Four Illegals Held in MA Gang Rape Case

Within the United States, we have a certain freedom of movement, that is, that police or other governmental agencies cannot dictate where we go, who we see, what we do (to some extent), without probable cause. Coming into this country, through legal means, are not coming and going as they please. They are being vetted, but somehow, you are too ignorant to know that. Those that come in while avoiding the designated points of entry are doing so but it is because of events that affect this country. At the same time, we, as a country, cannot dictate what countries do and cannot do. We can encourage, bargain, discuss, come to a mutual understanding, etc, but we can never dictate. But none of this deals with the fact that four men were charged but they have not been identified, to my knowledge, as illegal. They are simply being called illegal based on the type of crime they committed and that shows the lack of education of some posters.

 

Like I said, if you want to try this at your own risk, be my guest. All the proof I need.

 

Eh yeah, go explain your vetting to the families and victims in San Bernardino and to the families of the victim in the case. Im sure they will just love your explanation and just let them know they were a necessary sacrifice to pursue your dream of getting as many muslims and foreigners over her as soon as possible because you believe their addition is what is needed most for this country. And let them know there will be more sacrifices made, but theirs is greatly appreciated.

Screw your vetting process, it dont work.

 

A lot of the sex trade is committed either by legal immigrants or US citizens in those massage parlors where the windows are closed and the doors are locked. You never notice because you never look to begin with.

However, if there are illegal aliens who are caught in the sex trade, they may be able to stay here legally under the U visa and filing the I-360. And that kinda ruins your day, doesn't it?

 

Ah again with the " it's done here so why can't illegals come do it here" BS argument.

So since we have murderers in this country we are just supposed to accept murderers from other countries?

 

don't need to. the families are relying on law enforcement to do their job. The last thing they need is a vendetta mentality by people who are using this tragedy for their own personal, political agenda. And so far, none have taken the approach you have, thankfully. Says a lot about your kind.

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That wasn't the point. Try again.

 

No you don't want to because you know they wont give a (*)(*)(*)(*) about YOUR AGENDA to get as many muslims and foreigners over here to turn this country into a 3rd world (*)(*)(*)(*) hole. Yes, the last thing they need is your BS, I agree.

And how do you know what approaches those people have taken?


v

Oh no it was the point, it's the same argument liberals always use when it comes to illegals or the refugees. So tell me again how we should allow illegals and refugees in freely and only act after they made someone a victim. I mean after all, since we have child molesters and rapists here it shouldn't be that big of a deal if one of them does it, just let them all in with a half assed vetting process and we will worry about it after someone is dead.

 

Exactly, they're not illegal immigrants, they're "refugees"......

I just can't believe idiots accept these lies from Obama and pals

 

That was not the argument I was making. The argument originally was that if all illegals were not in this country, then the rape would have never occurred. I countered the argument simply stating that cannot be the case because you cannot rule out every instance where rape may occur. May occur is the operative phrase here. Posters are ignoring this part and are simply out for blood, at any cost to any person that does not fit their specific, limited criteria. Pretty much acting like animals in the same capacity is ISIS.

The couple never knew they were illegal at the time of the crime occurred. The police, originally, did not know. Immigration, ICE/CBP placed the immigration hold based on the crime and their lack of status. AT that time, their immigration status was known. However, the law is taking its course. Let the courts decide and the process be legal. Not a lynching by a vengeful mob who care more about their own brand of politics than anything else.

 

These people do not want any agenda. They certainly do not want to see your agenda take shape. As for me, I have no agenda. This is a debate forum, not a political party.

That being said, this country is not a third world hellhole. It never has been. It will be a third world if we follow your agenda where most freedoms will be taken away all in the name of safety and racial purity. Again, do you even care who the victims were and where they came from? One was from Iran. Another was from Asia, Vietnam. Two groups of people you do not want in this country to begin with because one came from a Muslim country and another from a third world Asian country. See how your bigotry blinds you with your so called "agenda."

You still have not learned the point here and never will.

The point was not that it was legal or illegal. The point was that if you follow the law, you must include those ways in which a person can go from being illegal to legal. The fact that you do not know jack (*)(*)(*)(*) shows abundantly here. You are welcome to your opinion no matter how uneducated it may be.

 

Immigration laws. What do transgressions by anyone's relatives have to do with their own legality? If someone breaks the law, then they broke the law.

No, you are incorrect. My argument is that illegal immigrants are here illegally because they have broken immigration laws. Check out section 273 and 274. Technically, not enforcing these laws also breaks other laws, but right now, let's just focus on enforcing the immigration laws on the books.

I don't think immigration law has verbiage such as "should", but I could be wrong. If someone breaks the law, they should face the consequences, period. If the law is unjust, then by all means, lobby your representatives to change the laws if they can get the votes. Until then, it is mandatory to enforce every law consistently.

 

On the Pacific side, it was Angels Island, the second most popular island in the San Francisco Bay. But then there was this 1872 Act that barred Chinese from Entering the Country legally because a group of white men could not understand the language, much less the customs, and even less about the reason why they came here to begin with. And it was at that time where CBP was created, all but a few dozen officers. We now have more than 30000.

 

that's the argument Trump, NumbersUSA, FAIRUS, CIS, White Nationalists/Supremecists, Nativists, and their followers are saying. When someone makes the argument that all illegals, most illegals, many illegals are rapists, then they are bringing in everyone one in the group based on a singular crime. In addition, if they argue that if the illegal was never here, then the rape would never occur. And in that instance, that is factually incorrect as well.

No I am correct. You are making the supposition that once an alien is illegal, that they have committed a crime. That is not necessarily true. An alien who is illegal but files the form I539, an illegal (overstay) who marries a US citizen, an illegal who applies, and is granted asylee, TPS, or refugee status, was illegal but under facts and circumstances, become legal again. Thus if following the law is a must, then allowing them to become legal again is also a must. Is it not?

No, it uses the word "may" which can imply must, maybe, should, etc.

The issue we have in our legal system is that our legal system, all the laws, are voluntarily enforced. There is no way on this green earth or in this lifetime or reality, that any government can enforce all the laws on the books. It can't. To do so would mean to place cops at every corner, every computer, every recording device possible. Imagine that the moment you went above the speed limit you were fined. Imagine the moment you forget to place income on your tax return you are penalized, fined, and subjugated to intense review. Imagine the moment you even thought about committing assault, burglary, rape, etc the police were there to arrest you. This sounds great in movies and can make great films, but it is not set in reality.

Laws being enforced are based on priority and that our laws are based on the ordinary citizen to obey the law voluntarily. Even if one violates a law, even a civil ordinance, our procedures are based on probable cause. And that is why the law is on my side.

 

How do you know those peoples agenda, or lack of one? Why are you claiming you know what they think?

And no this will not turn into a 3rd world hell hole if we go by my beliefs, which is following the law and keeping illegals out and stop pandering to them . Your way will destroy our country because you want to simply allow these 3rd world neanderthals just come in and somehow magically make them citizens. Wanting our government to truly enforce the laws we already have made us the country we are today, and if we went your way we would go from Free Country to Mexico or Iran in a matter of years. You are a fool.

It has nothing to do with race or religion, ITS ABOUT ILLEGALS WHO SHOULD NOT BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE AND THEY NEED TO NOT COME HERE ILLEGALLY.

I dont care who comes here, just as long as they come through the legal way. Which is something you are against and just wish to flood our country with people.

The point is if you follow the law you wont come illegally, and if you do you don't get to stay here. The fact is your agenda is a danger to this country, demanding we provide a way for those who illegally enter the country to become citizens. Like I said, screw your path to failure.

 

Trump isn't making that argument. You are attributing it to him because it allows deflection from the fact that immigration laws are not being enforced which substantiates a legitimate gripe against progressives. Also, the rape being discussed in the OP would never have happened if those illegals were there. Were not talking about infinitesimally small probabilities that the female victim would be raped and her boyfriend forced to watch it. No, we are talking about this instance. If the illegal immigration laws were properly enforced, the rape being discussed would not have happened.

No, it is not a must considering that specific circumstances must be met in order to be given special status. As soon as they break the law, they are illegal. You are contorting way to hard for something this simple.



No, it uses the word "may" which can imply must, maybe, should, etc.

Well, currently over 60% of the country think that immigration laws are a priority. I understand that in your world you want a gray area so that you can just flex legalities depending upon agenda, but this is fairly black and white. If you are in this country without all prerequisite requirements being satisfied, then you are here illegally.

It is sort of a joke the way you want to ride between the lines on this. I am actually a proponent for open borders, but with the current welfare state and entitlement mentality, I am forced to oppose the obvious recruitment of societal leaches for the purpose of vote stacking.

 

Actually, Trump did. He did it when he first stated he was running for president while doubling down and tripling down later on when asked. In addition, the immigration restrictionist websites that I mentioned, NumbersUSA, FAIRUS, and CIS, have all implied and stated this. There was even a book in 2005 that made this claim. The reason is that by trying to portray EVERY illegal as dangerous, their goal is to restrict immigration, including legal immigration, to an absolute zero. The constant fear mongering is not new to America. It began with the Irish, then to Germans, Swedes, Eastern Europeans, Germans, French, to Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, now Mexican, Muslim, and the list goes on. The argument has been the same, only the name of the group has changed.

As for rape, if you look at the statistics, 80% of all rape victims knew their attacker according to this site. This statistic alone discounts any notion that the rape would have never occurred. If you believe the statistics, one out of five women report that they have been raped. And this statistic also proves their claim as wrong. I am not stating that she will be raped, but we cannot discount the fact that rape is very prevalent in our society, with or without illegal aliens. It is the same argument my state made about uninsured motorists claiming that most were illegal aliens. A law was passed and the rate barely dropped. And my state has one of the highest numbers of illegals in the country and this state is very conservative. So blaming liberals, illegals, or progressives is not going to work with me in this debate. The blame is not as simplistic as you might think. It is not the woman or her boyfriend, it is only to the four men who committed the crime and no one else. Trying to include others in the same category is like trying to include relatives when you commit a crime. That is the analogy I am making in my argument.

If you want to have the ALL th laws obeyed, you cannot pick and choose which laws to be enforced. Otherwise you are wanting it both ways and using double speak at the same time. That is why I use those examples where an illegal can become legal by following the law, usually making a choice or filing a piece of paper.

Don't get me wrong, I do think immigration law is a priority. A lot of the discrepancies and issues on the legal side affects the illegal side of immigration, notwithstanding drug running, gun running, and other nefarious crimes. This is why, when it comes to illegals, I separate the wheat from the chaff. On the legal side, there needs to be some changes to allow employers and the government to verify for jobs that skills are required. Certain countries have an advantage with certain skills that we need and desire. Education, in a broad sense with public, private, home school, secondary and post secondary, have stopped teach desired job skills and only teach knowledge. Education has become a business, for the most part, from textbooks to how classes are taught and to whom. But employers are no longer in the education field and do not want to waste money on training. They want the employees to be ready from the get go. At the same time, Americans should not have the expectation of obtaining a job simply because they are American. There is no entitlement when it comes to getting a job. And we need to increase job training programs to teach those desired skills. But Tea Partiers and Conservatives think that this can grow on trees or magically appear if you just get rid of those "pesty immigrants" who have the job skills that the employers need and want. This is capitalism in its truest and purest form and yet conservatives want to go full socialist. Imagine that.

On the illegal side, I understand why they come here illegally and want them to come legally. If all they do is cross the border at not the designated point of entry, then all they have done is violate a civil law under Title 8. They are here to work, feed their family, make a living. They have no delusions of grandeur, like some who post here. But I call them the wheat of the earth. They may be poor, but they work hard for what they do. There are some, however, that do not work and try to game the system. And we need to let the system deal with them individually.

I have seen and witnessed the good, the bad, and the ugly when it comes to immigration, both from a personal and professional standpoint. I have been dealing with immigration for over three decades now.

 

If the victims had an agenda, any agenda, don't you think some website would be reporting it by now?

You also need to understand the law. So far, you have demonstrated you have no knowledge of the law in any shape or form. Yes, they should come illegally. But should've, could've, or would've is not how the law works. It never does. It is what is happening now, not yesterday, not last election cycle, nor next week, but now.

Like I said, I have no agenda here. But your understanding of the law is so pathetic, it is not worth discussing anymore.

 

President Trump, ASAP

 

Wait, so if someone has an agenda somehow magically some journalist knows all about it and reports its right away? So we can pick any person we want and ask them their name and we will know their agenda just by searching their name because everyone's agenda is magically on some website? Interesting analogy of yours.

I don't think we would honestly know much about the agendas, or lack there of , of those families who fell victim to the SB psycho Muslims, because the politicians and the media were too busy making it seem like Muslims were the victims and ignored the people who were killed or injured.

But anyways besides your crazy theory that everyone's agenda is magically reported, or one does not exist unless you of all people have heard it, it seems as if you are agenda driven as you only want to follow laws that benefit your standing as well as create laws that benefit your political views.

No we should not create laws that pander to illegals, and just because they came here illegally that does not mean we give them the means to become citizens. On the contrary, we make laws that make everything totally inaccessible to illegals and their children from schools, to jobs and even the ability to buy property.

Your way of wanting to reward illegals by making them citizens is a true danger to this country and you are only empowering foreigners to keep jumping out fences and flood the country. Which is your main goal it would seem.

Sorry but for the better of this country we need to enforce the laws we already have on the books as well as create new laws that further discourage illegals from coming here.

Yes please stop arguing your crazy ass statement about rewarding criminals, that has got to be one of the craziest statements anybody has made on here.

 

Yah the guy who hires illegals will stop illegal immigration! Plus he said they just have to leave then they come back.

 

He's not going to let them back.

Can't let Hispanic voters know that, though.

 

The original point was that the rape of the woman, and the beating that her husband, would not have happened if these four men had not been where they didn't belong. No one has said that the woman would never get raped in her lifetime, or that her husband would never have been beaten at anytime in his lifetime. Only that that particular rape and beating would not have occurred. The four men that did the raping are the only animals in this story, and I have no problem with them being treated like the animals they are.

Have you thought about why these men are in this country, or more importantly why they chose to behave in the manner they did? It is that, compared to where they come from, this country is much more civilized. So, they don't fear the type of retribution that they would face back home. In most non-civilized countries this type of crime is not usually punished by the police. Usually the woman's family will catch them long before the police even try. The men would be stripped down, and they would be castrated. The parts that were removed would be shoved into their mouths, and their mouths sewn shut. They would then be staked out, and left as a warning to others. I say, treat these four men like they would have been treated back home.

The fact is, we already have our share of home grown animals. We need to stop letting more of these animals sneak across our borders.

 

Doesn't really come close to the world wide gang rape case in the Catholic church.

 

You spout that crap with nothing to back it up. All it does is prove your ignorant biases.

 

Wut? If you think that the Catholic church for pedophiles is a smaller sex ring than this.....
lol