It's on - July 2

Trust has to be apportioned to anyone, and some lies are blatant intended to mislead, and some are inadvertent, and some are buried to hide them. I'm not saying they don't lie or go back on their word when circumstances change, I'm just talking about conduct.... with Shorten investing so much effort into such a blatant lie it really makes him look like he'd get on his knees for a cab fare... if you know what I mean. The important distinction to consider also, lying about oneself is one thing, but lying about someone else is another level worse in my book. And then to try to make it look like it came from a government department? Seriously?? Perhaps they should be disqualified LOL

 

Medicare is a serious concern in liberal hands...full stop! As for the text messages, yes it was completely wrong but they have identified the source. At the end of the day it was policy not personality and liberals have got it wrong. People no doubt are waking up to their lies, deception and elitist mentality. Need more to become aware of this and change the political landscape for the betterment of our nation collectively.

People are sick of both parties but it is the liberals who are stuffing up everything from the economy, NBN, climate change and the renewable energy industry all just to bring in their elitist policies that would leave 90 odd % or more of the population enslaved.

 

Enough with the empty propoganda lies, the campaign is over. The NBN was dead in the water under the ALP, climate change is on track under the LNP to exceed targets etc etc

 

I just heard a Labor spokesman say that under the law Labor can not be held responsible because they are not a tangible product as such, but the individuals who were behind the texts may have a problem.

Whilst Julia Gillard was PM a bloke that very much looks like Chris Bowen approached the cabinet about the idea of privatising the payments system to make it more cost effective and expedient. He did so on behalf of the AMA at the time. Obviously it did not go down at the time. I guess this is why the AMA are scratching their heads in confusion at the moment.

Good idea or not it doesn't really matter. Labor played the Libs perfectly, and in doing so reminded Australians that they are in fact stupid, and there is no place for decency in politics.

It will be interesting to see how things transpire if in fact the Federal Police do find that these texts had a bearing on the final outcome of an election.

 

Slippery, I'm a centrist and not necessarily a labor supporter but believe that the labor party represents the centre. The Libs would if they kicked those do nothing, waste of space, visionless conservative nutters from the national party to the curb.

Of course the text messages were wrong but that had no bearing on the election. QLD liberals did better than other states, and how far flung those text messages were is another question. It's just sour grapes from the coalition who are looking for silly excuses for why the election come to this for them. Their hypocrisy is evident and shameless.

 

Billions of dollars that we apparently don't have goes to big business to address climate change allowing them to buy land and dig big *********s to bury their sh!t rather than a system that was built on a renewable innovative industry that addresses the needs of every Tom, Dick and Harry on this big island continent and beyond.

The dirt road(NBN) that the liberals were building costs just as much and taking just about as long as the concrete bitumen road that the labor party were building(fibre to Premise).
Nations who had system with fibre to the node recogonise how inferior the system is and are now starting work on getting rid of copper at humongous costs. The coalition NBN is a complete waste of time and taxpayers dollars.

So no propaganda just straight out simple and easy to follow information.

 

I don't think anything much will come of it. It doesn't matter what Bowen put forward it didn't gain any traction. It was obviously like trying to walk up a soapy slippery dip. The coalition took steps that were heading in that direction. One or two steps is enough to make one wary. The Australian people have proven that they are waking up to their deception.

 

Its head shaking to try and understand why so many Australians voted for these lying politicians again.

We can all have a bit of laugh & joke at different people's intelligence, but the fact that over 80% of Australians still voted for the two major parties begs the question if something more serious has happened to the Australian intellect.

The question is: "What is it going to take to wake Australians up"?

Its staggering to think that the majority of Australian voters will fight over, and go on the protective defense of a complete strange politician and political party like they would someone personally close to them.

 

People come on here and fight over which political party has done a better job doing what, based entirely on the biased information the politicians and media provide. And the truth is; no one would ever really know what the correct information is unless they were personally privy to all the correct documents.

One fact that everyone knows is that politicians are habitual liars, but the people dismiss that fact, and still believe politicians like they were Gods.

Turnbull told everyone before the election he would not seek help from anyone else to form a Government, and now he has broken that statement.

You keep voting for liars, then you get what you deserve.

 

I agree. it seemed the coalition was damned if it did or damned if it didn't when it came to the medicare scam. It was as though the public was just looking for a reason to vote them out, considering every media outlet called Shorten out on the lie and still it gained traction. Fear sells. We now have Pauline in on zenophobia and in my parts the tragically homophobic Katter. All in on protest spawned by fears. Perhaps Abbott was right when he implored Turnbull to play the illegal boat arrivals card. Turnbull refused and now here we are.

Turnbull can not last regardless of the outcome, he just simply does not have the numbers and the party has not got the backbone. Shorten has as many problems as well and the merry go round continues. The only way Shorten can last is if he actually gains power, but most experts say that this is unlikely.

It may well of been a win for democracy but it is a loss for progress and stability, and after nearly a decade of uncertainty, another three years of coming and going may well be the straw that breaks the camels back.

 

I agree with most of what you say Slippery but I can't agree on loss of progress over that whole time. The last 3 years with a massive majority in lower house, near nothing was done when you compare bills passed under the previous hung parliament arrangement. There was certainly no stagnation there.

Instability would have to be caused by us the voters. Collectively Australia said NO to carbon pricing and boat arrivals. Collectively Australia has said NO to industrial relations changes. Collectively we have said NO to messing with the Health System. Collectively we have said YES to marriage equality. Whoever can blend these policies without underhanded tactics and sleight of hand will gain stability.
I agree with an ETS and I personally would like us to offer more support to Asylum Seekers and certainly don't want to pass judgement on who can marry who!

Politicians need to get in the progressive stream because at the end of the day, that is what Australians want on the whole. We want stability and investment for the future.
Each side has strong personal opinions on certain issues including those above, but at the end of the day they need to be addressing our needs and desires and not their own. They need to forget about their own bigoted attitudes and do what is right and desired by the people. If their personal opinions and stances can't be sold to the people then too bad, don't introduce something that is based on own personal bigoted attitudes. Yes, in government you have more opportunity to sway the people but until that is done then don't touch it.

Howard lived by this formula but failed at his last hurdle because he thought he had the people wrapped around his little finger. At the end of the day I will argue that Howard's policies were wrong and certainly not helpful for Australia's future but that is what the people wanted. They wanted nothing for the future but just the now.

Whoever grasps this concept and the one little Johnny lived by will be in government for a very long time whether we all agree with them or not.

 

Maybe the ballots should be printed on landscape A4 or letter-sized paper and people could draw penises beside the candidates names. The longest penis is the first preference vote and the shortest, the last preference.

I don't think that comparisons to the US. Their system is unwieldy and too many rent-seekers have too much power to motivate much reform. A more apt comparison is to Canada and the UK with short times between dropping the writ and election day, albeit with longer election cycles (4 in Canada and 5 in the UK). You are probably right that the results wouldn't change that much.

 

Perhaps the ordinary voter (a mythical beast) was sick and tired of an incompetent government?

 

That's what you call cutting to the chase. Make me feel like a raving lunatic

 

What progress and stability are you referring too? Selling-off every Australian asset to foreign ownership to pay back debt, or allowing Australian land to be sold-off to foreign ownership?

Have you considered that many Australians are finally waking up to politicians lies, and some actually decided for themselves that there was a reasonable possibility that Turnbull would meddle with, and sell off Medicare if he got the chance?

Didn't Turnbull tell everyone before the election that he would Govern in his own right, and not seek help from any other party or Independent to form a Government. Just another bloody lie from an untrustworthy parasite politician that many people have come to recognise.

How is Pauline Hanson being xenophobic for wanting a Royal Commission into Islam and banking?

 

Thanks for making me feel better about not voting. I read the policies of all the progressive parties and while there were some lovely social policies I support 100% no one offered what I was looking for economically- first and foremost that the Federal government's spending is not revenue constrained.

I'm waiting for the AEC please explain letter.

 

Could you (or anyone) explain to non-Australians why a minority government is a bad thing? I realise that Australia has only had two previous minority governments, so they are a rare occurrence over there. We've had 10 minority governments in the past century. It's a preferable state of functioning. Governing parties need support of the opposition parties for support and opposition private members' bills get passed. The concept of supply agreements are unknown here. The cost of a snap election forces parties to cooperate more and coalitions just don't happen. (Experience in other Westminster democracies that support parties get slaughtered in subsequent elections.) What makes Australia's Parliament different than other similar parliaments such as those in Canada, Ireland, New Zealand or the United Kingdom so that people are adverse to minority government?

 

Interestingly this is the debate that is going on right now because there was MORE legislation passed under the previous minority government (Gillard) than under the liberal majority government

Interesting times - just watched Turnbull and Shorten give the " we did not really lose" speeches and I thought Shorten had some very valid points as to why Labor based their campaign on medicare concerns. I had not realised the full list of what was being targeted.

Bottom line is it is political suicide in Australia to touch the health care system

 

You should not look on this as a failure of the system but rather the system actually working and working well. "Keeping the Bastards honest"[/QUOTE]

Yep. It's doing exactly what it was designed to do. Minority government is the norm. It is rare for either party to have the majority in both the upper and lower house. Our system was designed that way. Our upper house has tremendous power compared to other democracies to prevent sitting governments enacting legislation harmful to the majority of citizens.

 

The difference is the point about parties and members working together due high costs of elections and the fact the population makes politicians pay at the election booths.

There is a certain amount of the Australian population who simply vote for parties because their father did, their grandfather did and their great grandfather did. No matter what these parties do to their supporters they will continue to support the party, don't get me wrong they will moan and cry about how government is not representing them but they will find some way to disassociate the party they support from any harm they do.

So when you have a couple parties, with the only agenda of getting onto government they will do everything to stop the other from actually doing well in government. For example, ALP drones like to babble about the amount of legislation passed by the ALP minority government of Gillard. I believe the point would be to look at what type of policies were passed. I hardly believe changing the name of OH&S legislation to WH&S policy exactly great legislative passages just as example.

In other words, Australia in minority government will mean dramatically slower dealing with all parties for passage of legislation on each and every point of legislation where all member believe it to be the government's initiative to bring policy to them for personal appraisal before even drafting the legislation. As it is only the major parties who have the staff to appraise legislation at the quantities presented then the smaller parties and independents need to be told expectations. Members of the independents who passed the RSRT all claimed they passed the legislation in good faith without understanding the impact.

All in all the difference is the people involved and their attitude. Shorten, who believes insult, innuendo and lies are the norm. A party who has been lead to simply oppose everything the government introduces with the excuse of “keeping them honest” when they oppose their own legislation obviously simply because they were removed from government.

 

Things certainly stagnated over the course of the last 3 years under the liberal government. The coalition played hardball at every turn in opposition with relentless negativity like Australia has never seen before and probably never will, that's if there isn't another Tony Abbott hiding in the ranks. Australia was moving quite nicely under a minority government and even had an upgrade of credit rating to AAA+. Now looking at a downgrade due to the incompetence and pretension of the Libs as consumate economic managers.

If Libs win majority and I hope they do, it will reveal the truth about their economic prowess but will no doubt come at a cost to Australia. I notice Howard has called for a reform of Industrial Relations, which is a pessimistic step back rather than a visionary step forward. It is more of the sit on your hands and do nothing approach.

Howard knows full well his tenure was totally different but you notice when things started getting tough the first people he wanted to go after was the poor blue collar worker. The very people who kept him in power.

 

Lol, funny thread getting funnier. Australia moving along nicely under the ALP is hilarious....

 

Proof is well and truly in the pudding. Economy is always better under Labor.

 

LOL, yea right

 

What's your graph suggesting? Can you explain it to us?

Where is your link AT?