Christianity and the Old Testament

I fully agree with Yardmeat. The verses and passages in the Tanakh, supposedly concerning Jesus, are taken out of context. Matthews Nativity story with all its quotes is pure make believe.My own belief is that a child named Jesus was born, and grew up to be a well-loved preacher who criticised the pompous, uncaring religious heirarchy. A few followers, particularly Matthew decided to enhance his stature by making him a prophesied divine Saviour. But for this he would have been forgotten in the decades to follow.

Much or prophesy is simply written after the event. Other prophesies are the result of astute 'prophets' recognising the situation, realising the outcome of events and warning of consequences.
For instance. Judah was vassal to Babylon. Neco, an Egyptian General brought an army against the Babylonians, bypassing Judah, and was soundly beaten by the Babylonians.
Judah decided to form a treaty with Egypt. Isaiah wasn't stupid. He could see that the Babylonians could not allow this. Any threat from these two would have to be met on 2 fronts. He warned about what he could see happening. They ignored him, to their cost. Of course this ascribed to Jahweh.
In the last century we had two 'prophets' in the UK. Churchill could see what was happening in Germany and warned the nation of the danger. He was ignored. Another 'prophet' made a speech in Parliament which brought ridicule upon him. He has turned out right.
A wise man once said 'given time all prophecy comes to pass'.

If you've read Psalm 22, another favourite of prophecies of Jesus and studied the life of David, and the Hebrew method of using 'picture' stories to put things over, it is clear that David is talking about his own experiences. He was exalted as the slayer of Goliath, brought to the depths by the actions of Saul. Pursued, surrounded, hungry and at the risk of being chased out of Israel - a disaster for a Hebrew of the time. He had war within his own family, children killed killed, his beloved son Absalom rebelled and he had to flee Jerusalem. In the end, against his desires, Absalom was killed. His eldest son tried to seize the throne, and he had to have Solomon anointed hurriedly. And his great wish to build a Temple was denied him.
This Psalm has nothing to do with any prophecy, but everything to do with David in despair. The fact that Jesus is supposed to have used the first sentence from the cross is irrelevant. He was simply using a scripture he would have known very well, having been schooled in the Tanakh.

Nothing in the Tanakh refers to Jesus. Isaiah refers to Israel as the 'suffering servant' several times, and Isaiah is all about Israel.

 

That's why Christianity never really took off in Palestine. The early Jewish Christians still followed the Mosaic Laws. It took Paul, a hellenized Jew, to go to the Greeks and spread the message. Greeks were able to accept different beliefs, as long as it didn't refute their own gods.
Jews believed they were responsible for their own sins and rejected a human vicarious sacrifice. .

 

Yes, many Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah because they didn't understand the scriptures pointing to the Messiah as the sacrificial lamb of God. There are many messianic Jews today.

 

I would vehemently disagree with your assessment. There to many very close similarities in those passages. Also, as I stated before, the folks I have been discussing this with seem to tie prophecy into foreshadowing and similitude. I choose my words pretty carefully.

 

There are no Prophecies in the Tanakh about Jesus.

There are many people turning to Islam so Islam must be right?

 

There are many similarities found in stories from different books. That does not mean they are related. I walked up to someone the other day I was sure I knew. It wasn't until I was close and could 'examine' her features I realised it was someone else. When you look at the passages in the light of Judaism and in their context you can see the truth. They do not foretell/prophecy Jesus.

It's now after midnight here. I'm off to bed.

 

Once again you tie fortelling and prophecy together. We are not talking about a random public incident we are talking about a book, given by the God of Heaven through the inspiration of men, that presents the covenants God has forged with man. A book presenting a plan. Sleep well.

 

We disagree.

 

But you still have to show up on Judgment Day where you will be judged on your own merits and might end up getting thrown into the lake of fire. So what did Jesus really do for anyone? Answer: Nothing.

 

According to the Babylonian Talmud Hagigah 27a Jews won't go to hell so why do they need Jesus?

 

Nope. I was judged and my punishment was nailed to the cross. I'm seated in heavenly places with Jesus. I believe my Bible.

 

The Bible says that you will have to go to Judgment Day. Why don't you believe that?

 

Not believers. I will be judged for my works and rewarded based on works, but I'm saved because Jesus was judged in my place. Why did Jesus go to the cross? Here, this will help you.
https://bible.org/seriespage/6-future-judgment-believer

 

Foretelling and Prophesy are the same. Definition of Prophesy - to declare or foretell by, or as if by, divine inspiration.

Unfortunately this book studied against ancient history and culture has many errors, exaggerations and impossibilities. Much of it is simply stories made up by man. Studied carefully this is obvious. The inspiration of man failed badly.

 

They obviously believed they had to exaggerate.. (or downright lie) about everything from Joshua's armies to the wealth and splendor of Solomon to gilding the lily with regard to Jesus.

 

Webster seems to take my side of this

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prophesy

 

Are you saying that you can't get spices and olive oil (Exodus 30:22-25, Exodus 27:20) by wandering around the desert?

Exodus 27:20 (NKJV) = “And you shall command the children of Israel that they bring you pure oil of pressed olives for the light, to cause the lamp to burn continually."

Exodus 30:22-25 (MGS) = "22-25 God spoke to Moses: “Take the best spices: twelve and a half pounds of liquid myrrh; half that much, six and a quarter pounds, of fragrant cinnamon; six and a quarter pounds of fragrant cane; twelve and a half pounds of cassia—using the standard Sanctuary weight for all of them—and a gallon of olive oil. Make these into a holy anointing oil, a perfumer’s skillful blend."

 

That isn't scripture.

 

Is the Book of Mormon or the Koran scripture? Don't they reference hell?

 

Nope. Christians only see the Bible as scripture.

 

I suppose they could have nipped to the local supermarket. Cairo Cost Cutter wasn't far.

 

[mass noun] The sacred writings of Christianity contained in the Bible:
‘passages of scripture’
‘the fundamental teachings of the scriptures’
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.1 The sacred writings of a religion other than Christianity.

 

I don't know what you mean, but Christians only see the Bible as the Word of God.

 

God is a title, not a name. The Bible gives God's names so why not use some of them?

 

I do if I need to use a descriptive term like Jehovah or Elohim, etc. It's a big deal to some people, others not so much.