Curious...why is it "pro-lifers" (generally) have to lie so much?

A plurality, if not many deny they want to ban abortion nation-wide...just that they want to "let it go back to the States", which makes no sense given the hyperbolic statements about "Abortion is murder".


and many deny they also want to see contraception made more difficult to obtain. Yet in any attack on Planned Parenthood they lump in abortion with contraception?

Why do they have to be dishonest?

(BTW, the best proof...will be attempts to divert the subject of this OP. )

 

Its simple really, they know that there is nothing to support their opinion .. nothing legal, nothing medical.

 

It's funny, they love to point at polls that show that "most people are pro-life" (to assure us THEY are in the majority).....but CANNOT point to polls showing that "most people want abortion made totally illegal"...i.e. THEIR position on abortion and legality.

 

Going back to the states makes no sense. I agree. That's a stupid argument and not a truly pro-life one. It's just shifting the problem elsewhere.

And I'm not sure what your point is about Planned Parenthood. Could you be more specific?

Son, you wouldn’t hear our argument if we shouted it through a megaphone, you’ve got your fingers so deep in your ears. You’ve made up your mind that you are unwilling to even listen to anything we have to say. You’ve made that quite clear. All the evidence in the world doesn’t matter to you. You will continue to cling to what you believe no matter what anyone tries to show you.

 

I have found most pro-lifers are really pro-choice, just they would choose not to abort if the choice were theirs, but they also support others to make the choice for themselves

 

point one I am not your son, so your condescending attitude means little to me.

point two .. you do shout it through a megaphone and yet pro-lifers have not managed to change one single thing concerning abortion in over 30 years

point three .. if and when you actually come up with something to support your viewpoint, something that is not lifted straight from a biased report then I'll listen, so far that hasn't happened .. Its easy to get evidence when it already supports your opinion, try looking for some from sources that have no benefit from taking either side.

point four - Son, you wouldn’t hear our argument if we shouted it through a megaphone, you’ve got your fingers so deep in your ears. You’ve made up your mind that you are unwilling to even listen to anything we have to say. You’ve made that quite clear. All the evidence in the world doesn’t matter to you. You will continue to cling to what you believe no matter what anyone tries to show you.

 

So, the FACT that you want to stop a heart beat of a being with 100% human genetic material from beating just because it doesnt look human yet isnt enough for you to say it supports our position? 18 days after the union of genetic material (conception) to make it a living HUMAN, the heart starts beating, but that isnt enough for you to consider it human. You still consider it less than human just because it doesnt look like you or have the same amount of brain power as you (close, but not quite there), and you feel like you have the right to say it can die.

My stance is, until people consider it a living being, abortions wont be stopped or chosen to be done to get rid of the children inside. Even IF the baby in the womb starts to be looked at as a living being, there will still be the immature women who will selfishly chose to KILL the baby than to carry it to term and give it up for adoption or raise it themselves since they are the ones that chose to create the life in first place.

 

A fetus is no more a human being than a tadpole is a frog. The foundation of your argument is false rendering your argument false.

 

Sure, that in attacks on PP, there is not just an attack on PP providing abortions, but also contraception. Throw in guys like RIck Santorum who said contraception is "dangerous". There is a streak of fundamental dishonesty to the "pro-lifers" (not just Catholics, but evangey/fundy Protestants), that also disallows them from stating their REAL view on contraception...i.e. that they wish to see it as limited as abortion.

But such a position (even more so than "Ban abortion nation-wide") is highly unpopular...so they HIDE it.

 

My stance is that abortion has been around for thousands of years , since the first woman had an unwanted pregnancy.

It will always be around as long as humans are human.....or until selfish, immature men stop having sex...

 

But you'd do nothing to make it illegal?

 

Again, how do you say it is not a haman again? Cause of the stage of life that it is in? When in all actuallity, it has everything in its body to make it human. Just keep dehumanizing something because of its age, maybe one day when the fetuses gets a liberal representation from a lawyer to say its gets oppressed and killed just because of its age and mental capacity, then you libs will come around to 'fighting for its rights'.

 

Considering that for the time being, it is so ingrained into most of the american physcy that babies in the womb are not "living humans", making it illegal would be as futile as making pot illegal. People are going to do what they believe to be "right", but making laws for the entire 300million americans at the federal level is stupid when the laws for this kind of stuff should be made at the lowest possible level.

If NYC wants to ban all guns, fine, let them become the safe haven for criminals who dont care about the law and will have easy picking of victims. If they also want to fund the abortions of their minorities through taxation of their working classes, fine, but me in FL dont want to pay for that.

- - - Updated - - -

Women have the RIGHT to say no to those men.

 

You confuse the argument. One is an argument whether Roe v Wade is legitimately constitutional and even some of the most liberal lawyers have written that it was passed on very sketchy grounds.

The other is whether abortion is taking a life.

Then you call it lying. Two separate arguments that you have decided to turn into a logical fallacy..

 

So you admit it's only women you want to control and punish.....thanks for being honest finally!!!

 

Actually you are wrong .. I've never disputed that from conception you have a human life, I'd suggest you actually take some time to read more of my comments to see what my position is .. that way you won't be lured into making false accusations laced with hyperbole.

 

Actually NEITHER was my argument. My first argument was that most "pro-lifers" want to ban abortion (nationally...not just "send it back to the States") but they can't admit that because it's wildly unpopular.

My second argument was about their opposition as well to contraception....and how they deny that.

So I didn't "turn it into a logical fallacy"...YOU turned my argument into what YOU wanted to talk about and claimed that I did it and was fallaciious in my logic. Which is called dishonesty.....which WAS my over-riding premise.

 

Sorry, but you are all over the place lumping different arguments into a misshaped mess then just label the mess "lying". You have yet to make any cogent argument for anything.

Let's just stick to your first premise.

. Now do you have some stats on that or is that just your opinion? For instance, if they deny they want to ban abortion nationwide, then there would be no argument. Your second premise makes no sense. If Roe v Wade were overturned, most states would pass the same thing. When Roe v Wade passed, that is the direction states were going toward anyway.

 

Control and punish? How so? Women have the right to say no to sex, and getting pregnant is a two person equasion, but only the woman has the right to abort the baby no matter what the father says. The woman seems to have the only amount of "control" in this arguement.

But since you consider having a baby as "punishment", I am sorry for your parents who obviously had such horrible child who made their lives a living hell. For me, having my kids are blessings, not punishment. And yes, I am a single father raising two babies on my own with a full time job, and no I didnt want to be a single father either, that was not my choice.

 

I just dont want my tax dollars going to pay for abortions OR contraceptions from the federal level. It is not in their mandate (the constitution) to provide funds to organizations like PP. If my local area wants to take my land property taxes and provide to local PP and it is in the town charter to do so, then so be it.

 

But you would be more than happy to have your tax dollar taken to fund the increase in unwanted children going into care or the increase in law enforcement to ensure all pregnant woman didn't to take something to trigger a miscarriage or to fund investigations into all miscarriages to see if they were natural or not or to increase the amount of court time in order to try all the "suspect" cases of miscarriage or to increase the number of prison places to inter those woman who have been found guilty of causing a miscarriage or the increase in welfare to homes with pregnant woman who would have aborted if it had not been illegal.

If you say no to any of the above, how are you going to enforce illegal abortion?

 

By saying women have a right to say no translates to women must be punished for not saying no.
Despite your deperate attempt to insult me and my parents it was obvious you don't want to see the point. The point is that for some women having a baby IS punishment. They have n't the resources to care for the baby.
Anti-choicers keep insisting that women have the baby as payment for having enjoyed the sex, they say so over and over again, so THEY believe it's punishment, too!!!


And YES, you had a choice. You could've just said no to sex.

 

We had a "pro-lifer" clearly state that pregnancy was a "consequence" for having sex....not in the sense of "cause and effect"....but something PUNITIVE imposed due to an action that was the woman's "fault."

 

If tax dollars can go to "crisis pregnancy centers" for the purpose of religion-based coercion of vulnerable teens and women with unwanted pregnancies, then certainly they can go to Planned Parenthood for the purpose of sex education, contraception, cancer screening, prenatal care, etc.

 

These people are not pro-life either. It doesn't matter what they call themselves. You can't be pro-life if you are okay with other people killing somebody. And I won't hesitate to call people out on that.

I am pro-contraception, so I guess I can't speak for those people. I support heavy emphasis on responsible prevention.