It's on - July 2

Yep agree that state politics will play out in those states, especially WA.

Shorten won the people's forum pretty convincingly tonight as well. I can't help but think Turnbull had people wrapped around his little finger but failed to consolidate people's trust and belief in him. I think all credibility is lost.

 

Turnbull needs to tell people why they are going to election, else they'll think he called it early because he cannot do his job, and he needs to explain why the ALP policies are disasters before we all have to find out first hand.

 

Turnbull is struggling to do anything... He called an election with considerably great amount of time to put his case forward. He told everybody he was ready for the campaign. So 4 days after he called it, he could only manage 2hrs campaign time... I am sorry to say, Turnbull is turning out to be a far greater disappointment than the Shorten.

It is obvious to all about Turnbull does not know what to do. His advisors seem to be paid puppets that got him into the job but cannot now limit the damage HE did to get it. Turnbull may win by default, but it will be close. The ALP will only lose because of Shorten and nothing else. Some of their policies are toxic and rather detrimental to the economic conditions, but Turnbill seems not to be able to present anything close to substance to oppose them...

Again Turnbill seems to be the greatest mistake the Coalition has made since being elected...

 

ALP's changes to negative gearing will create slums in existing low income areas, and empty macmansion estates out in the bush - just like we saw in the USA prior to 2007/8. Why, because investors in established rental areas spend money on the upkeep of the properties because they can both afford to, and its in their best interests to. Low income earners have a habit of not being able to afford upkeep and improvement, and renters generally do not have any reason to bother.... and building lots of new estates further out is going to destroy more bush and risk leaving low income earners moving away from the jobs they really need to be living closer to, which means they will tend to become ghost towns. The whole ALP policy on negative gearing is designed just to reinforce their class warfare agenda and to grab money to prop up their other stupid ideas. Then again, just like in the GFC, the ALP loves to follow other countries lead because they have none of their own and are not connected to Australian business enough to know what is up from down....

 

Gee you are so full of it AT. I've never read so much crap in all my life.

 

Coming from you, doesn't mean much
There must be something you have some knowledge about but I"m yet to see it. So far all you do is hate on the LNP and anyone who supports them. Congratz, there is a name for something which just passes that sort of contribution....
Just face it, the ALP are a trainwreck and supporting them is an attack on our countries future. I'm sure even you can push yourself past your bias when you know its blinding you... just stop letting your emotion chain you to it, your political preference is not who you are so you can always change it and not feel 'diminished' as a person LOL

But yea, it's true, and you'd know it if you had any idea about that topic. Just think about it and you'll realize its accurate. Investors exiting established areas is not a good move. Not only that the whole damn direction of Australian society is for people to build their own superannuation through investments because no countries can afford pensions anymore. The ALP negative gearing policy is the most backwards nonsense I've seen in Australian politics since the carbon tax and mining super tax. Gawd help us.

 

The Carbon Tax would have been our ticket for a sustainable future, and what do we have now?
Abbott/Turnbull licking the butts of our coal mining industry, even a five year old will tell you that this future is already the past....
Cheers

 

Really, at present ALP and GREENS Supporters do not seem to be able to produce anything to swing support toward them. Some seem to consider that this forum is their platform to insult all about in some sort of attempt to show... well I still do not know what they think it shows...

Others post claiming bad policy which actually drags from the fiscal drivers of the economy claiming them to be great for sustainability. However, by saying such they clearly demonstrate to the world they do not understand what sustainability is.

There is one thing about the supporters mental capacity, if they simply left enough alone, instead of demonstrating their ignorance, the Coalition would be eating itself into oblivion. Let us face it, Other professions are running a far better campaign for the APL and Greens than the parties and their supporters. And then Turnbull is not doing any favours himself. I guess stupidity is going to get the Coalition across the line because it sure ain’t going to be popularity

 

Polls have consistently shown swings to the ALP from the results of last election or have you forgotten about the Prime Minister being replaced because of the polls.

Those same polls have shown the Greens vote growing since the last election as well.

 

Yeah, Yeah polls show this and that until you actually look at the substance of the poles...

I think you should take note of the poles before UK’s last elections and what occurred the night before. If you really think 0.00001% of the population is speaking for the population… Well I think you could get the picture.

BUT if you wish to point to polling to say some swing to the ALP, just remember that has not included SHORTEN. I have already pointed out that Shorten is the only reason I will not vote ALP. That is of course somebody could convince me that several policies are for the betterment of the nation not just short sighted money grabs to buy votes… So far nobody has even tried, just insult and innuendo demonstrating clear ignorance…

BUT hey, as I said, others are leading a better campaign for the ALP and Greens than the parties and their supporters…No, the only poll that matters is the election...

 

First of all, you are right that polls can be wrong and do have relatively small sample sizes but neglect the facts that in Australia polls have been within a percentage point or two in the last few elections and the fact that the last three Prime Ministers were dumped because of these polls that mean nothing.

Secondly, the ALP and the Greens haven't had ideal weeks but neither has the government; however, my opinion, like yours, is subjective and we will see what people thought in polling and on election night.

 

As I pointed to the UK polls because of the HUGE change evident during the election campaign so too have the polls in Australia. If you want to play statistical games, The English polls ended within a very small percentage too…

If you think a poll is going to make people vote for one party or another then really, that is the most superficial ideal yet.

However, none of the parties have had a good week but really none of them are selling their policies. The ALP have several toxic policies designed pure and simply as a money grab to pay for their election promises and they have not even considered addressing the debt they built for Australia. It has only been the last month or so that the ALP even considers the debt is an issue but of course they had NOTHING to do with it, it was those terrible Coalition people. The Greens just appear to have NO idea about economies and consider that money just grows on trees(well I suppose they are tree hugging hippies).

Of course my opinion is subjective but I do get around, the only people I talk too who think the ALP is the right group for the job are the drones who would vote for them if they were getting their arms and legs cut off by them. You know those morons who need the party to give them an opinion.

However, after talking too many, the main reason they would not vote for the ALP is that they do not trust Shorten and his few select party supporters (Wong, Conroy&#8230. The fact is, they are voting for the least disliked leader because they are disillusioned by the entire process… Shorten states they are now the more stable because they have not stabbed him in the back (not through lack of trying) but everybody knows it is because of the difficulty of leadership challenges in the ALP. No stability, just tyranny in the party.

No again, the ALP has not learnt its lesson while they put forward ignorant candidates such as Shorten…

 

Firstly, you have one case of polling being totally wrong; I can find several cases of polling coming close to the actual result and of people whose jobs are effected by elections putting a lot of faith in polling. I have never claimed polling to be perfect.

Secondly, I have said anything about polling changing people's votes; what I said was that the polling and the election result will reflect the views of people towards the parties and their candidates.

Thirdly, Your story, however true it may be, is anecdotal evidence that being the lowest form of evidence. I happen to agree that Shorten is not a good opposition leader but we can't know that for sure until the election because that is where his tenure as opposition leader will be judged.

Lastly, I haven't seen much media talk about dissent in the ALP (apart from asylum seeker policy) but that is not to say that it isn't there; however, the ALP will win the stability game against the Liberals because the Liberals spent the last term complaining about Labor infighting and then dumped their own party leader.

 

You seem to miss the point on the poll, it was not wrong. ALL the polling before the eve of the election was wrong not last one. Fact is, you will see a change on the last couple days before the Australian election which constantly demonstrates the polls before are not indicative at all.

Yeah, Yeah...

Sorry??? Anecdotal evidence??? It is NOT evidence of anything. My point is that I do talk to many people and of those I have spoken too lean toward what I have said. I have NO evidence to show this to be fact, but YOU can correlate it with people YOU talk too and decide for yourself if there is ANY merit in it or not... NOTHING MORE...

What??? Win stability game??? Do you not understand NONE of them can claim stability… The ALP stabbed 2 sitting members in the back with Shorten being a protagonist. Shorten has just recently put out a book claiming he had no prior knowledge of the Rudd stabbing yet just after her told interviewers he told Gillard to “go for it”. Shorten has been dogged since he was elected to leader by constant pressure and couple stoushes over his leadership.

No, you’re considerably disillusioned by the stability issue. Sure you can believe Shorten when he attempts to portray stability but as I have previously pointed out, everybody already knows it is not through lack of trying. As for Turnbull, who can deny that instability??? I have not even tried, yet you seem to think that is a difference you can sight as some sort of point to oppose what I am saying, it is not.

 

Well ain't that the pot calling the kettle black re: hate of LNP lol.

You are just a story teller AT. I bet you weren't too good at solving jigsaw puzzles. In fact I reckon you ripped out the scissors a few times and snipped those little pieces into shape, yeah? You can try and do that all you like with adult conversations but if the piece doesn't really fit, the picture won't look right.

The only train wreck we have is the current government and they're not labor, surely you were aware of that? I'm too scared to say their name just in case I'm viewed as being biased.

Negative gearing and superannuation: Of course people need money for retirement but the question is how much is sufficient and how should this be done. Yeah, people can do whatever they like to ensure that they prop up finances desired in retirement, BUT, the issue is how many tax dollars do we just throw away to support people with increasing superannuation. You see, people like me want to protect the future for our young people and why should the tax payer help pay for somebodies bad investment. Yes invest if you like and rely on capital gains and suffer the consequences in the meantime if property isn't positively geared. Allow young people to buy their first homes without competing with investors and essentially pushing up prices, especially out of range for the next generation. If young people could afford to buy their own home there would be a lot less need for rentals. Home ownership rates have dropped significantly, mostly due to inflated prices. Mortgage to income ratio's are through the roof. If you are so concerned about government debt burden on future generations, then you should be much more concerned about housing affordability for future generations.

Superannuation contribution scheme essentially supports the already wealthy. the maximum contribution is $30k. A middle income earner would be flat out contributing a 10th of that. The scheme benefits wealthy individuals who could live quite comfortably without having to contributing to super. This issue is that it reduces their taxable income substantially, which costs the government billions in revenue every year. Both schemes are a scam.

 

You could argue with him that grass is green but will argue that is blue.

Polls on the whole reflect the overall intention at a given time, for somebody to argue that they don't is arguing that grass is blue.

 

Case in point...

 

Yea right, but they can afford their holidays, latest phones, flatscreen TVs, nice home and more then 1 car, give us a break. I started from nothing so don't lecture me about the vulnerabilities of income earners. If you've got a middle class income you should be making great strides by now. The non-concessional contribution is currently $150k/year, so there are other options then the concessional cap of $30k/year.

The thing with money is it start slow, but accelerates in growth as it grows... of course the inherent risk and fickle human nature to always be dissatisfied means the real challenge is not shooting oneself in the foot and going backwards but we simply cannot afford to baby sit everyone anymore and hand out welfare like its a birth right.

The recent budget announced changes address the rorting of super by the wealthy. They cap it at $1.6mil and limit non-concessional contributions to $500k total. That is a friggin big deal in tackling tax minimization by the rich, and if you don't realize that then there is a lot your missing. In fact I'd bet all the Green's voters and 85% of the ALP voters haven't got a clue about superannuation... so no wonder they think they are on the side of the battler. In reality its the LNP who are gonna deliver more to the poor then the ALP or Greens!!

Further if you think 1.6mil is a lot of money for superannuation then yea it is, but its a maximum value which if invested in rental housing might give you an income of about $82k/year maximum.... which is not a huge amount but well above what is required to live - in fact I'd say it is not quite double the amount required to live a middle class life in retirement. Super is meant to replace the pension entirely, but it does not have to be linear concessional contributions - you can make it grow on its own and in fact you bloody better else your going to like most all retirees and retire realizing you need a lot more then you thought!!

 

[video=youtube;WKjPU5v1fxg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKjPU5v1fxg[/video]
Too bad you guys can't have guns anymore.
What do you do when there's a rabid animal around?

 

We quote him in a thread

 

AT, you completely lack a grasp on the nature of societies brought on by your own hubris. You see the difference between you and I it seems is I feel fortunate about my circumstances and the opportunities and support systems around me. I'm certainly not doing it tough by any measure to be honest but a little more grounded in my own fortunes. Yep I've worked hard and made decisions based on opportunities given but those opportunities aren't because I as an individual made it all happen. It was more a case of timing, luck and capacity and circumstances. I wasn't raised with a silver spoon in my mouth but I was quite fortunate in many ways compared to many others. It seems the people like yourself who were down and out are the harshest of critiques concerning other people's circumstances. Totally blind due to your newly self proclaimed journey to lofty heights. I always wondered why the pyschy was different for people like you who obviously want to distance yourself from the humble beginnings and glory in your own achievements. It's sad dude. Not everyone can be a lawyer, an entrepreneur, builder developer or IT worker etc etc. The world wouldn't function and many of us would not be able to operate without having the support workers or labourer doing their bit. The fruit picker, the toilet cleaner, the rubbish collector, the admin assistant are essential to our lives, but people like you want to focus on me me me me. Look at me, I've done this, I've done that, so there are no excuses for anyone else. This is what a call a silly deluded little world of self importance.

I've obviously just discovered that the coalition are wanting to make some changes to superannuation. This is great but it took a labor plan to expose and instigate some action in this area. The changes will provide significant savings but will it be enough in ensuring our toilet cleaners, admin officers and fruit pickers are given appropriate opportunity to retire reasonably.

I haven't read completely through labors plans on super so can't make a complete judgement on the coalitions proposal.

 

You have an imagination I'll give you that. Considering your following of the ALP it seemed you lacked even that....

... just consider that the ALP negative gearing proposal will protect the existing rich and shut down one of the most accessible vehicles for wealth in this country. Who is it shutting it down for, the future generations and poorer people who are tying to get ahead. I actually think quite a few rich people will be voting ALP this time around because Shorten seems keen to protect them, and they do not like the LNP's superannuation changes which force the rich to pay more tax. Funny how the lefties seem blinded to the truth and puppet the hypocrisy, very curious, but keep on crafting personal attacks with your imagination... because I know your repeated fantasy attempts at ad hominem are all you've really got when it comes to an argument here. I'm glad you just found out about the superannuation changes announced a few weeks ago at the budget, maybe it will inform you a bit more about what is really going on.

 

It is simply not possible to be a honest politician. Read Machiavelli. You need to do evil deeds to remain in power. The Coalition didn't look like it would switch leaders for 50 years on the night of Abbott's election, but that changes with the circumstances.

Those who are honest do not achieve power. Go ask the Shooters and Fishers Party how honest politics is going for them.

[hr][/hr]

I don't so much have a problem with them breaking promises so long as its to a good end. That's the best you can hope for in politics. I think on the balance of things the Libs have done a better job, but only marginally. I will likely be accepting the $40 fine, since I have a choice between Liberal, Labor and Green in my electorate and I despise all three.

 

Imagination?? You've exposed yourself unashamedly about how you feel about yourself and those not so fortunate. Sad state of mind.

Wealth creation is a load of dog eat dog hogwash. If you are talking about a sustainable future for future Generations then negative gearing is not going to cut it. If people want to create wealth and leave everyone else in their dust then don't do it on the back of tax paying dollars. I don't view my home as capital, I see my home as my solace and a place to bring family together. When and if it comes time to sell then I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. I wouldn't know what it's worth and don't really care but know it would probably fetch much more than what I build it for. It's a nice home but one that provides my family and I comfort.

Labors plan for negative gearing will possibly slow the market down a little but hey! It's about sustainability and affordibity. House prices cannot continue to rise and let people who are indebting themselves to the eyeballs to try and create wealth for themselves destroy our whole real estate market because of greed due to this wealth creation concept. It's either we pull it back slowly and sensibly now or see our house prices plummet to levels even less desirable. It's crazy the mortgage to income ratio these days and feel sorry for every bugger that had to buy in these excessive times to create wealth for the tax bludgers.

 

What are you talking about, stop being a sad frak. You can invent persona's for forum posters if you like but don't expect not to be held up when you run off into delusion land with them.

Wow, that is deep. You've like, just invented socialism dude, or is it solipsism... I can't tell. Meanwhile in the real world, you need to get out of the 20th century mindset - because we cannot afford it anymore. They have been saying it for over 20 years, pensions are no longer viable. The old way of buying a home and paying it down slowly to pay off with your superannuation and living off the pension has effectively GONE.

Quite simply you've no choice but to create your own wealth now, otherwise you'll be working till you die or getting an injury and living of disability allowance. In the future they will increase their effectiveness to reduce rorting of welfare simply because we will not be able any longer to afford paying both the legitimate recipients of welfare and the illegitimate recipients - that is not cold or harsh, or inhumane, its accurate.

In case you had not noticed, there is a huge population on this planet and bludging is complicit in its destruction. Our only hope as a species at this point is to move forward fast enough to stay ahead of our own annihilation. If you don't want to work, fine, but don't expect anyone to think the outcome is anything other then what you deserve for not working. It's the difference from being a child to an adult, this theoretical child has a safety net to make mistakes and learn and grow into an adult. An adult then by definition is a contributing responsible member of society - not a self serving lazy (*)(*)(*)(*) who wants welfare like a reward for the little bit of effort taken to get classified as a recipient.

There are various markets to develop wealth, and various ways to interact with any particular market.

Your perpetuating a diseased interpretation, that the family home should somehow be affordable to young people, lol, right... because mommy and daddy had one perhaps. Young people who want to work in the city will need to do what has happened everywhere else in the world, move into units rather then inner city housing. It's just young people don't want to think they have to lower their standard of living from their parents, so they whinge about it.

Times have moved on, not because of local political policy but rather global factors. These things are not going to change. We either empower the individual or let them be cogs in industry.

The later is the ALP's approach, as the ALP is the political arm of the Union movement, and the Union movement hates small business because it can get so much more out of large multinationals.

What is really happening is the ALP wants to ghetto the inner suburbs by shifting investors out of them, knowing the low income owner occupiers will degrade the quality and price of those areas so that large multinational developers and constructors can come in and create more units. Expanding the city out and repeating the cycle, ever onwards outward. The ALP only wants to fuel its revenue stream through the Unions at the cost of everything else.

Anyway, there is lots of low cost housing, the problem is people living beyond their means. The real problem is lack of business education and lack of political interest on one side of politics (the left) in fostering small business and innovation.