I Don't Think I Can Defend a Trump Presidency

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by rickysdisciple, Oct 15, 2016.

  1. rickysdisciple

    rickysdisciple New Member

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    I hate saying this, but I just can't keep supporting Trump. I never really thought he was a great candidate, but his stances on immigration and trade really resonated with me--they still do. It's also true that the effect he has on liberals is almost enough to justify supporting him in its own right.

    The problem is that what I originally believed to be a stratagem aimed at increasing his appeal to the masses is his actual personality, and that is a major problem for me. If I could continue thinking that he was just exceptionally clever in his ability to appeal to the common man, I might be able to shake off some of his baggage, but I no longer believe that is the case. I think he is impulsive, manic, poorly informed, and shallow in his thinking. I do not believe he has what it takes to be a good president, and I can't get behind his candidacy anymore. The comments on women really have little to do with this, but it certainly doesn't improve his image, in my eyes. I'm more sexist than the average guy, but I'm not a man who grew up eating from a silver spoon. Unlike him, I had to treat people with respect and as equals, not as toys to be manipulated at my leisure.

    Now, this is NOT an endorsement of Hillary. Hillary is bad for the presidency for a host of different reasons, and no one should be voting for her, either. I also still consider myself a nationalist, and I'd like to see this movement gain steam in the years to come. Unfortunately, Donald is not the man for the job.

    At the end of the day, this election vindicates my position on universal suffrage and why it's bad for the country. You, meaning those of you who like or accept our electoral system, are responsible for this asinine election, and you will be responsible when it's time to pay the piper. Those of you who have participated in this system your entire lives with no insight into what you are actually doing are responsible for our problems. It is the stupidity of our electorate and banal self-interest that got us where we are, and now all of us will have to pay for it in the long run.

    Because of you, we have been given the choice between an appointed candidate and a blowhard nuclear option--pat yourselves on the back for a job well done. You voted for the lesser of two evils your entire life, contributed to the continual degradation of our society as a result, and now you bemoan the travesty of this election. In virtually every election, you've had the choice between principle and doing what is "pragmatic," and you've chosen the wrong people every time, in both parties. You have engaged in the very same feckless, immoral behavior that the candidates do, and now you are flabbergasted that we've come to this point. It is your fault for being poorly informed, manipulated, and inculcated into a culture of blind loyalty to your party. If you ever took the time to understand how things work and why you believe what you believe, we might have better options to choose from.

    Look in the mirror--it is you who are the problem. This election is an indictment of the American people, and it is you who have failed us. Universal suffrage with no strings attached is a bad electoral system and needs to be reformed. The people have proven that they are not smart enough to have any political power, and this has to be remedied if society is to move forward. We can't continue allowing powerful people to manipulate the stupid into doing what is against our own self-interest.

    (If this doesn't apply to you, then I'm not talking to you--you know who you are.)
     
  2. Matt84

    Matt84 Well-Known Member

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    Party time November 8th! :clapping:
     
  3. rickysdisciple

    rickysdisciple New Member

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    You are part of the problem. Instead of realizing how sad this election is and what it represents, you are celebrating a "victory."

    This is not a victory. You will get your corrupt, appointed candidate who will continue the rigged system. I know the logic is very difficult for you to understand, but just because Trump is bad does not mean Hillary is good. I know this is how you've been conditioned to behave, but it is stupid and the reason I can't stand our system of government.
     
  4. Matt84

    Matt84 Well-Known Member

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    OK Cletus. Trying to decide election night dinner!
     
  5. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Yep go ahead and vote for far and away the greater of two evils. Hillary "I never met a bribe I wouldn't take" Clinton and her ever growing band of the conveniently (for her) dead.
     
  6. Stevew

    Stevew Well-Known Member

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    First off, many voters are being manipulated by the media, that is a fact. And Clinton has far more power of the media than Trump. So right there anyone should be using their critical thinking skills as they listen and read about either candidate.

    Trump's current problem is that the story running against him is easy for people to get their head around because it doesn't involve the complexities of learning what crimes Clinton has committed. Clinton has committed crimes, Comey just decided to make a political decision and not indict even though he ignored several tools available to him such as using a grand jury to make that decision to indict. Clinton is still getting sued by others at this time.

    Trump hasn't been indicted either and likely won't because his so-called crimes at worst if proven are misdemeanors. And there is also the statute of limitations that could prevent any action. If these women seriously wanted to go after Trump, then the best time would have been years ago when it happened, if it in fact happened. And many are she said - he said situations that could never be resolved in court.

    Clinton on the other hand has been laying plans to continue her crimes through a potential presidency with the pay-for-play plan and Clinton Foundation, hiding the money she receives while using her elected power to give donors what they need in the future. Her intentions have nothing to do with giving U.S. citizens what we need. Just the open borders and open trade comments in her uncovered emails and speeches will no doubt destroy the country as we know it. In addition, no matter what Clinton says during the election, can you sincerely believe her about ANYTHING?

    The bottom line here is that our choice is between Clinton or Trump. I'll take Trump any day of the week. But like I said, Clinton and her media buddies are trying hard to falsely muddy the waters so you can't tell which is worse. I read about something similar in George Orwell's book, 1984, where the main character rewrote historical news stories to reflect what the current tyrannical government wanted in order to brainwash the people. Think about it.

    Steve
     
  7. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    With all due respect, sir, and believe me I understand your pain, but any time you are choosing among people who are chasing after power you are choosing what appears to you to be the lesser of evils, For power is ultimately about controlling others and inexorably must mean that those seeking it must believe themselves to be smarter and better than everyone else. And yet no one can effectively control or even understand an economy as large and complex as that of the US and yet that is always the first thing these idiots try to control. Trying to control the economy is largely why we have the lowest worker participation rate since the Great Depression.

    Do I think Trump will be the greatest president ever? No but I do think he will do less damage to the country than will 4 to 8 years of Hillary Clinton.
     
  8. rickysdisciple

    rickysdisciple New Member

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    I agree with you and sympathize with everything you've said, but there is a point at which relative fitness is no longer relevant because both candidates are beyond the absolute threshold. In other words, both candidates are bad enough that being better than the next person means nothing. Yes, Trump's position on immigration is objectively good, but what confidence do I have that he can or will actually do something about it? Moreover, what other things am I signing on for? I know Hillary is bad for the country, and I'm reasonably uncertain about Trump, enough that I just can't make myself pull the trigger and vote. He is an extremely impulsive person who doesn't seem to have any belief system by which I can anticipate what he might do.
     
  9. rickysdisciple

    rickysdisciple New Member

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    Maybe you are right, but what kind of damage can Trump do to the nationalist movement that is sweeping across the globe? We have to look at the long run, and in the long run, a Trump victory could be even more damaging to what we are trying to accomplish than a Hillary presidency. Congress still has the ability to fight back, and I am almost certain there will be a massive recession in the next 4-8 years, so that could be the proper time for striking. Remember, whatever party holds the reins during a catastrophe ends up taking the blame, and we have to keep that in mind. I say we cut our losses and begin setting ourselves up for 2020.
     
  10. Stevew

    Stevew Well-Known Member

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    You evidently missed my most important point about Orwell's 1984 and the media.

    Steve
     
  11. Dale Cooper

    Dale Cooper Well-Known Member

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    Journalist Liz Crokin shares her perspective on Trump. Trump Does The Unthinkable - Liz Crokin

    Donald Trump is a racist, bigot, sexist, xenophobe, anti-Semitic and Islamophobe -- did I miss anything?

    The left and the media launch these hideous kinds of attacks at Trump everyday; yet, nothing could be further from the truth about the real estate mogul.

    As an entertainment journalist, I’ve had the opportunity to cover Trump for over a decade, and in all my years covering him I’ve never heard anything negative about the man until he announced he was running for president. Keep in mind, I got paid a lot of money to dig up dirt on celebrities like Trump for a living so a scandalous story on the famous billionaire could’ve potentially sold a lot of magazines and would’ve been a “Huge” feather in my cap.

    Instead, I found that he doesn’t drink alcohol or do drugs, he’s a hardworking businessman and totally devoted to his children. On top of that, he’s one of the most generous celebrities in the world with a heart filled with more gold than his $100 million New York penthouse.


    In 2004, the first season of “The Apprentice” aired and at that time I worked as an entertainment columnist for the “Red Eye Edition of the Chicago Tribune” and as a freelancer for “Us Weekly”. I had a gut feeling that Chicago contestant, Bill Rancic, was going to win the reality show. So I contacted him and covered the hit show the entire season. I managed to score an invite to New York for the show’s grand finale and after-party.


    This is where I first met Trump and got to ask him a few questions. That year, Rancic did win “The Apprentice”. I attended “The Apprentice” finale the next two years in a row. Between that and the frequent visits Trump and his family made to Chicago during the construction of their Trump International Hotel & Tower,..... I got a chance to meet most of his family too and I’ve had nothing but positive experiences with them.

    Since the media has failed so miserably at reporting the truth about Trump, I decided to put together some of the acts of kindness he’s committed over three decades which has gone virtually unnoticed or fallen on deaf ears.

    In 1986, Trump prevented the foreclosure of Annabell Hill’s family farm after her husband committed suicide. Trump personally phoned down to the auction to stop the sale of her home and offered the widow money. Trump decided to take action after he saw Hill’s pleas for help in news reports.

    http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/...m-faced-foreclosure-then-trump-saved-the-day/

    In 1988, a commercial airline refused to fly Andrew Ten, a sick Orthodox Jewish child with a rare illness, across the country to get medical care because he had to travel with an elaborate life-support system. His grief stricken parents contacted Trump for help and he didn’t hesitate to send his own plane to take the child from Los Angeles to New York so he could get his treatment.

    http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/...ick-child-so-donald-trump-came-to-the-rescue/

    In 1991, 200 Marines who served in Operation Desert Storm spent time at Camp Lejeune in North Carolina before they were scheduled to return home to their families. However, the Marines were told that a mistake had been made and an aircraft would not be able to take them home on their scheduled departure date. When Trump got wind of this, he sent his plane to make two trips from North Carolina to Miami to safely return the Gulf War Marines to their loved ones.

    http://www.hannity.com/onair/the-se...200-stranded-marines-needed-a-plane-14727522/


    In 1995, a motorist stopped to help Trump after the limo he was traveling in got a flat tire. Trump asked the Good Samaritan how he could repay him for his help. All the man asked for was a bouquet of flowers for his wife. A few weeks later Trump sent the flowers with a note that read: “We’ve paid off your mortgage.”

    http://www.hannity.com/articles/election-493995/a-couple-stopped-to-help-donald-14289119/


    In 1996, Trump filed a lawsuit against the city of Palm Beach, Florida accusing the town of discriminating against his Mar-a-Lago resort club because it allowed Jews and blacks. Abraham Foxman, who was the Anti-Defamation League Director at the time, said Trump “put the light on Palm Beach – not on the beauty and the glitter, but on its seamier side of discrimination. Foxman also noted that Trump’s charge had a trickle-down effect because other clubs followed his lead and began admitting Jews and blacks.

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB862335923489989500


    In 2000, Maury Povich featured a little girl named Megan who struggled with Brittle Bone Disease on his show and Trump happened to be watching. Trump said the little girl’s story and positive attitude touched his heart. So he Maury and gifted the little girl and her family with a very generous check.




    In 2008, after Jennifer Hudson’s family members were tragically murdered in Chicago, Trump put the Oscar-winning actress and her family up at his Windy City hotel for free. In addition to that, Trump’s security took extra measures to ensure Hudson and her family members were safe during such a difficult time.
    https://www.accesshollywood.com/art...on-family-up-for-free-in-chicago-hotel-66176/



    In 2013, New York bus driver Darnell Barton spotted a woman close to the edge of a bridge staring at traffic below as he drove by. He stopped the bus, got out and put his arm around the woman and saved her life by convincing her to not jump. When Trump heard about this story, he sent the hero bus driver a check simply because he believed his good deed deserved to be rewarded.

    http://buffalonews.com/2013/10/29/b...aching-student-riders-a-lesson-in-compassion/


    In 2014, Trump gave $25,000 to Sgt. Andrew Tamoressi after he spent seven months in a Mexican jail for accidentally crossing the US-Mexico border. President Barack Obama couldn’t even be bothered to make one phone call to assist with the United States Marine’s release; however, Trump opened his pocketbook to help this serviceman get back on his feet.

    http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/donald-trump-quietly-helped-marine-whom-obama-ignored/


    In 2016, Melissa Consin Young attended a Trump rally and tearfully thanked Trump for changing her life. She said she proudly stood on stage with Trump as Miss Wisconsin USA in 2005. However, years later she found herself struggling with an incurable illness and during her darkest days she explained that she received a handwritten letter from Trump telling her she’s the “bravest woman, I know.” She said the opportunities that she got from Trump and his organizations ultimately provided her Mexican-American son with a full-ride to college.



    Lynne Patton, a black female executive for the Trump Organization,released a statement in 2016 defending her boss against accusations that he’s a racist and a bigot. She tearfully revealed how she’s struggled with substance abuse and addiction for years. Instead of kicking her to the curb, she said the Trump Organization and his entire family loyally stood by her through “immensely difficult times.”



    Donald Trump’s kindness knows no bounds and his generosity has and continues to touch the lives of people from every sex, race and religion. When Trump sees someone in need, he wants to help.

    Two decades ago, Oprah asked Trump in a TV interview if he’d run for president. He said: “If it got so bad, I would never want to rule it out totally, because I really am tired of seeing what’s happening with this country.”


    That day has come. Trump sees that America is in need and he wants to help – how unthinkable!

    Share this article with everyone on your contact list. If the attacks on Trump permit Hillary to win, it will be a disaster for the United States, and this once great nation will never again be the same. What matters most is a Conservative Supreme Court, full support of the Constitution, rebuilding a denigrated Military, Religious Freedom and the Freedoms in the Bill of Rights and Constitution.
     
  12. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Break away from all previous history, constitution and so on, and ask Obama to stay on for another term. Perhaps in 4 years time, a couple of candidates worthy of becoming president may appear; Michelle Obama would be an improvement on the current candidates.
     
  13. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    You misunderstand. The Primary strength of Donald Trump is that he doesn't in particular belong to any party including the one whose nomination he won. He is a singular force that the two major parties created by means of their own sheer incompetence and inability to leave well enough alone.
     
  14. rickysdisciple

    rickysdisciple New Member

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    No, I understand your reference perfectly, but it doesn't change anything.

    Yes, the media is biased against Trump, consistently covers him unfavorably, and is doing everything in their power to appoint Hillary, the voters be damned. However, that does not mean that everything said about him is untrue. His personality is not a persona, it is actually him, and that is a problem for me.

    The bigotry doesn't really bother me at all. I'm more worried about his personality than anything else. I'm worried about how much damage he can do to nationalism as the president.

    All of those things aside, it doesn't change the other problems he has.

    Obama is part of the problem.
     
  15. rickysdisciple

    rickysdisciple New Member

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    You are right, but the voters will see it differently. Even if he gets elected, he won't have much political power because so many people hate him. Everything will be blamed on him and anything he touches will turn to ash. Many of the good ideas he supports are already being tarnished by his personality, and expect that process to get much worse if he's actually elected.
     
  16. Stevew

    Stevew Well-Known Member

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    NO, you did miss my point. Clinton CAN and WILL do anything she wants, legal or illegal, BECAUSE she has the media backing her 100-percent. And we have NO IDEA HOW BAD that can get. It can easily become tyranny.

    There's NO COMPARISON to Trump! He will ALWAYS be forced to stay honest and above board.

    Steve
     
  17. rickysdisciple

    rickysdisciple New Member

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    So we have to vote for Trump to stop Hillary?

    This is the same logic that keeps leading us to the same destination, year after year. At some point, people have to stop doing this and figure out a way around this problem.
     
  18. Stevew

    Stevew Well-Known Member

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    If you think that's what I meant, then I'm afraid the media has already brainwashed you. Why did you waste our time here?

    Steve
     
  19. Gaius_Marius

    Gaius_Marius Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think you never read 1984. If you did you didn't pay attention.

    The worst criticism of the western world that I have and especially the US is how people are wilfully ignorant. There is no censorship and yet people are almost as uninformed and ignorant as people living in an oppressive state that manipulates media, history and language.

    Tsk.
     
  20. rickysdisciple

    rickysdisciple New Member

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    So what are you saying? Since this is so complicated and I'm so brainwashed, I need you to teach me the error of my ways.
     
  21. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    Great, honest post.

    As I am Canadian, my opinion on the matter has little consequence, but there were points on which I was more in line with Trump than Clinton, especially regarding foreign politics (which are truly what matters when one is living outside the US). I wrote "was", because I finally decided that HRC is better than Trump, even thought she is atrocious.

    What tipped the glass for me? His comment about being too smart to pay taxes.

    Okay, sure - everybody on the ticket is a 1%-ers shill, opportunists who create then exploit a million ways to cheat the American taxpayer off their own contribution to what makes you guys a great nation. But Trump made a pride out of it, insulting those "not smart enough" that do contribute in paying your roads, armed forces etc. He flashed his greed as if it was bling.

    That, I can't tolerate. The greed, the nerve. There's still some *******n limits.

    May he burn in hell first.
     
  22. rickysdisciple

    rickysdisciple New Member

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    Judging from my experience in China, I would say that Americans are actually more poorly informed than the Chinese. Wait, Americans lack context for the all of the information they have. Americans have plenty of knowledge, but they adhere to false principles that don't conform to reality.

    Universal suffrage and the free press, combined with modern technology, have created this mass delusion that seems to be unique to the west.
     
  23. Stevew

    Stevew Well-Known Member

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    Try reading the book instead of watching the movie. It's free. It just requires you to use your brain for once.

    http://www.planetebook.com/ebooks/1984.pdf

    Steve
     
  24. rickysdisciple

    rickysdisciple New Member

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    Hillary's worldview is a major problem for me. Her comments about open borders really bother me, among other things, but I don't hate you for making this call. The fact that you ever considered Trump at all speaks to your ability think independently and not as a lemming. Though I disagree with your direction, at least I know you don't blindly follow people like most of the clowns out there.
     
  25. Doug_yvr

    Doug_yvr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    His crimes are sexual assault and sexual assault and battery causing bodily harm. Both are felonies.
     

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