Jihad vs Crusades

The Koran was MEANT to be taken literally!

As you know.

Or maybe you DON'T know.

Here. Don't say I never did you a solid.

Mohammed’s Last Year

by Bill Warner | posted in: Mohammed and the Unbelievers | 2

Mohammed and the Unbelievers

Mohammed’s Last Year

CHAPTER 24

THE FAREWELL PILGRIMAGE

I968 Ten years after entering Medina, Mohammed made what was to be his last pil-grimage to Mecca, where he made his farewell address. He told the Muslims that usury was abolished; Allah would judge them and their works; all the blood shed be-fore Islam was to be left unavenged; and the lunar calendar was the sacred calendar and was not to be adjusted with respect to the solar calendar.

I969 He also told them men had rights over their wives and women had rights over their husbands. The wives were never to commit adultery or act in a sexual manner toward others. If they did, they were to be put in separate rooms and beaten lightly. If they refrained from what was forbidden, they had the right to food and clothing. Men were to lay injunctions on women lightly for they were prisoners of men and had no control over their persons.

M473 He said to feed and clothe the slaves well.

I969 He said every Muslim was a Muslim’s brother and to take from a brother only what he willingly gave.

I970 Then Mohammed led the Muslims through the rituals of the
pilgrimage.

THE FINAL STATE OF CHRISTIANS AND JEWS

M453 When Mohammed first was preaching, his religion was Arabian. Then during the last phase in Mecca, he made Allah the same as Jehovah and introduced Jewish elements into his faith. When Mohammed moved to Medina, he argued with the Jews when they denied his status as a prophet in the line of the Jews. He then annihilated the Jews and said no more about his Jewish roots. In his last statement regarding them, Jews and Christians became perpetual second-class citizens, dhimmis:

9:29 Make war on those who have received the Scriptures [Jews and Christians] but do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day. They do not forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden. The Christians and Jews do not follow the religion of truth until they submit and pay the poll tax [jizya] and they are humiliated.

MISSIONS TO WORLD LEADERS

T1561 Mohammed sent letters to the leaders of the countries immediately sur-rounding Arabia demanding submission to Islam. The leader of Egypt thought enough of the invitation to send Mohammed four slave girls. One of these girls was especially attractive to Mohammed, and she was a Christian. Her name was Mary and, as the reader will remember, she bore him a son.

T1566 The letter was received well by the Christian leader in Rome. He said he knew from the sacred texts that Mohammed was a prophet sent by god and that Christians had been expecting him. He would follow Mohammed except that doing so would get him into political trouble with his Roman superiors. So he sent Mohammed’s ambassadors to a Christian bishop instead.

T1567 The bishop also said Mohammed was the one prophesied in the Christian texts and was even mentioned by name. But in the end no one took any action.

T1569 The letter from Mohammed demanding submission to Islam was also sent to the Ethiopian Christian king. The king replied that Mohammed was the one prophe-sied in the Christian texts and was the prophet of the only god. He sent his son and sixty Ethiopians by boat to Mohammed, but the boat sank.

T1572 When the letter was delivered to the king of the Persians, he tore it up. Mo-hammed said his kingdom was torn up at that moment.

A SUMMARY OF MOHAMMED’S ARMED EVENTS

I973 In a nine-year period, Mohammed personally attended twenty-seven raids. There were thirty-eight other battles and expeditions. This was a total of sixty-five armed events, not including assassinations and executions, for an average of one every seven weeks over a period of nine years.

M19,4294 When the Messenger of Allah appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment, he would especially exhort him to fear Allah and to be good to the Muslims who were with him.

He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war, do not embezzle the spoils; do not break your pledge; do not mutilate the dead bodies; and do not kill the children.

When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to accept Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them.

Then invite them to migrate from their lands to the land of Islam and inform them that, if they do so, they shall have all the privileges and obliga-tions of the Muslims. If they refuse to migrate, tell them that they will have the status of Bedouin Muslims and will be subjected to the Commands of Allah like other Muslims, but they will not get any share from the spoils of war except when they actually fight with the Muslims against the disbelievers.

If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the jizya [the tax of submission]. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them.

When you lay siege to a fort and the besieged appeal to you for protection in the name of Allah and His Prophet, do not accord to them the guarantee of Allah and His Prophet, but accord to them your own guarantee and the guarantee of your companions for it is a lesser sin that the security given by you or your companions be disregarded than that the security granted in the name of Al-lah and His Prophet be violated.

When you besiege a fort and the besieged want you to let them out in ac-cordance with Allah’s Command, do not let them come out in accordance with His Command, but do so at your own command for you do not know whether or not you will be able to carry out Allah’s behest with regard to them.

NIGHT RAID

B4,52,73 Allah’s Apostle said, “Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords.”

I974 Mohammed sent Ghalib on a night cavalry raid on an Arab tribe. Near the village, he and his men captured one of the tribe’s leaders who said he was now a Muslim. He was told that, if he was a Muslim, then one night tied up would do him no harm. They bound him and left him guarded by a black man, who was ordered to kill him if he tried to alert the rest of the tribe.

B4,52,256 As-Sab Bin Jaththama said, “The Prophet passed by me at a place called Al-Abwa or Waddan and was asked whether it was permissible to at-tack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger.”

The Prophet replied, “The women and children are from pagans.” I also heard the Prophet saying, “The institution of Hima [reserved pasture land] is invalid except for Allah and His Apostle.”

I974 The cavalry got to the tribal area at night. One of them went to scout and lay down on a hill overlooking the village. A villager saw a dark shape on the hill and thought the scout might be a dog. He shot the “shape” twice with arrows, but the scout did not move; so the man figured the shape was not something that was alive.

I974 When the tribe had herded in their cattle, milked them, and gone to bed, they were attacked by the jihadists who cried out, “Slay, slay.” Some of the tribe were killed, and their cattle were driven off. The cries of the injured attracted the attention of the other tribe members, and the Muslims fled with the cattle. As they were pur-sued, the thieves went down through a dry gulch, but soon thereafter a flood came down the gulch and prevented pursuit by the injured tribe. The Muslims took the stolen cattle to Mohammed.

THE RAID AGAINST THE JUDHAM

I976 Mohammed sent an envoy to a Byzantine chief. On the way home, the envoy was raided and lost all his goods to the tribe of Judham. The envoy appealed to a neighboring tribe who were under treaty with Mohammed. They attacked the Jud-ham and recovered the stolen goods.

B4,52,196 Mohammed said, “I have been directed to fight the kafirs until every one of them admits, ‘There is only one god and that is Allah.’ Whoever says, ‘There is only one god and that is Allah,’ his body and possessions will be protected by me except for violations of Islamic law, in which case his fate is with Allah, to be punished or forgiven as He sees fit.”

I977 When the envoy returned to Mohammed and told the story, Mohammed sent out Zayd with armed men for vengeance against the thieves. The men attacked what they thought was the enemy clan, killing five men and stealing one hundred women and children as well as their cattle.

I978 When the chief of the clan found out what had happened, he saddled his camel and took a treaty to Mohammed. The Muslim army had attacked the wrong clan; this clan had a treaty with Mohammed. So Mohammed had Ali go out and meet the vic-torious armed band, and they returned the women, children, and cattle to the clan. The clan forgave them the five dead.

ZAYD’S RAID

B4,52,259 Allah’s Apostle sent us on a mission and said, “If you find so-and-so and so-and-so, burn both of them with fire.”

When we intended to depart, Allah’s Apostle said, “I have ordered you to burn so-and-so and so-and-so, and it is none but Allah Who punishes with fire, so, if you find them, just kill them.”

I980 The same commander, Zayd, was attacked by a tribe and, besides losing the fight, was personally wounded. While healing from his wounds, he swore not to have sex until he had avenged his pride. So when he was healed he set out to settle the score. This time he was more successful and triumphed over the enemy. One of the leader’s wives was an old woman; her legs were tied to two camels, and she was torn apart. Her daughter was taken back to Medina as a pleasure slave for one of Mo-hammed’s men, who in turn gave her to another man. They produced a son who grew up to become a leading legal scholar.

T1559 Another woman had the misfortune to be the fairest of the
Arabs. She became the slave of Salama, who brought her back to Medina. Moham-med said, “Salama, how excellent was the father who begot you! Give me the woman.” Salama replied, “Messenger of Allah, I have not yet stripped her clothing. She is yours.” Mohammed sent her to Mecca as a slave to trade for some captured Muslims.

ANOTHER KILLING OF JEWS

B4,52,176 Allah’s Apostle said, “Muslims will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will betray them saying, ‘O Abdul-lah [slave of Allah]! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.’ ”

I981 One of the Jews of Khaybar was trying to work with another Arab tribe to re-sist the jihad of Islam. Word got back to Mohammed. This was before Khaybar was conquered by Mohammed, and it took some strategy to kill the man. Mohammed sent an agent with several other Muslims who went to the Jew as friends. They treated him well and said Mohammed wished to give him an appointment and honor him.

I981 The Muslims and a company of Jews left for Medina but, about six miles out-side Khaybar, the Jew they were trying to assassinate got suspicious and started to turn back. One of the Arabs rushed him with a sword and cut off his leg. The Jew re-turned the blow with a stick he had in his hand and wounded the attacker in the head. The other Muslims fell upon the other Jews and killed them, except for one who managed to escape.

I981 When they got back to Mohammed, he spit on the head wound and the wound did not fester or cause any pain.

ANOTHER ENEMY OF ALLAH KILLED

I982 Another Arab leader was trying to get men together to resist the onslaught of Mohammed. So Mohammed chose one of his best men to assassinate him. The as-sassin asked Mohammed how he would recognize the leader. Mohammed said, “He looks like Satan. When you see him you will shudder.”

I982 The assassin put his sword on and headed to the town where the leader was supposed to be. He came upon a man with several women. He felt a shudder and ad-vanced toward the man while repeating prayers. The leader asked him who he was. The assassin said, “An Arab who has heard of you and the gathering of force to op-pose Mohammed.” The leader said he was indeed the man. The assassin walked with him a short distance and then killed him with his sword and fled with the women.

I982 The assassin returned to Mohammed. Mohammed looked at him and said, “The aim is accomplished.” The assassin replied, “I have killed him, O Apostle.” He replied, “You are right.” Then Mohammed took him into the house and gave him a stick and told him to keep it by him. When the assassin went into Medina, people asked him about the stick but he didn’t know what it meant. So he went back to Mo-hammed and asked about the meaning of the stick. Mohammed told him, “It is a sign between you and me on the day of resurrection. There are a few men who will be car-rying sticks then.”

I982 So the assassin fastened it to his sword and carried it every day. When he was buried, it was put into the grave with him.

THE RAID OF THE DOWRY

I989 A Muslim agreed to marry a woman and pay a high dowry price. He went to Mohammed for help with the dowry and told him the price. Mohammed said, “If you could just pick up money from the ground you could not have offered a higher price.”

I990 A few days later there was news of a man who was daring to oppose Moham-med. The man was about a day’s ride away. So the husband-to-be was put in charge of a small raiding party to see about the man and the degree of his threat. Moham-med gave them a very old and weak camel and the men set off.

I990 They arrived at the village of the suspected Arab at about sunset. The bride-groom went down to one end of the village, and his men went to the other. When the men heard, “Allah Akbar,” they were to charge.

I990 A shepherd from the village had gone out earlier and not returned, so the vil-lagers became worried. The chief took his sword and went out to look for the shep-herd. His companions begged him not to go out alone, but he was not afraid and went out.

I990 When the chief came upon him, the Muslim shot him through the heart with an arrow and he died without a word. The Muslim cut off his head and charged into the camp yelling, “Allah Akbar,” and his soldiers did the same. Everyone in the camp fled. The Muslims drove off the entire herd of camels and sheep. When the leader took the livestock and the head back to Mohammed, he was given thirteen camels. The price of the camels paid the dowry and he was married.

T1609 There were four women captured as slaves, and one was very beautiful. When Mohammed heard about her he said, “Give her to me.” He then gave her to a jihadist as a favor.

ORDERS FOR A RAID

I992 Abdullah was to be a leader of a raid and presented himself for orders. He was wearing a black turban, and Mohammed had him take it off and showed him how to wear it so that a small amount of the cloth hung down in the back. Mohammed said, “That is neater and better.” He then gave Abdullah the banner for the troops and said, “Take the banner. Fight everyone in the way of Allah (jihad) and kill those who disbelieve in Allah. Do not cheat about the spoils of war. Do not mutilate or kill chil-dren. This is Allah’s law and my practice.”

THE DEATH OF A POETESS

I996 There was a poetess who wrote a poem against Islam. Mohammed said, “Who will rid me of Marwan’s daughter?” One of his followers heard him and on that very night he went to the woman’s home to kill her.

M239 The assassin, a blind man, was able to do the work in the dark as the woman slept. Her babe lay on her breast while her other children slept in the room. The stealthy assassin removed the child and drove the knife into her with such force that he pinned her to the bed.

I996 In the morning he went to Mohammed and told him. Mohammed said, “You have helped Allah and his apostle.” When asked about the consequences, Mohammed said, “Two goats won’t butt their heads together over this.”

M239 Mohammed turned to the people in the mosque and said, “If you wish to see a man who has assisted Allah and his prophet, look here.” Omar cried, “What, the blind Omeir!” “No,” said Mohammed, “call him Omeir the Seeing.”

I996 The mother, Marwan, had five sons and the assassin went to the sons and said, “I killed Bint Marwan, O sons. Withstand me if you can; don’t keep me waiting.” Is-lam became powerful that day, and many became Muslims when they saw the power of Islam.

MOHAMMED’S DEATH

I1000 One night Aisha complained of a headache, but Mohammed also had a head-ache and he said, “No, Aisha, O my head. Would it distress you if you were to die before me so that I might wrap you in your shroud and pray over you?” Aisha said, “I think that, if you did that, after you returned to the house you would simply spend the night with one of your other wives.” But the pain became worse and he took his final illness in the house of Aisha.

I1006 Mohammed was weakened and in a great deal of pain. Later he died with his head in Aisha’s lap.

T1834 His final words were, “There should not be two religions in Arabia” ( i.e., no Jews, no Christians).

Mohammed had established the ideal Islamic pattern of religious tolerance. Islam was to be dominant. All other religions had to submit to Islam.

T1831 Mohammed was buried beneath his bed. The bed was removed and a grave was dug where the bed had stood.

I1017 Abu Bakr was elected caliph to rule over Islam after Mohammed’s death.
This marks the end of Ishaq’s Sirat Rasul Allah, translated by A. Guillaume as The Life of Mohammed.

http://www.politicalislam.com/mohammeds-last-year/

 

"For whatever the actual barbarity of any of the Biblical verses he quotes may be, the unpleasant fact remains that it is not Jews and Christians, but Muslims, who today are applying teachings that render normative “bizarre practices.” Judaism and Christianity have developed interpretative traditions that mitigate the literal understanding of such material, while Islam has not – and no religious reform has ever succeeded when the reformers simply ignored uncomfortable material..."

http://www.politicalislam.com/the-fictional-mohammed/

 

Mohammed left four very close friends and students, the “rightly guided” caliphs.

No men were as intimate with Mohammed and his teachings as these men.

They carried his teaching forward into history where their actions are recorded.

Abu Bakr killed thousands of Muslims who wanted to leave Islam, apostates.

Umar brought jihad to the kafir world and killed, raped, stole and tortured the Christians, Jews and Zoroastrians of the Middle East .

Uthman was assassinated and Ali died in an Islamic civil war. Any coach will tell you-you play like you train.

The rightly guided caliphs practiced what they were taught by the master-jihad and kafir hatred.

These men lived their lives just as Mohammed taught them. The teachings are portrayed in the Sira and Hadith.

They did what we would expect. Now, if Mohammed was a wonderful man, why did his best students annihilate the kafir civilization?

We do not have to speculate about the “real” Mohammed, he is found in the Sira and Hadith. History proves this.

http://www.politicalislam.com/the-fictional-mohammed/

 

Muslims who engage in jihad can find the legitimacy to do so in the Quran. Christians who engage in any violence are betraying Christianity”s teachings and can find no legitimacy to do what they do in the New Testament.

http://www.politicalislam.com/the-fictional-mohammed/

 

I cannot help but notice that no Muslim can discuss Islam without criticizing Christianity.

The reason for this is found in the “complete, perfect and detailed” Koran.

The Koran is vicious about all other religions. Due to its dualism, it has a good word in the beginning about the Jews and Christians, but in the end, the dualism prevails and the Koran”s second view is brutal.

It demands that it, and it alone, determines the truth of all other religions.

But the Koran does not stop with religious criticism, but it always includes political persecution of other religions.

The “complete, perfect and detailed” Koran also dictates that all other religions must politically submit in this world.

Islam is not just about religion, but politics. The Koran is a political text that contains only negative, pejorative, hurtful, insulting words for the kafir.

The “complete, perfect and detailed” Koran of Medina contains more Jew hatred than Hitler”s Mein Kamph. A detailed statistical analysis of Mein Kamph shows that 6.8% of the paragraphs are Jew hatred. The same analysis of the Koran written in Medina shows that 10.6% of the material is about Jew hatred.

To conclude, like Mr. Spencer, I note that Mr. Yuksel has called me to Islam.

Let me use this example to show the dualism of Islam. This “call” has two meanings. The first meaning is that Mr. Yuksel has an actual concern for my well being and does not want me to be one of the citizens of Hell who is being mocked by the Muslims in Paradise as I burn with my shirt of fire and drink my molten brass. I like that interpretation.

But there is a second meaning to the call. When Mohammed attacked the Jews of Khaybar (an event referred to in the Medinan Koran) he first called them to Islam. When they rejected this call they were attacked, crushed and made dhimmis. It was in this vein that bin Laden called America to Islam before he attacked on September 11, 2001 .

So the call to Islam can be from care and concern or it can be a prelude to death by jihad. Such is the dualistic nature of political Islam and the Koran.

This makes me very sad. I wish that I could believe that Islam can be reformed and that Muslims could be convinced to stop imitating the jihadist Mohammed, obeying the Medinan Koran and killing kafirs.

Look at the results. Mao was responsible for the deaths of 77,000,000 people,

Stalin killed about 62,000,000

and Hitler was responsible for the deaths of 21,000,000.

And for the last 1400 years those who imitate Mohammed and follow the Koran of Medina, have killed over 270,000,000 kafirs.

If you could bring about a reform that would negate this effect, you and your work would be the greatest blessing to humanity in written history.

http://www.politicalislam.com/the-fictional-mohammed/

 

I guess where you and I disagree here is on the bolded text. This is just my opinion and I have not a shred of evidence to back it, but I argue that ISIS no more represents Islam than Jimmy Jones or David Koresh represent Christianity. There are extremes in many groups... and although their actions can and often do reflect badly upon the whole... I still maintain that they do not represent the whole. I am a liberal and I gotta tell you I place a lot of distance between me the the extreme left as their blind bias does not represent me as a liberal or liberalism as a whole. I would hope that moderate conservatives would argue the same of the extreme in their ranks.

I would rather not speculate as I find speculation to not be synonymous with fact.

 

Muslim conquest is part of the Koran. What ISIS is doing is not counter to Islamic teachings. Conquest of the non Muslim (basically making others Muslim) and slavery are part of the later Koran.

I don't know why you think it is speculation when you can easily find Muslim women defending ISIS.

 

Our problem is TERRORISM, NOT ISLAM. The major fact none of you Islamophobes seem to get is that the vast, VAST majority of Muslims are more victims of the terrorists than WE are. Moderate Muslims could, indeed, should and in fact MUST be the major factor in our fight against terrorism if we are ever to succeed in defeating it, yet all of you CONTINUE TO DO EVERYTHING YOU CAN TO DRIVE EVERY MUSLIM THAT EXISTS INTO THE TERRORIST CAMP.

The Muslim terrorists are at most , a few thousand highly insane and very evil people who JUST HAPPEN TO BE MUSLIM TOO. The actual relation between them and Islam is almost entirely irrelevant to the matter at hand. What they do and stand for is in no way related to modern Islam.

Yet you conservatives insist on adopting solutions requiring that we view ALL 1.5 Billion Muslims in the world as our enemies. In view of this I wonder how anyone can doubt that conservatives see hatred and bigotry as their main political tools, or how anyone can ascribe to their tenets being based, as they are, on absurd premises and requiring us to do totally impossible things..

 

Does not mean all take it literally.

 

Does this in your opinion represent Islam as a whole?

"Why else would you find women that defend oppression of women according to our Western ideology?"

IMO "why else" invites one to speculate.

 

They are the Muslims ISIS is targeting.

And if ISIS came to the USA these shirkers would face the choice.

Become a 'REAL' Muslim or stand up for their modernist interpretation.

Shirkers.

Jahiliyyah.

Hypocrites.

Munafiqs.

[video=youtube;Y3lQSxNdr3c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3lQSxNdr3c[/video]

 

Of course not.

But at a time like this we can't afford to take chances on ANY Muslims who might be jihadists in their hearts or who could be activated when jihad arrives at their door.

 

You can no longer remain uncommitted.

One side or the other and if you aren't sufficiently one, to the satisfaction of the zealots on either side, you are in danger of being, 'squished like grape.'

Obama told us which side he is on.

In his book he (or Bill Ayers) wrote that if the winds turned ugly he would stand with the Muslims.

And they have and he has.

 

Is a Nice Muslim a Good Muslim?

by Bill Warner | posted in: Newsletter | 20

After a murderous jihad at Fort Hood or the Christmas day airplane bombing attempt, did you hear: “Of course, not all Muslims are bad?” That brings up the question of how do you even tell if a Muslim is bad? Or good?

First off, what is a Muslim? A Muslim is a person who follows the doctrine of Islam. When that same person, does something that does not follow the doctrine of Islam, they are not a Muslim. The common idea is that anyone who says that they are a Muslim has their every action and word dictated by Islam.

Put another way, every Muslim is seen as perfect follower of Islam at all times and circumstances. However, the truth is that a “Muslim” is not always a Muslim. When they do not follow Islamic doctrine, they are no longer a Muslim, but are a kafir (non-Muslim).

Now, how do we know if a Muslim is good or bad? If they are following the Koran and the Sunna (the perfect example of Mohammed), they are a good Muslim. If they don’t follow the doctrine, then they are not a Muslim.

That means that from the stand point of Islam there is no such thing as a good or bad Muslim. You either are a Muslim or you are not. When anyone follows the Koran and the Sunna, they are Muslim. When anyone does not follow the doctrine of Islam then they are a kafir.

This means that a person called a Muslim has two modes of being-Muslim and kafir, or kafir-Muslim. The same person can be a Muslim in one moment and a kafir in the next.

What do kafirs mean by a good Muslim? Simple, the same way we judge all other people as good and bad-the Golden Rule. Do they follow the Golden Rule when they are with us? If so, then they are a good person.

Since the Koran and the Sunna do not have the Golden Rule, how are Muslims to treat us? Islamic doctrine lays out an alternative to the Golden Rule. Those who do not believe Mohammed are kafirs, and kafirs are treated differently from Muslims.

Islamic doctrine says a great deal about the kafir. Most of the Koran is about kafirs, 61%, only 39% is about Muslims. About 20% of the Hadith is about kafirs and 98% of the Sira is about kafirs.

Mohammed was fixated on kafirs and annihilated every kafir by violence, exile or conversion. When Mohammed died, there was not a person alive in Arabia who would argue with him.

Mohammed’s actions are pure Islam; therefore, annihilating kafirs and kafir culture is pure Islam. A Muslim has to be, in some way, in some form of action, eliminating kafirs and their world. The action against kafirs is jihad.

There are four flavors of jihad and murder is only one.

Deception, conversation, articles and TV appearances can be jihad of speech and writing. There is always the option of giving to an Islamic charity, since one of the Koranic uses of charity is jihad.

Every Muslim believes that all nonbelievers are kafirs. The Koran says that kafirs may be hated, plotted against, deceived, murdered, raped, enslaved, mocked and tortured. All of those actions are Islam and perfect doctrine. When a person is being a good Muslim, they are following Islam and that means that you are a kafir.

Hate, deception, murder, mockery and torture are bad for kafirs, but good for Muslims.

Kafirs are pure other. Muslims treat other Muslims as brothers and sisters, but they can treat a kafir well or they can treat them as less than an animal. Islam has dualistic ethics, one set of rules for Muslims and another set of rules for kafirs.

Dualism is bad. When a Muslim practices dualism, they are bad.

There is no good in Islam for a kafir and therefore, there is no good in a Muslim for a kafir.

Does this mean that the Muslim at work is bad?

Yes, when they are following the doctrine of Islam.

Whenever they are not following Islam, that person can be as good as any other.

It is not about people, but about doctrine. It is the doctrine of Islam to be bad to kafirs. When anyone is practicing Islam around a kafir they must be bad, since Mohammed was never good to kafirs.

Wait! What about the nice, pious Muslim at work? He is good, isn’t he?

Is he nice because of the Golden Rule or is he practicing the Sunna of the charming Mohammed we find in the early Meccan days?

Mohammed could be very polite with kafirs, however, if charm did not work, then other methods were used. Islam is a process of increasing force that can start out pleasantly.

We are left with an ethical confusion around any Muslim. They can seem pleasant, but nothing changes the fact that they see Mohammed as the perfect person to imitate.

Nothing changes the fact that we are kafirs. Kafir is the worst word in the human language.

Whom are we to believe-the Muslim at work or Mohammed? Every Muslim wants to imitate Mohammed; every Muslim is a Mohammedan.

The problem is that Mohammed annihilated every kafir he ever met. It was a process. The process started out nice and when nice did not work, it ended in annihilation of the kafir. In Islam, nice is the beginning of bad for the kafir.

So how do you tell if a nice Muslim is good or bad? From the kafir point-of-view, there is only the fact that a Muslim is following Mohammed’s example.

And that is bad, very bad.

Bill Warner
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I could just give up and say to you, as was said to John Adams during the debates on the US Constitution, "If you say so, Mr." Ulynov", especially since you are now shouting at me, but the topic is too important to abandon.

I do realize that the powers that be behind FOX news and elsewhere are salivating at the idea of another profitable war but do not want to antagonize their oil sources, but I am more interested in getting at the core of things than placating as Chamberlain did, particularly since his placating and passive actions helped to trigger a world war.

I also understand that you are responding to everyone in this thread that is expressing concerns similar to my own.

However, if one examines the history of Jihad as presented in this thread the conclusions seem justified that the Muslim faith is fashioned in such a manner that it will continue to trigger Jihad indefinitely no matter how small a minority goes into it that deeply. Your fears that exploring this concern will simply drive moderate Muslims to become active Jihadists is itself telling. That is the method of conquest that seems to be used--threats of further action if another culture does not capitulate.

Moderate Muslims are under the above-mentioned threats even more than non-Muslims; the penalties for them are even more severe if they do not comply. The belief system seems to present a real sand trap.

All the more reason not to allow it more of a foothold in the US than it has already attained.

As for the idea that we are helpless without the assistance of moderate Muslims, that is hooey. Of course their help is desirable, and should be appreciated much more than is generally understood, given what a nightmare they are themselves fleeing from as a result of their own religion. However, we are not any more required to admit into our borders the elements from which terrorism arises than we were to admit in ebola. There are ways and means to protect ourselves from terrorism that would not include the assistance of Muslims, although it would be to their cost if we had to use them. Those who chose to move here need to refresh their family histories as to why they made that choice, and make it clear to their progeny.

Operating from fear is never a good idea, and certainly not when dealing with a Jihadist mentality.

People willing to explore this concern are not the "Islamaphobes"--if anyone is, it would be people like you, who are too afraid to discuss it for fear of causing "offense".

Don't underestimate our Muslim allies so--they understand the problem much better than you do already; they have had to live with it growing up in their own societies and are well aware of their own Achilles' heel.

Don't you see how skillfully the US is being steered into providing "leadership" in situations over there? Then, later, the US will be "to blame" and be further targeted. If a relatively new group like ISIS can operate as skillfully as it has, do you really believe the Mideast is lacking in the ability to handle its own affairs? You are dealing with ancient cultures that were dealing with politics and warfare centuries before the US existed. We are being used as cats' paws in some ancient game of their invention.

 

If t.he Crusades were defensive of Christians then why did the Crusaders kill so many Christians. For the most part the Crusades were about gaining glory in battle, pillaging, raping and claiming they are doing Gods work. Interesting that someone would their homework on Islamic Jihad and then know so little about the Crusades.

 

I try to keep an open mind so I can continually fill it with new stuff.

I do recall reading (at CSPI) that many Christians made deals with Mohammed and became Dhimmis.

Even as recently as last month (IIRC) Sen. Ted Cruz was addressing a group of M.E. Christians who refused to 'stand' with Israel and so he told them amid their boos and catcalls that if they wouldn't stand with Israel that he wouldn't stand with them.

And he walked off the stage.

Gutsy. Principled. Leadership.

Maybe those Christians he spoke to were the same type of Christians you refer to.

I will post it if I find the answer,

 

Look, this whole thing doesn't have tinkly dam to with Islam's tenets nor Christianity's precepts. Islam no more says you should burn POW's alive than Christianity says you should deport/imprison/kill millions of innocent people.

This whole fracas is about one thing, My imaginary friend in the sky has a bigger dick than your imaginary friend in the sky, and I don't really even believe in my imaginary friend and neither do you, but....his dick is still bigger.

Many humans are just stupid and mean. Many are not, but they don't usually cause problems.

 

Nazi, Nazi, Nazi, Nazi, Godwin be damned, it's not applicable when you're ADDRESSING a Nazi, and if you, and your erstwhile mentor especially, are not followers of Nazi doctrines, then the ideology never existed. The ONLY difference is that it's not Jews you're after, but Muslims. Otherwise EVERYTHING you said in this post is flat out from the Nuremberg Handbooks, and as valid. Your "history" of Jihad is as valid as the Nazi"s doctrine of "blood guilt". You obviously don't, properly, even understand what Jihad really IS, let alone how it affects the Muslim.

Do you know that Islam has NO priesthood? They take pride in this, that no man stands between the Muslim and his God. Imam and Mullah means "teacher" not priest, and he has NO actual prescribed authority over the Muslims. They are guides and often very respected, even venerated, but in the end the Muslim follows his own and individual internal dictates. None commands his obedience, either men or precepts, all this talk of unbreakable commands from either man or book is more antithetical to Islam than anything else you have mentioned

To say that you should enlist the aid of the people whose culture, area and history your enemy shares is simple common sense, not fear, but then I forget you are a conservative, braggadocio and beating your chest, however ineffectually, takes precedence over anything, even the benefit of the country you profess to love so.

I have to agree with you that we should leave the Middle East alone. We should have done that already. We've broken it, however, and we are obligated to do some repair, but yes, we should leave as quickly as we can hand the area over to those you call "our muslim allies"

Immigration, to me, is irrelevant. The muslim who wishes to come to the USA in the first place is not a terrorist and never will be, (unless he is already in that tiny minority of INTERNATIONAL terrorists, and we have as many of them who are native born Americans as Iraqi/Syrians etc.) He is someone who wishes to come here because his own country, and culture, lacks something he requires and can only find here. He is exactly the kind of person we want and need, both to fight terrorism and ensure our ongoing prosperity.

 

Palestinian Christians were the first to organize against the flood of European Jews in 1920. Their reasons why make a great deal of sense..

 

One of the many things he has done that show that he is not Presidential material and if by some strange twist of reality he got the GOP nomination the Libs would destroy him by bringing up his many tricks, heck the shutting down of the government would be all I would take.

 

Thank you for the additional information regarding Islam. Despite your belief that some of us are Nazis, my comments arise simply from a desire to not see negative changes in the US. This particular topic is one I have joined these forums to discuss so I could learn more, and my mind is open.

I do have to say, though, that the case so far made in this thread regarding the nature of Jihad as a way of spreading political control has been very convincing to me. If you have useful links or other information to contravene the points made in this thread regarding the implications for the present time of Muslim beliefs regarding Jihad it would be useful if you would share those. Personal attacks are not very convincing, especially regarding this particular topic, as misleading and attacking are apparently themselves characteristics of Jihad.

I apologize if what we are discussing is truly as upsetting and disturbing to you as your posts seem to indicate, but your labeling and negative characterizations of the discussion are not helpful in making a fair assessment of the topic. It interests me that the most solid information presented so far in this thread tends to confirm my own concerns regarding the eventual influence of a growing Muslim population on the life of a country.

 

Don't make too much of "taqiyya".. Few Westerners understand it ..

The history of the spread of Islam was not usually by stealth or warfare.. Much of it was thru pre-existing trade relations and slow Arabization. The Arabs were given to learning quickly from other cultures and improving on their technologies and such.

You won't get that in a sound bite or on wiki, but its true if you are interested.

 

LOL, look up the Battle of Tours. You are so blinded by your defense of Islam that you are blind to history.

http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/imperialism/notes/tours.html

 

Of course I am interested.

I am here to learn things.

Thank you.