Liberals: What Do You Think the Government Should Do to Help Blacks?

I thought we were trying to come up with ways for the government to help blacks. If you're stipulating now that they can only be helped in ways that everyone is helped you may need to rename the thread.

As far as education goes I think it would be a huge boon to poor black communities to shed the state and local funded educational system. Someone with a fresh mind needs to come in and organize something new from the ground up. Really poor black communities tend to deal with local authorities in a adversarial way. They do not trust them or believe they have their best interest at heart and tend to look for ways to game the system. Because thats the way things have always worked. Most of them have never witnessed a functioning school system to know how to judge one or to know what should be expected. How are they going to control their educational system when they cannot properly fund it or understand how it should work?

The federal government usually does things poorly on a local level because they operate with a backseat driver mentality. When they are in the drivers seat things usually work much better. Thats why I do not think this should be a cooperative educational effort between the federal government and states.

 

The statistic is "astonishing" regarding Mexican incarceration because it does not factor in the number of Mexican criminals released by ICE and told to go back to Mexico instead of incarcerating them.

 

I've been in plenty of black schools where good education is present and when many black kids are learning well.

What we're really talking about here is the black underclass, which is proportionally larger than that of any other racial group because the proportion of low-IQ people in American blacks tends to be a larger percentage than in other racial groups.

Reformers have turned the American educational system inside out trying to turn sows' ears into silk purses. It can't be done.

People deserve the schools they get. Schools in the US are paid with local taxes. I and most other Americans will resist any further efforts to destroy localities and schools in the fruitless quest to artificially raise that segment of the black population which is unraisable.

 

Well... in order to get a tax cut you've got to pay taxes, right? I mean, this is almost like saying the right doesn't believe that the unemployed should get time off work.

 

your right, I should of said the working class

Unfortunately the right only believes in tax cuts for the rich, they don't care about the working class or the poor

 

Talk about flip flop.
In the space of 2 sentences you just contradict yourself.
Are black communities more vulnerable based on statistics or it based on prejudices?
Because one of those answers is cold hard facts and the other is you painting police departments with a broad brush of discrimination.

And in displaying your own bias of the situation, you ignore other significant facts relevant to the debate; such as Black people are more likely to kill cops than be killed by cops according to FBI data.
Worse still, another study shows that Cops are more reluctant to shoot Black people than white people.

Yet you still spout this racial prejudice BS.
No wonder we can't get anywhere with solving this problem... crime statistic deniers keep overlooking the facts and instead want to point to some boogeyman of race.

 

What ever can be done for all poor people. Not just blacks. Training, education, jobs. Incentive to improve.
Problems with blacks is the same as problems for most poor.
Although, there seems to be more issues being black and law enforcement. But how much is self inflicted, unknown.

 

Most racial groups in the US choose not to rub their faces in all the horrid experiences their ancestors had to face when they first came here and struggled to survive, and no one else has the bad taste to try to make them, either.

Everyone, even some of the elites, has come up hard. Survival is tough.

Parasitism is tougher. People try to get rid of parasites. No one wants something hanging on and sucking their life's blood.

 

As for any race, in the rich and comfortable western world poverty is a result of laziness. Every opportunity is available to break the poverty cycle, but many choose not to take them.

I know and have known far too many non-white people (including very black Africans ... since colour seems to be a thing in this thread) arrive in my white country with literally nothing. Yes, they did it hard for a few years. Some for many years, but they eventually left poverty behind - by not being lazy.

 

hey, I don't mind people amending their statements, so long as it isn't moving the goal-posts, and I think that's quite a fair amendment.

But didn't the Bush tax cuts knock 7.8million taxpayers, who were paying net income taxes before, to zero income tax liability? I mean, if the right only believes in tax cuts for the rich, why did millions of taxpayers get tax cuts such that they no longer had any income tax liability?

 

Except on St. Patrick's Day.....

 

You can throw all the money and services in the country at it and it won't work.
Only black Americans can fix it.

 

"Liberals: What Do You Think the Government Should Do to Help Blacks? "

oh I thought you said banks, I was gonna say make it illegal for them to gamble our money

 

How about black Americans are the most prosperous black population as a whole that exists anywhere or ever has?
Same for women, homosexuals, the disabled.
What has facilitated that? Why are Americans better at absolutely everything?

 

I'd say its pretty hard to judge a whole slot of peoples intelligence, and a better education never hurts.

In a general way though, color aside, I think the ability to work within a system and to believe in personal success is more integral to improvement than intelligence. I've worked with 'developmentally challenged' adults and the main difference between them and people that are self supportive is the way they view the world. They have a very hard time filtering between wants and needs and translate criticism as judgement. Most of the time this confusion is based on a history of poor personal relationships going back to childhood.

If you take people already coming out of a place that downplays cooperation and personal achievement. That distrust the system and see it as an adversary to exploit. Take people in that situation and tell them, through word or action, that they are stupid and deserve whatever they get... all you do is perpetuate existing problems.

 

National Treasure Sweepstakes blood bank:

“You have probably caught that Visa credit card commercial in which a wily wife hides her many shopping sprees under the bed and up in the attic, all out of sight from her clueless husband.
The punch line is that she could have won all that stuff she rung up on the plastic. But the reality behind such behavior is hardly a laughing matter.” (Rene a. Guzman, San Antonio Express-News Jan. 12, 2005 12:00 AM)

End of slavery:

“The Federal Reserve's rule told credit card companies that they no longer can consider household income when assessing the creditworthiness of an individual who applies for his or her own card. Under the rule, only an individual's own salary or other income -- rather than combined household income -- can be considered.”

Read more: http://www.creditcards.com/credit-c...cards-household-income-1282.php#ixzz3WiwAm9JK

Vampires supporting Negroid slavery:

“Opposition from CARD Act authors
U.S. Reps. Carolyn Maloney, D-NY, and Louise Slaughter, D-NY, both among the principal authors of the CARD Act, said the rule ‘goes beyond the intent’ of the law and ‘represents a serious risk for women in abusive domestic partnerships.’"
Read more: http://www.creditcards.com/credit-c...cards-household-income-1282.php#ixzz3Wivmh5r8

We could end slavery, by making it illegal for Democrat vampire Je…usurers to establish a National Treasure Sweepstakes blood bank in the attic to suck Negroid blood on the invite of one.

"The United States deplores any intentional effort to denigrate the religious beliefs of [Satanic Vampires that wish to suck Negroid blood, and gamble with their money]." (Clinton)

 

The problem is that the average person doesn't have the knowledge necessary to even know what the child should learn or the "science" of education (i.e the best means of education).

For example there are those in Kansas that wanted to teach "intelligent design" in a science class but "intelligent design" isn't based upon science. It's a philosophy based upon one religious belief creationism, when there are literally hundreds of different religious beliefs in different forms of creationism, and none of them are related to science. Ironically if all different forms of "creationism" that are religion based were studied in an academic manner the student's would reject them all because they cover the spectrum from unbelievable to outright absurd. The Christian "creationists" would never allow that to happen because they don't want "creationism" in general taught but instead want Christianity taught in our public schools.

A real argument that ignores a simple fact. Whites in poverty are not subject to economic oppression while blacks in poverty are subject to economic oppression. An example of this is that at the end of the Civil War there were about 4 million very poor blacks that were formerly slaves in the South and there were about an equal number of poor whites there as well. While to took time by WW II the whites had become middle income but the blacks remained in poverty because of racial economic oppression of the blacks.

Yes, people say that was then and this is now but the problem is that the economic oppression of blacks still exists but there's still no economic oppression of whites. Basically whites have a way out of poverty while blacks statistically don't.

 

The Bush rules against declaring BK on loans or credit cards with no collateral meant banks now loan too much to young teens and such... funny thing is. rates have not gone down like Bush told us they would if banks no longer had to worry about this BK risk

.

 

Try giving them the right to vote by requiring states to not only barely scrape by with current very weak laws, but also demanding an explanation when the percentage of registered black voters fall short of the percentage of black citizens of voting age.

Of course, this would require repealing Jim Crow voting laws like the ones disenfranchising ex-felons from voting.

 

Yes, but I never said that these ideas can't or shouldn't also help others.

The last thing this country needs is more identity politics and affirmative action. If you want to help the black community, I'm fine with this (within reason), but it should not exclude other disadvantaged groups simply because they aren't black.

I'm not sure I get this.

In my experience, people do not give a damn what level of government is providing services or benefits.

I don't want the federal government gaining any more control than it already has. I'm fine with helping people, but the federal government is already bloated and inefficient. I'm not against a strong federal government in principle--far from it--but not with the way our political culture works today.

 

I agree with most of this, but I don't think it is completely applicable to the situation. It's part of the story, but it isn't the full story.

With better policies, we can undoubtedly lift quite a few blacks out of poverty, but I don't think it can ever be fully equalized, due to the disproportionate number of blacks with low IQ's.

Hmmm. It's a tricky situation.

I think your point about some schools using this as a way of inserting a religious agenda are certainly valid, and occasionally problematic, but if that also leads to more innovation and better schools in other communities, then I'm willing to accept it. In other words, if the floor goes down a little in some communities and the ceiling gets higher in others, then it is worth it. It also has the advantage of being more responsive to changes, where federally mandated education is slow to respond and restricts innovation.

I would also like to point out that creationism and intelligent design are mostly irrelevant to learning other subjects. Mormons believe all kinds of stupid things, yet they manage to raise their kids very well, and those kids perform far above average--yes, in science as well.

I'm an atheist and certainly not a fan of theocracy, but I don't think it is as harmful to our society as it is made out to be. In fact, I think secularism has been objectively worse, in many ways.

As for your argument about economic oppression...

I think it is baseless. The idea that whites have ways out of poverty, while blacks don't, is complete nonsense. Impoverished whites face many of the same problems that blacks do.

We also don't get favoritism in federal employment or education.

I agree.

Local administration needs to expand, if anything. Parents should have more power over how they raise their children, not less. The country has already gone too far in determining how parents should raise their kids.

 

Yes; and those are developmental, and therefore personality characteristics that are almost impossible to eradicate...which is why we should not be importing "refugees" that also share them.

If SJWs want to spend their lives in the almost-fruitless task of "helping" ungrateful, untrusting, scheming people that will only stab them in the back in the end, as I believe Obama has done to this country by opening us up to more of this type of person, they have that right...but they do not have the right to drag the rest of us down with them.

I support such things as Headstart. I do not support indefinite, discriminatory services for a constitutionally stupid, suspicious, ungrateful group. All it will do in the end is empower them to stab the rest of us in the back...as it already is, in the highest places.

 

I have read your post four times.... I have prepared diatribes for you and I have erased them and reread what you wrote and asked myself what about your post made me so angry... I am still wrestling with it. My son was diagnosed as ASD at three over 15 years ago. He was my first child and I was 21 when I had him. I had no idea he was different. When he read words at 2, I thought he was brilliant. When he fell out of the wagon when it turned, I had no idea his motor skills weren't normal...
Just before he turned 3 he read a word out of a mafazine in front of my pediatrician. My friend and pediatrician told me he needed to be evaluated by a child neurologist.
When Jake was in private preschool the director pulled me aside and told me I should explore my options because my son would never function in a normal classroom setting. I was just over 20 with my autistic toddler getting put into his carseat in the carline. It took me a minute to catch my breath and I said, Kathy, (*)(*)(*)(*) you. I will make sure Jake succeeds just to spite you, (*)(*)(*)(*)(*). I hope moderators will understand that I am trying to explain the most difficult and most scary time of my life....
Reading and re-reading your post brought so much of that back to me... I couldn't hear anything you had to say because I was so angry and defensive. I was 23 again and my 18 year old son was a toddler in my minivan...

 

Was Bush president in May of 2009, or a Republican Speaker of the House or leader of the Senate?

Did they reverse it, and make bankruptcy easier?

Nope, Democrats only accidentally ended slavery:

“Consumer group praise
On the other side, however, many consumer groups praised the rule, saying it would keep consumers from being on the hook with credit they cannot afford or repay, would discourage unnecessary impulse buying with instant credit, and would protect working spouses from being held responsible for accounts they may not even have known about.” http://www.creditcards.com/credit-c...cards-household-income-1282.php#ixzz3WiwAm9JK

"The United States deplores any intentional effort to denigrate the religious beliefs of [those that believe blacks are Kenites the descendants of Cain and the mark is upon them, and should be held responsible (and enslaved) for accounts they may not even have known about]." (Clinton)


The only way to help blacks is for them to end their support for the blood sucking Democratic Party of Vampire Slavers.