Christianity and the Old Testament

My favorites are Adonai and Darius.

 

Well Jesus trashed the harsh bits of the Old T, but he often quoted non-harsh bits, so the answer seems to be to regard the Old T as an interesting history book of human encounters with offworld beings, but to turn to HIM to go the extra mile to the pearlies-
"The law brought us to Christ like a schoolmaster, but now through Christ we are not under that schoolmaster" (Gal 3:22-25)
"In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent" (Acts 17:30)

 

The historical Jesus was a Torah-compliant Jew. He observed the Sabbath, was circumcised, kept Kashrut (Kosher), prayed at the Jewish temple, and taught his followers to abide by the Mosaic Law.

It was Paul of Tarsus who came up with a new theology to unite the Jews and Gentiles into a new nation (the Church) and felt it necessary to have the Mosaic law abolished with all its commandments and regulations. But the historical Jesus of Nazareth was a Jewish Prophet and Rabbi who never taught such a theology. If any Christian believes otherwise, they believe in an historical anachronism.

 

Yes but his main beef was with the hypocritical "whited sepulchre" priestly classes who set a bad example; he told the people to regard them as "talking books" and listen to their readings of the scriptures, but not to copy their haughty snooty lifestyle, wouldn't you agree?

 

Of course. He was against the religious establishment. Apocalyptic and Messianic preachers usually are.
Far from wanting to abolish the Law, he told his followers to be more strict in their observance of it than other Jews

 

And it wasn't just Jesus who opposed the Sadducaic elitists who controlled the Sanhedrin and the Temple. The Qumranite community didn't consider the priests in Jerusalem as legitimate either; that's why they went into self exile outside of Jerusalem in the backwater.

 

Where does Paul say that?
As we know, Jesus never abolished the old laws (except the harsher ones), so when Paul said-
"Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ" (1 Cor 11:1) he was indicating that he and Jesus were singing from the same song sheet and that he wasn't out to contradict Jesus.
Another example of Paul's integrity is when he reminded people not to put him or anybody else on a pedestal, but to only follow Jesus-
"One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you?" (1 Cor 1:12/13)
Anyway if Paul had tried to change Jesus's teachings, people would have quickly said "Hey mate, you can't do that!"
So all in all Paul was a decent guy and I can't understand why some people badmouth him..



PS- Ironically the 'Occupy London' protesters pitched their tents outside the great cathedral that bears Paul's name a few years ago; I wonder if it was coincidence or whether they knew he was a tentmaker? (Acts 18:3)..

 

Jesus never abolished any laws. In fact, he introduced some even more stricter interpretations of the Law; such as on divorce. Whereas the Mosaic law allows a man to divorce his wife by simply giving her a bill of divorce, Jesus said it is forbidden to divorce your wife unless she committed adultery.

But Paul wrote: "For he is our peace, who hath made both [Gentile and Jew] one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
(Ephesians 2:14-15)

Paul claims Jesus abolished all of the laws and commandments of Moses in order to break down the barriers between Jews and Gentiles, and unite them into a single people.

Whereas the Mosaic Law was meant to distinguish the Jews from the other nations.

And contrary to Paul, Jesus said: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:17-20)

Jesus taught stringent obedience to the Mosaic Law and to the teachings of the Prophets. That is because Jesus ministry was restricted to Jews only:
"I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew 15:24)

 

Thanks, but can you just clear up a few points-
1- When the mob wanted to stone an adulteress under the old law-
"If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die." (Deuteronomy 22:22), why did Jesus intervene to rescue her?

2- When Jesus said he came to save "the world", and when he told his disciples to preach the gospel to "the world", what exactly did he mean by "the world"?

3- And when Simeon saw the baby Jesus and said- "..a light for revelation to the Gentiles, and the glory of your people Israel.”(Luke 2:32), who were "the Gentiles"?

 

The Pericope Adulterae is a later interpolation which is not found in the earliest manuscripts of the Gospel of John. Even its writing style doesn't match as Bart Ehrman pointed out in Misquoting Jesus.

Likewise, the authenticity of the "Great Commission" is also suspect. The original Gospel of Mark ends at Mark 16:8. A longer version was later interpolated. No historian or secular scholar actually believes Jesus commissioned his disciples to go out into the world and preach the Gospel to Gentiles.

Luke 2:32 isn't Jesus's own words. On the other hand, Jesus explicitly commissioned his disciples not to preach to the gentiles: "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew 10:5-6)

 

Luke also wrote the book of Acts where Paul is sent to the gentiles by Jesus.

 

Paul never met Jesus. In fact he was initially a great opponent of the Jesus movement, having approved of the stoning of Stephen.

And the disciples of Jesus didn't like Paul, especially the controversy over requiring Gentile converts to the movement to undergo circumcision. Study about the Incident of Antioch and Paul's dispute with James. And watch this lecture by Prof. Dale B. Martin from Yale University as well:

[video=youtube;BRWj6j2Dswc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRWj6j2Dswc[/video]

 

Oh yes, Paul met Jesus and talks about it in the book of Acts that Luke wrote.

The Bible has authority over a Yale professor. Yes, Peter and Paul had disagreements, but Peter in one of his letters said Paul's letters were scripture.

 

Allahu are highest God in new testament I wonders.

I am an Christian no matter what I belong to, I can not know in my new seat where my voice through my breathing air that is rough breathing under me.

Jews are well good however how much Nazi kill them in WW2. Nazism where after Jews 70/80 back.

Today it is smaller amount Nazism in Sweden and America's at least.

Christians are gladly Nazi but not all Christians.

I do not believe in Swedish God for my voice. So I have to trust in Jesus Christ that I have realized now that he proves his strength in faith path. Trying to get my faith started.

I trusted in Jesus Christ.

 

More Nazi in Eastern Christian Europe. Even Polish perhaps because they votes on Nazi Party about 25 or 30 percent of polish votes. Over 10 percent of all of Poland with links to Nazism is clearly.

- - - Updated - - -

More than U.K. by percents by whole land.

 

I think the OT was a flawed account, since it was written by the hand of man, not god and Christ came to set the record straight as well as telling the people how to get off of this hellish hamster wheel. It seems the key the way, was something the jews could not accept as they had over thousands of years built up an image of their creator that was terribly wrong. So Christ said the kingdom was within man, not outside him, and there is where it could be found. That when man discovered this kingdom that lived within a part of consciousness he would be changed forever, compared it to a rebirth, a new state of consciousness, and this is what saves man. That when this happened man would be a son of god. Of course this was anathema to the jews, which is evidence their image, their understanding of god was totally wrong. And they killed Christ because he was teaching heresy. But they were the heretics.

Later on, Christ was turned into a jewish blood sacrifice, which is supposed to magically somehow save man, or provide for finding the inner kingdom. Just believe in magic blood, and no need to seek the kingdom at all!! Except Christ said salvation came from finding that kingdom which lives within, in an untouched part of consciousness, and which is in all people, just unrealized.

 

Well. Jesus Christ isn't old Testament. Jesus Christ + Muhammad + Allahu + Geisha highest Gods.

New testament ?!

 

The OT was not written until circa 7th century BCE, and the first part of it - up to King David - is merely stories. The NT is little better. All the prophecies in the OT claimed to foretell Jesus are simply verses/passages taken out of context. Jesus was simply a Jewish preacher/prophet - as the crowd believed on so-called Palm Sunday. The preacher was killed because he condemned their hypocrisy, not because of their idea of their God. (Matthew 23).

 

I want to respond, and also want to be clear that these are only my opinions and not an attack on your spiritual beliefs

Imo the OT and nt have a similar origin
And fwiw, Jesus seems quite clear that the OT laws remain in force
And the nt often refers to OT passages to confirm jesus as a fulfillment of OT prophets
So it seems problematic to dismiss the ot

It is unclear how any god could fail to convey his message for so long
Or why that god would have no option but to send his son for a brutal death

Other religions including Buddhism have a similar message without being Christian
Also
The message of jesus and events described in the nt seem pretty clear that it was about REAL things
Jesus body really rose from the dead.
This real body visited the apostles
This real body was taken up into heaven
Jesus proclaimed that the real bodies of the saved would also be raised
And really taken to heaven
And that jesus really would return to really rule the real world in the near future

You propose some interesting ideas... but I do not think most biblical scholars agree with this as what jesus taught

Jesus was a Jew, who preached a Jewish message to fellow Jews
There is no good evidence that he presented an alternative religion that would target non Jews and which would wind up identifying Jews as enemies

The temple Judaism of the time believed in blood sacrifice
Imo that is a primative belief.
But never the less it is the context of early Christianity

Imo it makes zero sense to propose that some other person can suffer and die to relieve me from my own guilt simply by the expedient of me saying that I believe this to be the case