



... having ten horns upon these seven heads:

(1. Undivided Empire; capital Rome: [305 AD],

2. Western Roman Empire: (Romulus Augustus): [to 476 AD],

3. Eastern Roman: Byzantine Empire, [1453 AD]

4. Charlemagne, [800 - 1000 AD]

5. Holy Roman Empire, [1200 AD-1492 AD]

6. Italy, [Renaissance, 16th century]

7. Spain, [17th century]

8. France, [18th-19th Century]

9. Britain, [19th-20th century]

10. Nazi Germany, [20th century])

 

Fabtastic. Thanks for showing me the light.

 

We should behave so that kids grown up and do what is right for them and their peers, especially when it comes to raising children they will have.
Family is the foundation for civilized life.
Children should be raised in families and use marriages for the same reason.

 

You may not believe the scripture, but check out the History and the cultures.
You will see that every society which rose up as a patriarchy or Christian community turned feminist and gay, then fell down.

Patriarchy VS Matriarchy is what the Bible is explaining here, and history will demonstrate it is correct:

 

...
so does this Reality demand we adapt to it, learn about it, find the Truth, and avoid extinction or not?
Is Reality the bottom line, our master?

Can sane people avoid Reality and live as if it can be ignored??

 

No idea.

Fascinating to wonder about.

Where do you think God came from?

 

No, I certainly did not say that.

I most usually refer to scientific method as science. And, that is a method of exploring our universe.

And, science does not claim to be able to identify truth.

 

I have no idea what point you are making with any of this.

We are not told what the Revelations 5 scroll contains.

And, the rest of your post also has no relation to the post of mine to which you responded.

 

Hmmm,...
Not Truth, itself, but true things which occur under experimental osbervation.
Facts are what Science calls these true things.

 

We are told which book: Rev 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

Seven seems to be the favored number of God as demonstrated by the scriptures themselves.

 

In science, a "fact" is a documented observation - like a particular type of thermometer in a certain location gave a certain reading at a certain time, at a certain pressure, etc.

Calling such an observation "truth" seems a little ridiculous to me.

I think you are working in an entirely different space than is science.

 

Observing that it takes 1 second for an object to fall from a given height evidences truthfully that the equations are correct.
These truths are what we use to build up our concept of what Reality does, and it laws.

 

Once again, science does not have any way of proving anything to be true. Facts in science are limited to documented observations.

The minute you apply any kind of logic (such as equations purported to describe motion) you are in the land of theory. And, for very good reason, there is no way to prove a theory to be true.

We can gain confidence in theories, though. We can duplicate experiments, check out what theories predict, etc.

This is important. One ramification is that when we consider incorporating science in decisions we make, it is not an effective strategy to wait for proof - since proof of a theory is not possible. We might wait for some additional test that might give us greater confidence, but confidence will always be less than 100%.

 

A person does not need to believe that there is no god(s) to believe that the universe has a naturalistic origin.
A person needs only to believe that there is not an all-powerful universal creator god in particular.

As for the naturalistic origin of the universe, it is fundamentally simple:
Everything that is possible, is actual.
There is only the illusion of a difference between the possible and the actual,
which is due to one's own position within the infinite possibilities.
The universe is an eternal and infinitely large mathematical generator of all possibilities,
which are generated by the combination of time and the laws of physics.

 

Our universe is not infinitely large and its history includes unactualized history, which proves that not everything that is possible is actual.

Our universe is a virtual reality, and a virtual reality cannot create itself.

You have left consciousness totally out of the picture, despite the double slit experiment proving that awareness alters reality. Awareness can also disable a quantum computer.

The apparent sterile functioning of space-time matter has tricked you.

What's your explanation for the universe being eternal without violating the law of entropy? You do know that the universe is not a closed system, don't you? If it's not a closed system, then maybe you have only a little picture grasp of reality.

 

The only thing I think your missing is that because Quantum Processors work....and mear Conscious Observation by any being that is aware or conscious....thus the Observations of a Fly are just as effecting as the Observations of a Human when it comes to the act of observation locks in value and wave fuction of Quanta as they become LOCKED INTO OUR SINGLE DIVERGENT UNIVERSAL STATE OF REALITY the moment they are Observed by any life form that can consciously observe.

But our Universe is not a Virtual Reality.

The cause and effect occurrring in our Universe moment to moment present CHOICES to Consciously Observant Life Forms.

Now one thing is for certain and that is our Universal Reality is but ONE in an INFINITE NUMBER OF DIVERGENT ALTERNATE UNIVERSAL REALITIES and the reason why Universal Realities keep being Generated is because they must and already have as Time Human Beings perceive as LINEAR thus having a beginning, present and future then end.

But in REALITY Quantum Mechanics shows us that Time is actually SPACE-TIME and one cannot exist without the other....and that Space-Time exists at all possible time differentials existing in Divergent Universal States of our Baseline Universal reality and Grouping and within this Grouping all Physical Natural Laws are the same.

Other Baseline Universal groupings of Reality also have infinite in number Divergent Universal States but their Natural Physical Universal Laws are so different from our own as they might have different Space-Time Geometry where we could not exist within at all....or they might have systems and constructs so Alien to our Understandings we would not understand or perhaps not be able to percieve such realities.

AboveAlpha

 

?
Facts are things which are true.

Science uses the Facts to develop theories about what the facts mean.
You don't understand Science here.

When an experiment takes place, the results are published showing a Fact which other can also see for themselves.
EVERYONE can see that Fact.
It is a Truth about what Reality does.

scientific fact
noun
any observation that has been repeatedly confirmed and accepted as true

 

But in spite of what you say here,... you do believe that the ever unfolding Reality is the master and creator of the Universe and Truth is born out of it.
Right?

 

scientific fact
noun
any observation that has been repeatedly confirmed and accepted as true

 

Indeed, that’s worth mentioning. We know that probability distributions get narrowed down when awareness makes a sensitive aspect of the action known and no longer random. However, I don’t entirely buy it as sufficient because it doesn’t seem to account for the massive part of existence that is supposedly without witness. Individual life forms are not looking at every atomic or subatomic structure in stars, asteroids, magma, rocks, mountains, trees, etc to bring them into fixed reality.

Virtual reality is not ruled out just because we have cause and effect as well as availability of choices/free will. We will probably continue to disagree on the VR issue. The result of detector data erasure in the double slit experiment signifies that a digital consciousness management process is working behind the scenes. There is the further idea that our reality is a construct of consciousness. However, the scope of adequately addressing the VR issue would be too much to tackle here.

What this really means is that no way to account for possible separation of space and time has been yet discovered. In other words, science doesn’t like to acknowledge what it can’t account for. Elaborating non-spacetime reality from within the perspective of space-time is an understandably daunting challenge. Nevertheless, other subjective sources insist that non-spacetime realities exist.

You have process by which infinite possibilities come into play, but what assurance is there of infinities of realities gaining existence? The contending viewpoint is that failures are discarded and the least probable ones are not acted upon.

 

Here's a page from a university science program:

http://www.gly.uga.edu/railsback/1122science7.html

 

We do not understand our universe, but it arouses our curiosity, so we ask questions and the answers we get show us how to ask better questions. VOILA, the scientific method. Conversely, we could accept the contents of one very old book as the ultimate reality and punishing anyone who would question it. Then again, doesn't Marvel comic books prove the existence of superman?

 

Schnectady