ISIS threatens to topple Hamas tyrants in Gaza

And I suppose that when they attack us its also part of the big plan ? so there really is no way to disprove your theory, its true on allegations alone.

 

Why would it? to counter Iran? wasn't it what Saddam did anyway ?

Well I can't comment on conspiracy theories, I don't think chaos was the objective of the invasion but a democratic state, I think at Bush era the general idea was the Arab tyrants are suppressing the will of their ppl, spread propaganda and fear on the west to gain more control etc' once that's out of the way the ppl will want peace and prosperity because that's what we all want in life, that was the mistake.

 

I don't get it. Israel "wants" another Islamic state in its backyard? How does that work?

 

just thinking. Israel and the US wanted Syria and Lebanon and yes Iran defeated. The axes of evil and all that.

I have hit a nerve. No conspiracy theories there. The link from Jewish voice for peace is full of links.

I would not trust neo cons in any way. They certainly have created chaos whether that was their intention or not. They went against intelligence and created the very situation they said apparently they were wanting to destroy. Maybe just unusually stupid people...

The odds have been on for a very long time that the Iraq war was fought for Israel. As I said I provided you with a link full of links to illustrate her desire for this.

Apart from that the attack on Iraq was apparently an attempt to do another ataturk and show those Muslims a thing or two.


http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0411.hirsh.html

It was based on false premises and for that reason alone could never have achieved anything worthwhile. It was fought with no conception of the end game when it was in no way a necessary war. It has caused hundreds of thousands of death, indeed must be millions now and spread terrorism worldwide. To try to pretend Israel had no interest in it when it is so well documented that she did is silly.

 

I let Oded Yinon answer that one. As I said, things are shaping up nicely. Iraq has been broken down into three different entities, Syria has been broken down into even more different entities, North Africa is chaotic. Libya has become the main Sunni radical training base. Few days ago Israelis were attacked by some Druze people - guess why??? The Israeli soldiers were taking injured ISIS fighters to Israel for recovery. Go figure.

Oded Yinon's

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/pdf/The Zionist Plan for the Middle East.pdf

I believe the main Israel's goal is to pit ISIS/ISIL against Hezbollah. Israelis have unfinished business in Lebanon. Once ISIS/ISIL/Takfiris sufficiently weaken Hezbollah, Israelis will find the excuse to attack.

 

Srsly? Got a link?

 

Druze knew who those co called wounded rebels were. A part of ISIS group which few days earlier slaughtered 20 plus Druze in a village in Syria. Israel supports Sunni radical Muslims (Al-Nusra/Al-Qaeda/Takfiris/ISIS) in Syria for whatever purposes.


One Syrian killed in Druze attack on IDF ambulance carrying wounded rebels

Protesters extract two wounded Syrians from military vehicle in northern Israel and beat them; two soldiers wounded, too.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel/.premium-1.662498

Really, there is no any difference between those medieval savages. Coke or Pepsi? McDonalds or KFC? They will both kill you eventually.


Syrian civil war: Jabhat al-Nusra's massacre of Druze villagers shows they're just as nasty as Isis

The incident last week suggests that the US have let the al-Qaeda affiliate off lightly

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-group-is-just-as-nasty-as-isis-10318348.html

 

I think if Lebanon and Syria were such a threat to the US it would simply support Israel attacks without binding it, last OP/war on Lebanon left it very damaged, even Nasralla said had he knew that would be Israel reply he wouldn't have kidnap those soldiers, my point is there are better simpler ways to deter Syria and Lebanon than create such a fanatic force they cannot possibly control.

I'm not arguing about the call of the Neocons or their religion, Im saying no one can really say what they really planned, hoped for, saw as threat etc', to say they wanted Chaos in order to get more money, control whatever is a theory that cannot be proved,

As a rational man I don't believe in the existence of "Evil" I think ppl are motivated by fear and hope for better lives - even Da'esh, I still think Bush admin thought removing certain ME tyrants will be for the greater good both to their allies and to the locals - throu liberty and democracy.

Most ppl think other ppl think as they do, motivate by same basic values, its hard to picture a complete different reality the kind you never met before, I don't think it was made out of evil. but it certainly was a mistake.

I think the part of Israel opinion of it was as important as its opinion on the nuclear deal with Iran today - little to nothing, only for show, I base my opinion on the fact no one ever went to war for us in past life threatening situations (7 official wars and many more OP's), our enemies are much smaller and closer than Iraq yet we find it hard to enlist diplomatic support to fight them alone, the suggestion of America actually going to full scale war half a world away - just for us is......flattering but hardly realistic.

But you know that's a long lasting hatred between the Arabs themselves, we are perhaps guilty of gloating....

Israel was wrong to support it as it did, it should have recommended against it - if it knew any better,

I don't think you can prove it did - meaning that it knew it would result in chaos rather than a new democratic regime and I don't think you can prove it was made FOR Israel or mainly for its own interest's - I simply don't ever remember a case in history of mankind where one country went to war for another without any provocation, that sounds like a conspiracy theory to me - with all due respect the Jews for freedom and their website.

 

For Isis to get to Gaza they will have to travel through Israel. It will be interesting to see what Israel will do.

 

Im not wasting time on conspiracy stories, Yinon was a journalist and at some time worked for Israeli Hasbara, that's it, he has no influence over the gov and never had, Sharon which is listed among other leaders as supporters of this plan - in your source - was the one that fought against Israeli right wingers and pulled off Gaza, Begin that's also listed in your source - evacuated Sinai!

So how can both Zionist leaders plan to take over places they themselves had to fight in order to evacuate ? I'm sure you got another theory that explains it.

 

mmm......no, they come from Sinai directly to Gaza strip, they only need to pass Egyptian guards thru tunnels.

 

ISIS will get their asses kicked. They might think they are pretty tough being able to scare off a bunch of cowardly Iraqis, but Israeli's are not Iraqis. They will fight to the death against ISIS, and are much much better equipped than ISIS is. And they have overwhelming air support compared to ISIS. And there is no way that the U.S. would not support Israel, no matter how bad Obama has wrecked our relationship with them.

 

Right. ISIL is what Israel wants.

Wait should I ask for a web-site for that? Good Lord you arm chair experts you have it all figured out.

 

Phew.Let'skeep Saudi Arabia the progressive, tolerant, modern bubbling example of free speech and equal rights as it is shall we...

 

I am not saying they deliberately created ISIS and yes that would be a conspiracy theory. I am saying rather it would appear it suits them. However at the same time reality is that they went into Iraq with intelligence telling them that that would be the one thing likely to bring Al Qaeda types there and one has to wonder why. I think Hirsh gives a good account of the thinking in the link I left

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0411.hirsh.html

At the very least it was the most stupid and ill informed thinking. The US wanted war with Iraq and it certainly seems this was in Israel's interests - to get rid of Saddam and his support for the Palestinians rather than humanitarian one given to the public as well as the lies about weapons of mass destruction. The neo cons like perpetual war and they certainly know how to create it. I would agree with you about Lebanon and Syria not being a threat to the US but creating the right environment for Israel is certainly a major interest of neo cons and Christian Zionists and frankly many US politicians who want their fare paid.

Forget the bit I said about chaos. I was watching a bit of The Power of Nightmares again last night and it was reminding me of their general beliefs. That is where that came from rather than Iraq itself although it did fit in rather well.

You are not on the same wavelength as Bush. The word evil flowed from his lips with most breaths. I noticed that after 9/11 words like evil returning when we had stopped using them for quite some time, looking instead for the motivation and a way in which to communicate. There are psychopaths Gilos. They are people who have been emotionally harmed so much that they can no longer feel empathy. That is my feeling towards IS in general - Boko Harem even worse. They talk about having their time of savagery and then settling down but you cannot go around chopping off people's heads, raping women and sometimes even children and keep your heart open. It just does not happen. Maybe they will get a restricted society going and in time people will overthrow it but if they keep feeding them the junk they are and bringing children up to watch barbarities I would not count on it any time soon.............on another level, I completely agree with you that they are motivated by something else than the barbarities of their extreme Islam and that they are using that to try and get some justice and that the injustice which has been done to them both by the West and by their own rulers is the prime motivator for people joining them....I just think they have chosen a pathological model. When I was looking at what Sisi was doing last week for the first time I could appreciate why people might join them ....but then I think of them cutting off the head of someone just because they are Christian and those are crimes against humanity and I am left feeling that although yes, you are right, they have gone through hell and are angry but the way in which they have chosen to resolve these issues makes communication very difficult. There again the Church of Scotland believes that one possible reason for the onslaught against Christians may be because of Christian Zionists and the ME extremists believing that Christians en mass are to blame. I have though, against my better wishes, found myself beginning to see that there is a genuine reason for people feeling so desperate and disillusioned and they (extreme islam) in their different guises are the only show in town. In this way I think we in the West have been in error to call it all about Islam when although Islam is what brings them together, the shared vocabulary they use, just like the IRA called themselves Catholics when many were atheists, it is politics which mainly bring them together - then I get back into that awful society they want to build and any empathy is gone

I am not a person who believes in evil either. I spent two years of my life living in a Buddhist community and also worked for several years as a counsellor so not exactly a place where you believe in evil. I do however believe that people can get well off track and act exceedingly unskilful and that this can bring much pain to others. Particularly when people are incapable of empathy, they can do great harm - that I think was one of the things found to be most prevalent among the worst nazi's. Cutting off someone's head because they are a Christian or a Jew or whatever can never be right to me, nor can the rape of women and children or the forcing of young women to slit the throats of Christians as I learned last week the schoolgirls taken by boko haram have been made to do or be killed themselves. We do all have our values but these are really from the cess pit. Ideally such people would be healed though likely one would get one's head chopped off before that was possible. Likely they want respect as the humiliation of Muslims is one of IS's big things but I have to say that the way they have chosen, I do not know if there is a way back from. You cannot go around whipping women and doing all the other things and maintain your ability to feel for others. You just can't. And if you cannot feel for others you have nothing of our higher nature to spread around.

I don't know Gilos. See if you can find a working copy of the power of nightmares and watch it. These neo cons have much in common with extreme Islam. Now remember 9/11 was done to punish the US for allowing Israel to do basically what she wants, was it not? After 9/11 Bush managed to get Blair to completely change the British position on Israel and instead of working on conflict resolution and pushing for the two state solution to allow her to do exactly what she wanted which created a situation where the Palestinians would never get their state as Israel is much stronger. Blair got first Germany and then the rest of the EU to move on this and then we all moved to the right and took on the thinking of the neo cons. Afghanistan could have been resolved without a war. The Afghans were wanting rid of the Taliban and had plans. They wanted to have a democracy and asked the US to stay out and let them do this largely by psychological means and the US refused. They could have let them try first. It would not have hurt them. I think the reason they did not was simply they wanted revenge. In a similar way when Blair spoke after 9/11 about sorting out the ME, I thought we were going to see the Israel/Palestinian situation resolved but instead what we saw was a situation created where the Superior power was given a free hand to do what she wanted, where Hamas was wrongly equated with Al Qaeda and where the situation in Israel was never going to be sorted. It has occurred to me that due to 9/11 being a punishment for the US's actions in supporting Israel not coming to a resolution, the US decided that rather than come to a fair decision, it would really show them support for Israel and in that way punish them and show them what happens to anyone who messes with the big boys.

I'm getting tired now. That is enough for now.

 

[QUOTE Israel supports Sunni radical Muslims (Al-Nusra/Al-Qaeda/Takfiris/ISIS) in Syria for whatever purposes.


http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel/.premium-1.662498

Really, there is no any difference between those medieval savages. Coke or Pepsi? McDonalds or KFC? They will both kill you eventually.


Syrian civil war: Jabhat al-Nusra's massacre of Druze villagers shows they're just as nasty as Isis

The incident last week suggests that the US have let the al-Qaeda affiliate off lightly

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-group-is-just-as-nasty-as-isis-10318348.html[/QUOTE]

So what's the theory then. Where are the arm chair geniuses to explain how Israel supports ISIS but also its enemy Al Quaeda at the same time.

Oh we'll get to that.

Israel does not support ISIS any more than it dos Al Quaeda. There is no conspiracy. The your enemy is my enemy phenomena is temporary. It goes on all the time creating temporary alliances based on who the worst enemy of the day is. It does not mean you support an enemy because you share another enemy. It means for strategic purposes you choose a priority target.

The constellations of alliances between all the factions, ISIL, Al Nusra, Druze, Hezbollah, Hamas, etc., come and go between enemies who hold off attacking one another to attack another.

The Arab world has been at war with itself for thousands of years. The only thing that ever kept in unified was the mutual hatred of Jews and then the creation of Israel. The fact it can no longer rely on hating Israel to keep all its factions united of course for you anti Israeli geniuses must be the result of the Zionists using what mind control to manipulate? Right all these Arab peoples are savages right Silver Surfer? Savages. Then they are manipulated by savage Jews. Save the skin head analysis. You can't figure out which savage is which right Silver-they all look the same to you.

Save the simplistic skinhead analysis for the bald boys.

In the real world-Israel might help people in any factions that all detest it. It doesn't mean it supports them long term let alone agrees with their
beliefs.

Only an idiot would suggest Israel supports ISIL.

The fact that Britain found itself allied with Stalin during WW2 did not mean it supported Stalin or his views. In fact Churchill never allowd Stalin to sit next to him in any discussion or photo and had to be forced by FDR and Truman to even acknowledge his presence.

 

Exactly. ISIL is just doing the dirty work on the ground. Targeting Israel's enemies across the Middle East. Making sure Iraq and Syria stay broken for many years to come. And next in line is Lebanon. Israel made the deal with the devil for their own gains. Will it backfire? It remains to be seen. Many Israeli supporters are completely blinded purely because of their hatred for Iran. In your simple minds whatever causes problems to Iran or Hezbollah must be good. Simpletons logic. But Israeli strategists are to be admired for their ability to manipulate Sunni Arabs any way they want. Not to mention their ability to perform the magic when it comes to the USA. Deal with Iran? Nope. Dead deal. Because Israel says so.

Turkey and Israel Are Directly Supporting ISIS and Al Qaeda Terrorists In Syria

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/09/turkey-israel-directly-supporting-isis-al-qaeda-syria.html

Are you trying to tell me that patching up Al-Nusra, Al-Qaeda and ISIL fighters is something to be admired and supported? Anyone who supports that sort of actions must be an absolute imbecile.

Exclusive: Israel Is Tending to Wounded Syrian Rebels
http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/06/11/exclusive-israel-is-tending-to-wounded-syrian-rebels/

 

Of course you don't care. I notice you equate islam with crazy asshat chritisan fundamentalists et.al. which was part of my point.


Yes, my tolerance does make me and my community hospitable to Muslims.

 

Sam Harris wrote a book called The End of Faith that discussed at length any type of religious extremism and fundsmentalism.
In what community do you reside? What percentage of the population is Muslim?
Where on the planet is there a majority of the population Muslim that anyone would describe as liberal ir moderate?
Your quotes are pretty negative regarding religion. I find it odd to talk about your tolerance of faith in one sentence and call religious people ignorant fools in the next.

 

I live in Toronto with a muslim population of 8.2%. Nearly 50% of the population is foreign born.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Toronto
[/quote]Where on the planet is there a majority of the population Muslim that anyone would describe as liberal ir moderate? [/quote]

I would not describe the majority of muslims as "liberal, just like I wouldn't describe the majority of Christians as being liberal.
As for being moderate, that is a subjective measure. Malaysia is more moderate than Saudi Arabia. Morrocco is more moderate than Malaysia.

As for my negative comments regarding religion, yes, I reject religious dogma, I reject pseudo-science, I reject religious justifications for intolerance and hatred, I reject its hypocrisy. And yes, I do believe that scriptural literalists of all stripes are ignorant fools whose faith consistently trumps fact. OTOH, I have no problem with other people wishing to believe whatever they want as long as they don't try to impose their beliefs on me or anyone else.






Your quotes are pretty negative regarding religion. I find it odd to talk about your tolerance of faith in one sentence and call religious people ignorant fools in the next.[/QUOTE]

 

The problem is not Islam.
It's ARABS !!!

 

Where on the planet is there a majority of the population Muslim that anyone would describe as liberal ir moderate? [/quote]

I would not describe the majority of muslims as "liberal, just like I wouldn't describe the majority of Christians as being liberal.
As for being moderate, that is a subjective measure. Malaysia is more moderate than Saudi Arabia. Morrocco is more moderate than Malaysia.

As for my negative comments regarding religion, yes, I reject religious dogma, I reject pseudo-science, I reject religious justifications for intolerance and hatred, I reject its hypocrisy. And yes, I do believe that scriptural literalists of all stripes are ignorant fools whose faith consistently trumps fact. OTOH, I have no problem with other people wishing to believe whatever they want as long as they don't try to impose their beliefs on me or anyone else.






Your quotes are pretty negative regarding religion. I find it odd to talk about your tolerance of faith in one sentence and call religious people ignorant fools in the next.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

I criticize people for irrational thinking, biased thinking. I am genuinely one of the most open minded chicks you could ever meet. I almost never let emotion cloud my ability to see reason and fact. But, being the human being I am, emotion is part of my make up. This is a moment of revelation and truth for me, to you all. No Muslim has ever hurt me, attacked anyone I love. I have encountered probably less than five Muslims in my life. The opinion I have of them may be influenced somewhat by media. I am not religious. But I dislike middle easterners and Muslims profoundly. I don't want to live among them, I have no problem with my country profiling them in airports. I don't want to live in harmony with them. I think our military actions in the middle east are embarrassing. I am sure our reluctance to level them is politically and oil related.
I think what makes it so easy to hate them is seeing them behead journalists, knowing they exploited US regard for life and made our planes bombs by holding a box cutter to some woman or kid's throat. Knowing they strap a bomb to themselves and walk into a coffee shop in Israel.
I am even more disgusted with the open minded societies that welcome them like France and Scandinavia.
BTW, fundie Christians may say stupid stuff, but really, how threatening are they today?

 

i strongly support Hamas and feel that US citizens should be able to contribute $ and other items to their cause. It's time to break the Jewish-zionist strangehold on this 120year old conflict, time for Israel to feel some backlash from the good side. ISIS is garbage, and I say that as someone from the Sunni Muslim culture. Hamas is the best Muslim liberation group in the Ummah, worthy of support of all Muslims and non-Muslims.

 

Hahaha. Do you have any idea how much the US supports Israel and how much the US dislikes all Muslims? We don't understand your differences. Don't care to. Most of us suspect we haven't just blown that entire area of the planet into a hole is because of oil. There are no Muslim sympathizers in America.