Gun Laws sure do work! 67 people shot in NYC over weekend.

See post above.

I never lumped everyone together and yes it isnt a bad idea to put harsher crime on people trafficing guns. Start by better controlling shops who sell guns and banning anyone who sells trough third partys to criminals.

Just look at the terms you use "attacking" and again its trough those law abiding citizens the mayority of criminals get guns.

No its not, less guns in the hands of criminals is a bad idea for you?

More lies.

Does it matter they had it legaly? Its clear plenty of studys show it more gun ownership always leads to more gun related accidents and deaths.

The same as they show the easier it is to legaly get a gun the easier it is to illegaly get a gun.

And again I never said that.

On criminals in europe? LOL

 

When did they climb?

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/violent_crime/murder.html

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc.../crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl07.xls

2004 to 2010 it dropped by 1%

More lies, yet thats another discussion. Look at the thread title.

Petty insults cant hide the fact you dont have arguments.

Sure, like inveting statistics to fit your argument is a republican pastime? LOL

 

Yes but for those gang bangers and drug dealers, guns are a tool of the trade. The rest of 18 year old children are not in the business of gun violence. Your way is like trying to determine auto accidental deaths by studying the Amish..

 

No, the links I provided go to official US sites and revealed 80 children 14 and under and 110 'children' 18 and under.

 

Does that mean 8% sold to the fellow who used the gun in a crime or that 8% in high crime areas simply legally sold the guns to legal buyers?

 

It doesnt matter and no, this is the whole USA. You want to ignore car accidents because people drive drunk.

Thats close to 200, a sidenote for you?

No 8% of the gun selling stores are the main problem, they sell most of the guns to criminals trough third partys.

Doesnt really matter gun theft and legal sold weapons that end up in the ahnds of criminals is the main way that criminals get guns.

 

from you own source:

"Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through STRAW PURCAHSE SALES. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf. According to a 1994 ATF study on "Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California," many straw purchases are conducted in an openly "suggestive" manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun. Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases.BOTH OF THESE ARE ILLEGAL ACTIVITES. "

so once again, criminals are obtaining guns illegally, not in a legal manner at all. you are too easy.

ok i agree with you there as far as harsher crimes against those getting guns illegally. but you lose me when you act like its the gun shops fault. they are tricked into selling the gun to one person and the person turns around and gives it to someone else ILLEGALLY. the only person at fault is the person buying the gun who does that and they should be punished harshly for their action. unless the gun shop owner is psychic he doesnt know what the person buying the gun is up to, he or she only follows the guidelines given to them stating who they can and cant sell a gun to.

now if the licensed gun shop owner knowingly sells guns to people they are not supposed to sell too then yes i agree they should be harshly punished,fined and shut down from ever selling guns again and serve a jail sentence.

but there is a difference between licensed gun shops who are ILLEGALLY,which mean not abiding by the law, sellling guns and the licensed gun shop who does not knowingly see he/she is being scammed in a straw purchase sale.

im all down for punishing people illegally selling guns, but dont call them law abiding because their illegal activities kinda take that away.

according to your souce its not law abiding citizens, its people breaking the law that give the guns to someone else. if they were law abiding citizens they wouldnt try to pull that kind of scheme. you need a dictionary?

that would be greatm but you are going after the wrong people. once again its not law abiding citizens giving them the guns. you need to read your source again.

i tell it like i see it, and its obvious your way of handling things will only make it harder for a law abiding citizen to carry or buy a gun. you need to rethink your strategy.

yes it does matter if they have the gun legally. you are lumping to different people together, those who arent supposed to have guns and those who are allowed to have them. like i said, you dont want to look up the facts because it would hurt your agenda, just like you keep on owning yourself with your own sources.

its what your plan is gonna do.

no criminals here in the States.

 

ahhh i see, totally ignoring the source i gave you, well here it is again:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/28/ny...ives.html?_r=1

so since you say knife attacks/deaths drop by 1% then accoring to my article its still up 49%. you lose.

nope obviously not lies, since you do everything you can to duck and dodge the issue. and it goes right along with this, considering you trying to bring down guns and kife attacks and deaths are now on the rise. its a reaction to liberal policies and it makes perfect sense.

i didnt know liberal took truth as insults. oh wait i can see why, i understand that anything that a liberal doesnt like or doesnt agree with is an insult. no sir, you have barelly a leg to stand on in this debate.

im not inventing anything and im no republican by any means, im just protecting my right to defend myself against people like you. i dont need to invent any stat to prove you wrong, quite honestly its bad enough your own sources work against you so it makes it much easier.

thanks.

 

kinda off topic, but have you actually been into a fight where a knife was used against you? you make it sound so easy to defend against when in real life its pretty (*)(*)(*)(*)ed hard unless you have proper training and experience.

just saying.

 

Thats nOT the point, they get these guns from LEGAL sources.

Gun shop owners sell these guns legaly, they get stolen from people who bought them legaly. ALL this wouldnt be possible without the legal over the counter sale of guns.

Thats only part of it, plenty of them sell it even tough they know it isnt for the person buying it. SO the fault also is there as this is mostly illegal. But thats another discussion.

Guns get stolen or lost, shop owners sell them without knowing arent these law abiding citizens in that dictionary of yours?

These are a large part of the sourcde of weapons off criminals.

It will be harder and so will it be harder for criminals. A person can go trough the paperwork or time needed, criminals will not.

SO how then can you compare with criminals in europe?

 

You can defend against a knife, how are you going to defend yourself from a guy 20 yards away with a gun?

 

"Page Not Found"

And those numbers i gave are the official statistics for the USA.

DOWN 1% .

LOL you have no clue what you posted just 1 post ago do you? Perhaps reread it?

No wonder you cant even get simple statistics right, medication wearing off?

My own sources work against me? NOpe they show knifes deaths going down, your link that wont open from a newspapers doesnt really change that LOL

 

Tell that to my father who was stabbed in the back of the neck and millimeters away from death in the South Bronx. He said he was standing one second, looking up at the L, and it was lights out the next second.

 

The entire USA but reduced to the universe of folk with enough access to a gun to be killed and further reduced to the a smaller universe of gang bangers and drug dealers. Put another way, an additional attribute of the folk killed is membership in a gang or drug cartel. The 110 for 'children' 18 and under is the total. It is not the number of actual children killed PLUS 110 but instead 18 to birth.

That means they make a legal sale and the person buying commits a crime and sells it on to criminals.

 

And a bullet would probably have killed him, be thankfull that criminal hadnt just robbed a gun .

 

Thats what you make of it, feel free to give some source on how much they make up accidents.

And this is only possible trough legal sale of firearms.

 

we arent talking about the USA, we are talking about the kiife crimes in NYC where you liberals banned guns. and it was up 50% in that city.

here is another source

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/28/nyregion/28knives.html

no thats just liberal tactics of trying to find stats that serve their purpose, eventhough it has nothing to do with the topic.

here is the link again, stay on topic as this is about NYC, the city we are talking about that doesnt allow people to openly carry and in turn caused knife fatalities to rise 50%.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/28/nyregion/28knives.html

and by the way, i noticed you chickend out trying to make my source invalid by removing a few letters from it. now thats some new low tactics, you liberals have gotten straight up aweful.

read the link and weep.

yes they work against you because your knife link talks about the country, which most of the states around the country allow carry laws. we are talking about a liberal Utopia that is NYC where guns arent allowed for law abiding citizens, which also caused knife fatalities to rise in that city.

here you go again...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/28/nyregion/28knives.html


and also your own links about how criminals get guns work against you just as well. claiming its law abiding citizens fault that criminals get guns when its criminals getting them from criminals.

you lose, get over it.

 

yeah because everyone is a top shot. obviously you know nothing about either situation as it easily shows your ignorance lol.

have you erven been into a real fight? i seriously doubt it.

 

lol you are clueless, both weapons are equally dangerous. just depends on where the bullet or knife get you. either one can easily kill a person.

 

but you are lumping 2 different situations together.

in one situation the gun dealer makes a legal sale, but is unaware of the buyers action to later give it to another person. in this situation the buyer is a criminal, its not the gun sellers fault.

in another situation a gun dealer illegally sells a gun to someone who is not supposed to have it, making it an illegal transaction so the buyer and the dealer are wrong.

in one you can blame the dealer and the other the dealer did nothing wrong. but thats ok, keep on avoiding facts and understanding the law and who breaks them.

 

um yeah thats actually a BIG POINT. that person is breaking the law and taking advantage of his/her priveledge of their license, which in turn makes them a criminal by knowingly selling guns to someone that is not supposed to have one.

meanwhile the other seller who is making a legal transaction can not be made accountable for the buyer illegally giving or selling that same weapon to another person who is not supposed to have it.

stop omitting facts and come back to reality, you cant punish everyone because of other peoples bad actions.

nope its the same discussion, you just want to omit stuff that makes your stance ridiculous. you cant cope with facts. criminals get guns from criminals, NOT LAW ABIDING CITIZENS.

no because law abiding citizens and sellers make sure and know where the gun came from before selling the weapon to someone else. but there ya go again, trying to compare law abiding citizens to those who dont give a (*)(*)(*)(*).

criminals dont care about paperwork. there are more than enough guns already on the streets for criminals to get their hands on. and law abiding citizens already go through paper work, we have to wait atleast 3-7 days just for a background check, then to get licensed we have to pay for it as well as take 8 hour long classes on them. but you wouldnt know that now would you? na, didnt think so.

what should be done is very harsh penalties and automatic jail time for those illegally possessing guns and those who illegally sell them.

its easy, they are europeans, a very weak bunch of people. no spines what so ever lol.

 

So?

Perhaps read your source

"So far in 2009, about a quarter of killings in the city have been committed with knives or other cutting instruments, about the same percentage as in 2008. But the overall homicide rate is down: 97 through April 16, the Police Department said, compared with 135 in the same period in 2008."

So homocide is down, and you complain for what? Not enough killings?

Also "Some other large cities saw no such increase last year, and police officials and experts are at a loss to explain what is either a new trend or a spike."

Wich means other had simular spikes WITHOUT those laws.

No thats reality, even your own source doesnt agree with you.

BS this is just as much about the USA. As its stille asy to buy guns and without any problem take them to nyc.

And now some pathetic lies, the link didnt work, period. LOL How sad are you.

 

And everyone with a kinfe knows human anatomy. LOL

The only clueless is you. If you think knifing up close someone is as easy as pointing a gun yards away and pulling a trigger.

But yes pretend knifes are just as dangerous as firearms, thats why the USA soldier all still carry swords.

I have never stabbed or shot a civilian no, neither have you. Lets not pretend you did.

 

Sure thats why firearm killing are 5 times as high as "Knives or cutting instruments" thats why every crimiçnal or ganster has several knives. Thats why people have knives at home for "self defense" .

Thats why in felonys that lead to murder firearms are used 10 times as often.

Oh no wait it isnt because its BS.

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/violent_crime/murder.html

 

No person A wants a firearm foir crime, person B buys it legally and then sells it to person A illegal and says it got stolen.

This is ony possible because person B can easily and legally buy a weapon.

In a lot of cases the gun dealer knows but he also knows its almost impossible to trace that back to him so he doesnt care.

But this is ebsides the point, its only because its easy to buy legal weapons that this is possible.