Big Myth About Donald Trump, GOP Leaders Is Busted In Blistering New Ad

Absolutely
https://www.science.org/content/art...er-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital

The natural immune protection that develops after a SARS-CoV-2 infection offers considerably more of a shield against the Delta variant of the pandemic coronavirus than two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, according to a large Israeli study that some scientists wish came with a “Don’t try this at home” label.

The newly released data show people who once had a SARS-CoV-2 infection were much less likely than never-infected, vaccinated people to get Delta, develop symptoms from it, or become hospitalized with serious COVID-19.

The new analysis relies on the database of Maccabi Healthcare Services, which enrolls about 2.5 million Israelis. The study, led by Tal Patalon and Sivan Gazit at KSM, the system’s research and innovation arm, found in two analyses that never-infected people who were vaccinated in January and February were, in June, July, and the first half of August, six to 13 times more likely to get infected than unvaccinated people who were previously infected with the coronavirus.

In one analysis, comparing more than 32,000 people in the health system, the risk of developing symptomatic COVID-19 was 27 times higher among the vaccinated, and the risk of hospitalization eight times higher.

 

Some one else already listed total deaths for the US Florida doesn't make the top twenty.

 

That is false. Florida is fourth in total deaths, with 55,011, only behind California (69,443), Texas (68,380), and New York (55,998 ). Where in the hell are you getting your information???

Here, look it up:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

 

Again I trust world oneters as fars as I can throw a battleship. On top of which the reporting system is hugely flawed. Hospitals were getting bribed to label almost everyone who died as a covid death. They still are.

 

First, the numbers there are practically the same as the numbers given by hugely reliable Johns Hopkins University.

Second, no, the idea that the numbers are overestimated by hospitals committing fraud is just a talking point from the right wing. The total number of deaths can be easily verified by looking at the "excess deaths" in the "deaths by all causes" records, which are extremely accurate (if you die in the United States, except if a serial killer buries you in his backyard, your death will be counted), then you compare the pandemic time period with a period of the same length right before the pandemic, and you'll see that the "excess deaths" are actually more than what has been reported that the pandemic killed.

The "hospitals are getting bribed" BS ignores that hospitals get a 20% surplus from Medicare to TREAT Covid-19 patients. When a patient dies, issuing a death certificate calling the death from Covid or with Covid has absolutely no bearing on Medicare payments. At the time of the death, obviously Medicare STOPS paying for the care of that case. Anybody who tests positive during a hospital stay does qualify for the surplus given that the hospital incurs expenses to isolate that person, provide extra personnel to care for the isolation units, spend PPE anytime a healthcare worker must approach the person, etc., even if it's a mild case that is there for something else. That is, if then the person recovers or has a mild case but ends up dying of something else, there is NO INCENTIVE WHATSOEVER for the hospital to then issue a fake death certificate because the death certificate has no bearing on billing. This claim is utter and complete BS. By the way, hospitals as an entity don't issue death certificates. That's for the coroner or for the attending physician. It has nothing to do with the billing department.

By the way, hospitals are LOSING money by treating Covid-19 and not being able to schedule elective procedures. Medicare came up with the 20% surplus to keep hospitals afloat and to also compensate hospitals for treating the numerous uninsured Covid cases.

Would you want your local hospital to go belly up? But then, the right wing seized this as an argument to say that we are faking the number of Covid-19 deaths which is completely senseless.

Third, no, even if the numbers were unreliable, they'd be equally unreliable for New York, California, and Florida, so this particular issue is actually irrelevant to what we're discussing. But again, the numbers aren't even unreliable like you're saying. Stop drinking the partisan talking points Kool-Aid. Covid-19 is real, it is a killer, and the number of deaths if anything has been underestimated.

 

Yes everyone reports the same flawed data. Yes covid is real. No one is saying other wise. What we are saying is that the death toll for old folks that get the disease is well less than 1% . If we subtract those with preexisting conditions from that total it drops substantially. Almost no one under forty without preexisting conditions dies now. And literally no one under twenty with no preexisting conditions dies of covid. That's also from John's hopkins

 

This is with shutdown, masking, gloves, etc. You can't truly quantify without factoring in ACTUAL mitigation factors.

 

Except that countries that didn't do those things didn't fare any worse than countries that did.

 

Except the bribe in question was 15 k per covid patient regardless of Medicare medicaid status and thirty-seven k if a ventilator was used.

 

How are you saying that? 470 children have died of Covid in the United States, last I counted, a couple of months ago. There's been numerous cases of healthy and young people who died of Covid. Of course these cases are less frequent than those with co-morbidities and older age but they do exist. Also, I've been saying, death is not all. By now it is evident that 37% of survivors come out of it with at least one long-term symptom. The SARS-CoV-2 has a huge propensity to cause organ damage even in the people it doesn't kill.

The death toll for old folks that get the disease is well less than 1%???? Where are you getting your data from??? Johns Hopkins? You must have misunderstood. Give me a specific link saying that. I'm prepared to bet that you won't find any because the death toll for the elderly is much higher than that.

Pre-existing conditions: duh, 40% of the American adults are obese. Huge numbers, in the one hundred million plus, of people with hypertension and/or diabetes. Most Americans of a certain age do have pre-existing conditions.

Do you think this co-morbidity situation is only typical of Covid-19? Almost all death certificates for any senior citizen above 65 will typically have one or many co-morbid conditions. Live long enough, you'll get them. It doesn't mean that the cause of death is not Covid.

 

Why is it a BRIBE???? Shouldn't hospitals be paid for ICU care with a ventilator??? Like you said, payment is given for TREATMENT, not for the diagnosis on the death certificate. Jesus!

Also, frankly I resent your idea that this is a bribe. I worked for almost one year on the Covid-19 unit, exhausted, exposing myself and my family to a dangerous virus. I volunteered to help out there, given that my job description didn't force me to go work there, but they were short-staffed and I decided to tip in. Yes, I was given a dangerousness bonus my hospital had decided to implement to convince people to work there. This additional money was of no consequence for me. I'm quite wealthy already (both from the fruits of my decades of professional work - and my wife's who is also a doctor - and from independent wealth I inherited from my father), close to retirement, and that bonus made no difference in my decision to help out, and of course I didn't fake any death certificates.

During this pandemic I only saw compassionate and dedicated colleagues fighting the good fight. The idea that we're after "bribes" is preposterous and offensive.

What did YOU do to help out your fellow citizens, during this pandemic?

 

That is not true.
Your notions about Covid are very distorted.

 

Not all countries fare the same. Look at New Zealand, Japan, Vietnam, Iceland... there are numerous countries that did better than the ones that did not implement enough precautions. Japan for example had 98% of mask compliance and had a much smaller number of deaths per capita than most countries. Vietnam is #135 in deaths per capita. Japan is #147. Iceland is #158. New Zealand is #204. All these countries implemented strict contact tracing, quarantines, masks... and they fared well even before they started vaccinating expressive numbers of their citizens. Actually China as well, if we can trust their numbers... but if their numbers are accurate (I doubt it but maybe they don't deviate that much) they are #206, thanks to their Draconian containment measures (which wouldn't fly in more democratic countries - but it is a demonstration that containment measures can work).

 

I'd have to see the stats that confirm this.

 

Yes, stick to the facts. Once Trump banned direct flights from China, Pelosi went to China town and and told everyone "No worries. It's perfectly safe to be here"

Remember when NY'ers were dying at a terrifying at an alarming rate? The same time the democrats were sayings "Take the subway. Enjoy your life"



Democrats just have a very selective memory!

 

Jons_hopkins said all of those children, all 470 had preexisting conditions. Things like childhood cancers. I take it the phrase preexisting. Conditions is lost on you?

 

Again, send me the link. Nothing is lost on me, I just want real proof of what you're saying. Sorry, but I'd rather see a source than just take an opinion, potentially unsubstantiated or mistaken (as in, misunderstanding what Johns Hopkins said). Nothing against you, maybe you didn't misunderstand anything; maybe you are right, but if you are, then please do disclose your specific source so that I can get convinced.

If it's a question of misunderstanding the source, sorry but frankly I've seen so many cases here of lay people quoting a scientific source thinking that it says something, when it says something different, that I'm no longer just taking people's words for it.

 

Democrats bray they want each American to be vaccinated as I am vaccinated.
But they dishonor Trump who managed to get us a vaccine in record time. Vaccines normally take 5 or more years to get to us.
Trump did it in 10 months. As many lives as he has saved, why do Democrats hate him so much?

 

How much doud they get paid for treatment of non covid patients that died on the premises. That was in addition to normal Medicare and Medicaid patients and went even to patients with private insurance.

 

Compare the states data is essentially random.

 

If he was a Democrat, they would be swooning over him like they did for 40 years before he ran as a Republican.

 

Trump had vaccines for two weeks of his term; Biden has had it for nine months.

 

Ahhh, this is not specific and very cryptic. Do you have data to support what was claimed and hence asked for in the previous post?? It's OK if you don't because the way your previous post was stated, it appeared more as a fact than an opinion.

 

The data exists going back and looking it up again is more toublee than I'm willing to go to right now. Especially on my phone.

 

Look dude John's Hopkins is about the only place in the US actually doing de ent statisticalwork on all things Covid. You should be able to falsify my statement easily enough.