Is it really so bad if a man slips a woman an abortion pill?

I think you need to give up this thread as a failure. You were clearly trying to get someone (anyone) to state that it’s a special case because of the foetus so you could strike back with a smug gotcha about abortion. You’ve been unlucky enough to come across largely calm, rational people who recognise the whole area as being more nuanced and complicated that such petty arguments give credit for though. You’re free to keep going around in circles with slightly altered wording or unrealistic hypotheticals and you might even eventually get a bite but even if you do, by that point it’ll be a stale and hollow “victory”.

 

That's easily dealt with.

It isn't a special case because the woman has a foetus.

Drugging anyone without their knowledge is wrong, no matter what the reason may be.

Doctors have special permissions to do so only when its for the benefit of their patient.

 

It's wrong to give anyone any kind of medication without their knowledge and consent. And if you do something that causes her to lose her pregnancy when only she is the one who can make that decision, then you're a special kind of terrible.

But honestly, we don't need all these thought experiments because this whole thing can be summed up pretty easily.

Don't try to make health care decisions for people who aren't you or people you aren't legally responsible for(in the case of children, elderly, sick partner, etc). Her body, her decision just like it would be my body and my decision were I a woman. If you want to make a difference, keep yourself healthy and concentrate on helping those people already born who are unquestionably conscious and a person and may need your support. Maybe in a perfect world where nobody born and walking this planet needed help we could start spending time on human beings who haven't been born yet, but I think it's more than a little stupid to make such a big fuss about fetuses when there are living breathing people who need help. It's like driving by a terrible accident scene where people need help because you're more worried about accidents that haven't even happened yet.

 

Women do have special rights over their own bodies.. Your thinking is very offensive.. Thank God my sons and the rest of the men in my life are not so screwed up.

 

forced abortion is just as bad as forced child birth, they are the flip sides of the same coin

 

I agree that it is, and should be, strictly a woman's choice in relation to what to do with their own bodies concerning reproduction.

If it is in fact her choice, and solely her choice, then she should be responsible for the consequences of her actions = if she chooses to take a pregnancy to term she should not be able to make someone else responsible for the costs associated with her choice.

 

If her insurance covers it, and most health insurance covers pregnancy and child birth, why would you object?

If she doesn't have health insurance she pays for it herself. If she doesn't have the money are you suggesting she has it at home by herself?

 

She isn't able to do that. Nobody else has any responsibility for her.

I expect you're talking about the fact men have no birth control choices after sexual intercourse has taken place.

There's nothing to be done about that. Women have a pregnancy they can choose to end and men don't.

Ending a pregnancy means no child will be born. Neither participant in the act of sex will become a parent.

It doesn't mean the government have given women a magical ability to make their children disappear that is being deliberately withheld from men.

Men have access to every birth control choice that science has made available to them.

Note the word choice.

 

Disgusting idea. Doing this to another person is basically slipping them a drug without their consent, the consequences of that drug is a secondary consideration. However, considering the gravity of the choice the woman had to make to keep the child makes this worse by a geometric order.

Stupid, disgusting idea

 

I can't quite believe I have to keep repeating this, do you actually read comments or just see what you want to see?

It takes away her right to CONSENT to what happens to an already existing condition, a contraceptive pill doesn't.

She doesn't have any special right over it, she has exactly the same right you do to stop another entity from injuring her without consent, using deadly force if required.

Does a father have to be asked if a mother can protect herself from their son or daughter if they are injuring her, by your logic a mother would have to get permission to defend herself from their son or daughter that is beating the crap out of her .. an absurd suggestion.

For the most I say it is about consent, and in future please do not cherry pick my comments, if you are going to reply then quote the whole comment.

 

I do not object ? I object to a woman making a unilateral choice to carry a pregnancy to term and then going after the sperm donor for money.

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I agree that it the woman's choice whether or not to carry a pregnancy to term. Not sure why you would read otherwise into my post.

 

Why not?

A. Sometimes it works.

B. There is the "little" Issue of the LAW that says fathers have an obligation to provide for their kids JUST LIKE WOMEN....
I imagine women must have to provide proof that "dad" is a pig loser and not contributing to his own children's welfare IF the woman wants aid for her and her kid...

C. Be happy! Many of these pig loser "men" DON'T pay for their kids....

 

Would the OPer the also agree then it would be fine to slip a man a drug that made him sterile? There actually is just a drug and it usually is permanent. A miscarriage can leave a woman sterile. There is no assurance a woman can become pregnant again after a miscarriage or abortion.

 

You are talking about poisoning someone, tearing flesh from their body. Violently and traumatically severing their connection to a new life their body is devoting almost all it's energies to create — without warning, knowledge or consent.

Yes, this is a terrible suggestion. The chemical, physical, and mental impact of a miscarriage is damaging. It can stay with you for life. It can scar you in ways that are irrecoverable.




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If a miscarriage is a tragedy, abortion is too. The fact that the woman chose the outcome doesn't take away all those negative factors.

 

Once a child is born the interests of both biological parents become irrelevant by comparison to the needs of the child. Any feuds and disputes, including money, between the bio-parents is between them. The child has a right to demand the people who created the child provide for the child - and society has the right and obligation to require both bio-parents do so.

The is a shocking level of hypocrisy when a man says that abortion is killing a child - while at the same time declaring he should have no obligations towards a child he did his part to create. Combined, that means he REALLY doesn't give a DAMN about children, even his own, and it is SINGULARLY about demanding control over women.

 

Bull(*)(*)(*)(*). People can and do make the choice to amputate a limb. That doesn't give you an excuse to chop off one without their having warning, knowledge, and without seeking consent.

If you think otherwise, imagine waking up one morning with something cut off. Nicely stitched up and all, you'll recover just fine. Maybe walk a little funny for a while. Would you shake that attack off as no big deal?




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most people don't give a miscarriage a second thought and if it happens early on enough they may not even know it was an abortion, and if they did not want to be pregnant, they are probably relieved to have miscarried

but that does not give a man the right to force a miscarriage on a women... also known as a spontaneous abortion

.

 

Not sure what else you else you could mean.

Especially after posting this:

I object to a woman making a unilateral choice to carry a pregnancy to term and then going after the sperm donor for money.

 

I think you are really mistaken....miscarriage and abortion do NOT leave women sterile...

 

All what negative factors????

Who says a miscarriage is a tragedy? Why do you keep saying that?

Tragedy for who? You?? What have you got to do with it?

It's totally illogical to say that if a miscarriage is a tragedy abortion is too.....one has NOTHING to do with the other....

 

You need to share this little essay with any woman you date...........

 

Just as there are stupid men ... there are stupid laws, and this is one of them.

There is also something called "The Rule of Law". One of the principles is that one person is not to be punished for the actions of another.

The pig loser in this case is the woman who wants someone else to take responsibility for the consequences of her action.

 

In the case of those who think all abortion is baby killing, your logic is sound.

In the case of those who do not think abortion is baby killing, it fails.

In the case of a woman who made a unilateral decision that a child be created, it is her responsibility to provide for that child.

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The objection is not to the woman making a unilateral choice.

The objection is the woman trying to make someone else responsible for the consequences of her unilateral actions.