Liberals: What Do You Think the Government Should Do to Help Blacks?

I never said "everyone" has it.

 

Statistical analysis does not impose quotas but instead provides parameters that can be used for evaluation and judgement.

Let me provide an example. A company has 100 employees and statistically they should have about 15 black employees but they have none. The fact they have none can be explained two different ways. The first is that the company is intentionally avoiding hiring blacks (i.e. discriminating) in it's recruiting and/or hiring practices or the company is actively working to recruit blacks but hasn't received applications from qualified blacks and therefore hasn't hired any. If the company can establish that it's been actively attempting to secure qualified black labor through it's recruiting and/or employment practices then it's not guilty of discrimination against blacks. If the company is making no effort at all to hire blacks then that's a form of employment discrimination.

There are no quota requirements.

 

No what I agree on is there are poor people of every race in America and the right thing to do is figure out how to help them all independant of their race.

Now if what you are proposing is that we only allow rich people to immigrate regardless of race that might be an interesting if inhumane immgration policy.

 

Hmmmmm.

Probably true because I'd be surprised if more than 1/1000 are actually supporting themselves exclusively by sales at flea markets.

 

Federally funded (as opposed to local and state funded) education K-12.

Establishment of a African American community job corps to improve primarily black communities. An opportunity for young black men to learn work skills and improve the lives of other black Americans.

Federally funded black community centers with free legal and family/life counseling.

It would be expensive to start, but if properly executed could become mostly self supportive in time.

 

Not that hard. First ensure that all jobs provide a "living wage" which ensures that no working households are living in poverty. Next provide legislation that increases the legal foundation for enforcement of the Civil Rights Act and the Equal Pay Act from the 1960's.

 

Not at all. I have nothing against poor people, but am against low IQ, crime prone ethnoracial groups coming to this country, which is why Hispanics shouldn't be allowed to pour into the US.

 

Other than operating under an assumption, what evidence do you have Northeast Asians, northern Europeans, and west African blacks have equal cognitive ability?

 

An interesting proposition considering the fact that education is a responsibility of the state and has been a state constitutional requirement in the several states where I've lived. The only reason the federal government started providing funding for education to the states is because the state governments were failing to provide the funding their state Constitution required. If state governments complied with their own state Constitutions there would be no necessity for federal funding of education at all. Wouldn't it make more sense to require the state government to comply with their state Constitutions?

Without a federal minimum "living wage" law none of this does any real good because all we do is create more working poverty in the United States. The only way to eliminate working poverty in America is to have a mandatory "living wage" that's ensures against any workers living in poverty.

The question is always "can we afford a living wage" and we know we can. The economic cost of a living wage is estimated to be about $4 trillion a year and we produce roughly four-time that much each or slightly more than $16 trillion each year. That leaves about $12 trillion to be split by employees in higher paying jobs and the owners of enterprise and $12 trillion is more than enough for that purpose.

 

The reason I pointed to a need for federally funded public education is the way states fund their schools. I live in a good area, our community supports local taxation to fund our public school system and our community is strongly interested in the process of education.

Poorer areas though depend entirely on state funds which are always insufficient. Local taxes are seldom supported and make a much smaller financial impact in any case. Moreover poorer communities do not have as strong an interest or grounding in the educational process. What most poor black communities are left with is a bare minimum and a community that feels entirely divorced from the educational process. Federal funding would open the door to an entirely different process of public education for these neglected areas.

I am perfectly okay with a higher, (or living), min wage. But I think an energized and capable workforce is absolutely necessary for economic growth.

 

Let's examine this statement piece by piece,

How intelligent is if for a person to use IQ test scores as a measurement when the APA specifically establishes that IQ tests are a very limited measurement of human intelligence that are only applicable specific to the attributes they measure and the test scores are highly influenced by numerous external factors unrelated to the actual test? I would conclude that using an IQ test score to measure the actual intelligence of a person is a pretty stupid criteria.

In addressing crime statistics we also know a little bit about the crime rates of immigrants to the United States.

While the demographics of the "immigrants" is undefined we know that the vast majority of immigrants fall into the "non-WASP" group, and that the White Supremacists/White Nationalists refer to any group other than "WASP's as being "ethnoracial groups" as a racist slur, but what we also know is that immigrants are far less crime prone based upon crime statistics than native born Americans.

So in addressing crime in general the people we have the least to be concerned with are the foreign born immigrants which includes the Mexicans that the White Supremacists/White Nationalists seem to hate the most.

On a final note the disparaging reference to the "ethnoracial groups" reflects a complete rejection by the White Supremacists/White Nationalists of both the political ideology upon which America was founded which states "all men (people) are created equal" and the national motto of the United States that has existed since the nation was founded of "E Pluribus Unum" (from many, one) where people of all races, religions, ethnic backgrounds, and any other criteria we can think of come together as one people based upon our political ideology.

We won't even go into the fact that James Madison, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and many of the other founders of the United States believed that any restriction upon the right of people to freely immigrate to the United States for peaceful purposes was a violation of the fundamental Right of Liberty of the person and that the only reason we have immigration restrictions today was for the purpose of maintaining White Supremacy (racism) in our social, economic, and political institutions. Our first "immigration law" was the Chinese Exclusion Act and even the title itself established that it was a racist law at the time. All of our "immigration" laws that restrict immigration since then have been based upon racism.

 

You mean an example of affirmative action.

http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=473903&p=1066610928#post1066610928

You said:

“Blacks are still discriminated against in employment, still discriminated against in compensation, and still discriminated against in professional advancement, still discriminated against in society, and all of these negatively effect the motivation that's related to the IQ tests that seek to measure the related intelligence.”

I responded:

“Reminds me of the white guy that walked off the plane and stood next to it leaning up against a pole supporting the deck behind the nose sections, who refused to work. Therefore, the supervisor told him to go back to work or he would be fired, the union steward came down, and a union suit told him that if he did not go back to work he would be fired. He slowly went back to work, slowly, very slowly. Nobody said anything to the black who was standing there the whole time leaning against the other support.

Yep, your premise is confirmed by scientific method.”

I left out that the first supervisor of the black wanted to fire him, for NEVER working, and was told the black could not be fired. The supervisor in the above incident with the white was threatened with death when he sometime later told the black to get to work; the black got five days off, and was not fired, nor required to ever work.

I am certain the white, who was mimicking a black in real time, has less motivation from the negative effects of discrimination too.

The white above must have asked a question, “Does being systematically discriminated against negatively affect motivation?” Then he constructed a hypothesis, he tested with experiment, and concluded that being discriminated against in employment, discriminated against in compensation, discriminated against in professional advancement, and discriminated against in society, does negatively affect motivation.

 

So all a racist employer has to do is actively recruit black employees, but just not hire any.

 

Do you think millions of black people are making a profit by institutional racism directed at them? The idea that racism has bred a cottage industry keeping it alive is nothing more than a way of telling Jesse Jackson to shut up and go home because we white people are sick of hearing about it. As for Black Studies, I am fine with it, we are taught white studies from day one, we call it the History of Western Civilization.

 

That is not what was established. If a qualified black applicant applies then the employer must hire them based upon their qualifications without any preferential treatment based upon a racial criteria. If the employer uses a racial criteria (e.g. they're black) to deny a qualified applicant the job then it's still racial discrimination.

We can note that racists are always looking for loopholes in the law so that they can racially discriminate which is why we better laws that establish a foundation for discrimination lawsuits. They already know enough to not provide a "smoking gun" where they would actually write down that the applicant was denied employment based upon race so we have to address other means for making determinations and judgements on racial discrimination in employment practices because it remains very widespread in the United States today.

 

Actually the truth is that many white people, especially those that are the leaders of the Republican Party, are making a lot of money off of racism in American by denying it exists and creating more racial oppression with their legislative agenda.

One thing we know is that "Black Studies" are fundamentally factual while the "History of Western Civilization" is a mixed bag of fact and fiction.

 

But you started out saying that this was very hard to establish, which is why you suggested statistical tests.

And what are those other means, if not quotas?

 

The family breakdown in black families is far more than any other. To destroy the family, is to destroy the child. Which in turn, keeps the cycle. It is this the black family must defeat, or it's a lost cause in any other way/help. How can one be helped, if they refuse to help themselves?

 

The creature harms its offspring for the benefit of hostile organisms, and then liberal logic calls it “affirmative action”; when the creature is in proximity to hostile organisms, in a liberal environment, it causes the evolution of an inferiority complex, which actively seeks the importation of more hostile organisms into the environment; a liberal environment is self-destructive for the creature.

Since a liberal environment is self-destructive for the creature, therefore, it must deny the existence of racism and create more racism, consequently, increased racism reduces the beneficial environment of creature.

 

Once again, I didn't mention intelligence in my post. You can put your strawman away.

The crime rates of Hispanics born in the US is far higher than the white average, which is a far more relevant statistic.

The founding fathers wanted a white run nation and clearly didn't include non-whites as created equal with whites.

 

Well, I just put my Zinn book in my bag for the long flight today. People History should be fascinating.

 

So the reference to IQ had nothing to do with intelligence of the person? Must be an irrelevant criteria then that has no meaning.

So your concern is with US citizens and has nothing to do with immigration. Got it. Of course one of the greatest problems for black and Hispanic citizens of the United States is the anti-black and anti-Hispanic political agenda of the Republican Party. Arguably there could be a "cause and effect" relationship between the anti-black/anti-Hispanic Republican Party agenda and the crime rates in black and Hispanic neighborhoods. Ever consider the existence of that relationship?

Not according to Jefferson, Madison or the other progressive liberals that were primarily responsible for the creation of the nation. For example even though they inherited slaves they opposed slavery and also realized that due to the oppression of blacks it would be a long time before the effects of slavery could be overcome by the blacks in America. It was the "conservatives" that embraced slavery and white supremacy and they did have the political power to prevent the very progressive liberal national ideology that America was founded upon from being realized. They're still fighting the very progressive liberal political ideology that was enumerated by those like Jefferson, Madison and even Thomas Paine that's known as the Father of the American Revolution based upon his booklet Common Sense. That's what "conservatives" do. The fight progress that would change the "traditional" social, economic, and political institutions that were based upon White (WASP) Male Supremacy when America was occupied by WASP Europeans. The conservatives have managed to retain that White (WASP) Male Supremacy by oppression of all non-WASP's throughout American history.

That's exactly what the political agenda of the Republican Party is today based upon the adoption of social conservatism that invaded the party in the 1980's. During the 1950's, under the Eisenhower administration, the Republican Party was a party of fiscal conservatism/social liberalism and the Southern Democrats (and Southern Republicans) were the social conservatives (White Supremacists). Northern social liberal Republicans and Northern social liberal Democrats were solely responsible for the civil rights legislation of the 1960's Civil Rights Movement. Today there are virtually no social liberals left in the Republican Party and virtually no social conservatives left in the Democratic Party. White Supremacy changed political parties and we know that it happened starting in the 1980's. Today Republicans oppose virtually all of the Civil Rights laws from the 1960's. Republicans today oppose the Civil Rights Act, they oppose the Equal Pay Act, and they oppose the Voting Rights Act and then some seem to wonder why blacks and Hispanics don't support the Republican agenda

 

I think education could be subsidized up to a specified floor, but local communities should have some control over how they educate their kids. This way, a basic level of quality is ensured, and people get to retain some autonomy over their education systems. The federal government is utterly incompetent in this area and will make the education system even worse if they interfere too much.

Also, why shouldn't other poor people qualify for these types of programs? I'm not opposed to measures aimed at helping others but, as someone who came from a pretty bad situation myself, I think it is pretty (*)(*)(*)(*)ty to exclude other impoverished groups.

 

The reference to IQ releates to IQ's predictive ability for life achievement milestones. IQ is therefore very relevant in this debate as higher IQ whites and Northeast Asians outperform lower IQ Hispanics and blacks.

Do you have any evidence that 'racism' or any environmental variable is responsible for the low IQ of Hispanics and blacks?

Perhaps you can explain how it is Northeast Asians manage to have a higher IQ than whites?

I didn't pursue your line of argument regarding Hispanic immigrant criminality because no statistics were given, but Hispanic immigrant welfare usage is amongst the highest for any immigrant group, and far higher than native white usage.

How is the US benefitting from low IQ Hispanic communities turning our cities into landfills resembling their native countries?

 

WHy just liberals? I mean would it not be smart for ANY president no matter what party he or she is from to go straight into the poorer areas and build them up? Sounds logical to me considering we take our weakest link and make it stronger. If we improve the quality of life in any poor area the neighboring areas around it will also begin to improve more.

I wish we had a president that would attack what is really important i.e.education, jobs, crime and truly improve the quality of life for all and we will all benefit. Then from there we could use the same tactics for our neighbors down south and work towards becoming an extremely strong entity. Could you imagine the possibilities if North, Central and SOuth America improved their quality of life?

The only thing is, from the American hoods and those that share the land with us, they are going to have to truly want to help themselves because we can't make it better for them on our own. Has to be a 2 way street.