Has a political forum debate ever changed your position on an issue?

What do you suppose age has to do with it?

 

The minimum wage will eventually become the maximum wage. Soon, you will be lucky to have a job, and if you do, it will be at the minimum/maximum wage. How much should the minimum wage be and would you ever vote for not raising it? In America now, you can vote yourself a raise.

- - - Updated - - -

An age-ist. Old lives matter!

 

I will say, I've become more liberal on social issues due to participating in forums. Not just PF.
I've also become less religious because of participating religious forums.
I think one needs to get outside their little circles they have in life, it's pretty limited views and the forums do such things.

All one has to do is sort through the partisan BS, tough to do many times, but if successful, one can get some nice perspective on things that one may have not had before.

 

I changed most of my positions after the age of 40. But I've always tried to keep an open mind. But perhaps less open in my younger years.
What I was taught growing up, had to be the worldview. How wrong that was.

 

i liked Ron Paul, sort of a straight shooter, but he was seen as a crackpot. Not my opinion.
That was mostly from small gov't hard core personal responsibility R's. I call them fake R's.

 

A problem with just reading, for some, is they only read what fits their already personal biased views.
Some never see the other side(s) of an issue.
I say sides, because there are almost always more than 2 sides to an issue.
I've seen on forums, many RWers can only see 2 sides to an issue. A for or against type attitude. That may be due to many having a religious background, not sure. Good/evil.

 

Min wage has been around since the 40's? or so. It has never killed any economic growth, ever.
Most of the time, the min wage just catches up to what the majority wages are in the area. There's usually only a few companies(industries) that haven't paid what most others in the area are paying.

And yes, it would be nice if the jobs could pay a sustainable living and not welfare.

 

I have in the past on things regarding homosexuality and somewhat on abortion. Their's also been a few occasions where information was shown on something(those somethings escape me right now)and allowed me to see something that I was unaware of.

Part of debate though isn't necessarily about changing someone's mind, but also about seeing their point of view. It's educational and a great experience.

 

I don't think so. The law of the market and supply and demand will always result in differing wages for differing skill sets. If you need electricity, you will part with more of your money to the electrician than you would to the man who pumps your gas at the gas station. The electrician can simply refuse to work for the same wages as the gas station attendant, and the demand for his service will result in him working for that higher wage, inevitably.

The minimum wage varies from state to state, and I don't know what it should be. But let's look at what it costs for one person to live independently and modestly ...

Rent for a studio apartment,
Unprepared food, (no crap, no eating out)
Miscellaneous necessary grocery items (toilet paper, cleaning supplies, etc)
Necessary clothing, (necessities only)
A used car, fuel, maintenance, and auto insurance (Let's face it. Most people need a car to get to work)
Utilities and phone,
Medical insurance premiums, deductibles and co-pays

And I haven't even mentioned the possibility of a dependent spouse or child. If the parent is single, or if the spouse also works, a dependent child is going to require day care.

So my question is ... If this person has a full time job, then society must have a need for that job to be done. If we have a need for that job to be done full time, shouldn't the worker who does that job be able to modestly sustain himself without further assistance? If their wage is not high enough to support that list above, then the person must work full time and take from others to sustain himself. That taking is not stealing - it is financial support from others - in most cases, the taxpayer. Is this the best solution? Or should full time work be worth minimal independent sustenance that doesn't require taking from the labor of others?

These are the questions that discussion has made me think about.

 

Offhand I can say I've become more liberal in respect to Muslims, particularly to Saudis because we have people here who were actually there, and more restrictive in regard to gun rights, so the only change I've ever noticed is becoming more liberal, not conservative at all.

I was liberal when younger and became converted to libertarianism on reading Ayn Rand, but then changed back once there was no more draft and I realized that being against the draft was the only thing I really had in common with it.

 

I can't imagine that. That plus having to go home to talk on the phone. Or only being able to watch news a half hour a day. Plus all that uphill walking in ten feet of snow. Lucky for me there's global warming to make the walk easier.

On the plus side the way you guys lived (judging from the Happy Days and Brady Bunch shows) seemed really wholesome.

- - - Updated - - -

Which argument convinced you to turn the American flag upside down?

- - - Updated - - -

So your new and improved intellect has grown resistant to change?

 

Yes. Off the top of my head, two folks whose posts have caused me to rethink opinions I held have been Iriemon and Teamosil.



​

 

I changed my mind about abortion. I used to think it was bad for everyone however, after being in many Forum arguments, conversations etc. I have come to realize that pro-abortionists are monolithic and intolerant so, let them abort their future children...No sweat off my brow.

 

That's often how change occurs with me, through the research I do before I enter a forum argument. Research I do because I don't want to seem like an idiot and because it's not easy keeping up with people over twice my age who have more life experience.

To me my words mean nothing without my name and face behind them. Words without a name are like cowboys without a reputation. Ignored and forgotten.
That's why I use my real first name and why I will upload a picture of myself when this site's picture issue is fixed. In the meantime I uploaded pictures in the mug thread in the casual chat section. I want people to know who's talking, even when I'm wrong and I look foolish.
Also having my face attached to my posts keeps me from letting my annoyance with some people get the best of me. I'm not going to criticize someone in a personal manner when they see my picture and name. It's just too personal and mean.

 

Are you implying people's opinions don't become more hardened over time?

 

Agreed.
When I first started on political groups it took me a while to see what was just standard partisan talking points and what was independent thought.
I also learned that my dad might not be 100% right on everything

 

I still haven't formed an opinion on him...
... ummm. And I forgot what else I was going to say.

 

I attended a "liberal(ish)" Catholic school. We were taught that good and evil wasn't all black and white. They both came in many shades. Thus I learned that political and social issues aren't all black and white either.

 

Yea once you try it it's hard to go back.
.
.
.
Kidding kidding!! Don't send me hate mail
I couldn't resist.

Very true! Although some people's point of view is really far out there. Like those conspiracy theory people. Eeeep. How can logic not exist in their universe?

 

That's what has a big impact on me. Debating world issues with people who are actually living in the places I'm seeing discussed on the news. I don't have to imagine how they feel about an issue occurring in their country. I can just ask them directly.
It really puts my own views and opinions of other countries to the test.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know to say to your post but I can reply to your signature. I wouldn't have given the moocher the first $50!

 

You sound like you know from personal experience. That came out more immature then I intended....

Not a conspiracy person myself but I know enough about them to know they are normally built on some form of logic. Just enough to get you to start asking questions. Personally I just stay away from them though.

 

I wouldn't call most pro-choice people "pro abortionists." Most pro choice people don't want to have an abortion.
I'm pro choice. Yet I'd never have an abortion and I wish others wouldn't. However I can't tell other women how to control their own body and I sure as heck don't like the government doing so.

 

I've learned things I didn't know before. It helped understanding an issue or candidate better. But I can't remember ever changing my position on an issue or being for or against a certain candidate. But it has helped in understand other's view points and positions better. It has also lead to some very interesting discussion with those who just do not spout the party line as if it is gospel. The truth is usually somewhere in-between what the two major parties profess it is.

 

I've been with a woman. It was boring because I had everything she had so really what's the point? I need a man!

I like to mess with conspiracy people by adding other conspiracies into their conspiracies.

 

I know, so why is it so difficult to get a moderate, middle of the road presidential candidate?
That's mostly a rhetorical question but if you have a good answer, I'll read it.