Michael Oren falls on his face

So I gather you have no explanation why the Christian population is shrinking in every muslim country in the middle east except for "bad mean anti-Christian" Israel where it's in fact growing. The failure is quite predictable, unfortunately for you these facts (until you can explain them) completely destroy your entire anti-Israel case. The Christian exodus from all arab/muslim states is just as massive as it is from the West Bank and Gaza.

 

If they were really afraid they could of rejected the offer to speak at all. Interesting how that didn't happen.

Have you ever spoken to a Palestinian Christian, or even an Arab in general? I don't think so.

 

So do you have an explanation of the flood of Christian refugees from all arab states? You do understand that when 90% Christians have left Muslim countries while Christian population of Israel is growing, blaming the departure of West Bank Christians on Israel rings hollow, don't you?

 

Look - I know that you know this, but it is worthy of mentioning once more. When you are arguing with a Zionist, you are arguing with a pathological liar, and someone acutely absent of empathy, and with an overt sense of their own choseness.

Sometimes we scratch our heads, wonder what it would take to convince a Zionist of anything that they deny.

Don't.

The answer as to the 'what' is that there is NOTHING you could evidence that the Zionists would admit, to anything.

No matter how many would say it,no matter the calibre of people saying it, no matter what HO org it comes from, no matter what UN Resolution Evidence it, etc, etc. Why? I said so before...they are pathological liars and morally bankrupt.

Want to know another (almost laughable) irony?

Okay, well for many years now, the German people having been getting bled. Public money is given to the Zionists. Not much of it makes it's way to the actual people that maybe lived through a German intern camp, hence why so many can be shown to have lived in poverty, and still do. It is an industry, and they are not the benefactor.

And so, the despicable Zionist industry, with it's money for god ethos, it turns the sufference of people that who were not them, into both a mutli billion dollar macabre Disneyland, while the real Jewish survivors of the intern camps got crumbs, if that. Still, they fared better than the many non Jewish survivors of the intern camps, who, to the best of my knowledge, did not even get crumbs. And they also turned it into a means to extort money from modern Germans. As well as others. American Zionists ensure that American money is simply taken at source, and they cannot even try to exploit American guilt, since the Americans were not responsible. But it seems they have to pay. Billions. Not to mention the loans that have never been paid back, by Israel. And all of this done, without the consent of the American people. Wow - if that is not anti freedom, I don't know what is.

There is another twist, if we return to Europe.

In a perverse twist, we have ended up in a sitation in which almost ten countries in Europe MUST ONLY recount the Zionist narrative about WW2. Any attempt to suggest, debate, offer, or revise any aspect of WW2, no, not any aspect, any aspect relating to the Jewish claimed holocaust, is actually met with...being interned in a prison.

Yes, educated people, writers, and historians who have refused to mouth the Zionist line, word for word, can find themselves with a criminal record, and in jail. Taken from their family. Locked up with rapists and child molestors. And all for what....writing a book, an intellectual action which merits an intelletual answer, not an aggresive one, or one legislated against in law.

One cannot even buy any book in many Euro nations simply because that book may question that one part, of one part of history.

All others are okay, except for this specific one.

Why should it be treated any different to anyone else, writing anything else, about anything else?

Why indeed...

It is not as if by permitting people to read things and make up their own mind, a book has the magical capacity for mind control.

And even if what they write is 100% fiction, then fine, debate it nevertheless, do not outlaw it's very concept.

But the sickest of all things is that it's Zionists who forced and uphold these laws.

I am sure you can see the deep irony there.


Jack

 

Hello? No takers? Such a simple question and no answers? I am disappointed LOL. Christians are fleeing from every corner of the Muslim world, 90% of them are gone. Yet the Israel-haters have an irresistible urge to pretend they care, concentrate on a tiny part of the Muslim world and blame it on the evils of Israel (the only part of the Middle East where the number of Christians is actually on increase). LOL OK Israel hating boys and girls, take your time, sleep on it, I will remind you tomorrow that you have questions to answer

 

Zionist terrorism v Hamas terrorism


[video=youtube;Sty1i2hnor8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sty1i2hnor8[/video]

And Oren gets a mention here...

[video=youtube;CqkujrSZReg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqkujrSZReg[/video]

 

Care to explain why the Christians even agreed to talk to 60 Minutes, if they were so afraid?

Name some specific countries.

 

Primarily due to economic circumstances and political/regional stability. This is explains why tens of thousands of Arab Christians (and Muslims) have emigrated to Dubai or the KSA (to find jobs; in this case you are wrong about the Christian population shrinking in every Muslim country), or to the West (to further their studies, or find better opportunities). Christians also tend to have lower birthrates than their Muslim counterparts, and are more likely to emmigrate as they (relative to Muslims) have the means to do so.

 

I take it that that means that you still can't explain why Christian leaders in Palestine disagree with you.
Of course Christians are leaving the ME. The whole place has become destabilized and the reasons are complex.

Now, to add breadth and history to your query, why were all these different peoples living together in relative peace up until the 1920s? What happened after that? The Muslims discover Allah?

 

Oh I see, so Christians are fleeing from every corner of the Arab world due to economic conditions (or so you say) but they leave the West Bank and Gaza (a tiny part of the arab world where economic conditions are just as bad as elsewhere in the Muslim world) in the same numbers because of Israel. Is that supposed to make sense?

 

They are afraid to criticize their muslim masters, they obviously are not afraid to bash Israel. The Arabs (regarless of their religion) hate Israel and blame Israel for everything, nothing particularly new here. If Christians were leaving the WB and Gaza only they may have had a point. Given the undeniable fact that Christians are fleeing en-masse from every part of the Muslim world except Israel where the Chrisitian population is growing, your attempts to blame the exodus on Israel ring about as hollow as previous Arab attempts to blame shark attacks in Egyptian waters on Israel did.

 

Now the real reasons of the Christian exodus from the Muslim world, needless to say they have nothing to do with Israel and the excuses offered here by islamists and their western allies

 

Notice how the above troll failed to address my post in its entirety. Until he/she decides to do so, there is no point in continuing the discussion with him/her.

 

As I said, name some countries.

And you are making no sense... If they blame "Israel" for everything, and they blamed "Israel" for "Israel" oppressing them, then why would they need to be afraid of Muslim Palestinians to critisize "Israel", if, regardless of religion, they would of critisized "Israel" anyway?

 

Thats typical of Borat and others like him. They frequently respond to one part of a post, even one sentance. Only the part they know will support their views.

 

Huh? They are afraid of Palestinian muslims to criticize Palestinian muslims. No one in the middle east is afraid to criticize Israel and blame all the regional/world ills on her, it's the favorite pastime of the Arab world.

And given the fact that Christians are fleeing from every corner of the muslim world and millions have already left, blaming a tiny part of this exodus on Israel is patently absurd and anyone with a brain can easily see through it.

 

You said they blame only "Israel" because they are afraid of Muslims. Now you are saying they do it because Arabs in general hate "Israel".

So then why would they need to be afraid of Muslims to hate on "Israel". The hate would not be religiously motivated, rather nationalistic.

And, for the third time, name some countries lol... You won't even include this when you quote this post.

 

Youre telling us that these business people and the clergy are afraid of muslims. So why were they smiling when asked about political islam?

Thats not the reaction of people living on fear of their neighbours.

As for your recent question about widespread arab christian movement;

Internal Political and economic instability create the incentives to move both in the middle east, in the west bank its extternally imposed instability by the occupying power.

Its a pity you cannot just take these people at their word. Do you really think if you met them in private theyd tell you a different story?

 

Forget it, hell never respond to you rentire post.

 

It's seems Mr. Oren isn't the only one who's fallen on his face.

 

Bethlehem’s last Christians

largely ignored by Western media, a systematic campaign of Muslim persecution against the Christians is taking place in Palestinian areas. It’s a religious and ethnic cleansing campaign silenced by the global churches.

The latest victim has been the Baptist Church in Bethlehem, which the Palestinian Authority just declared as illegitimate, as the US church’s message of reconciliation flies in the face of the hateful propaganda permeating Palestinian society. Arab Christians were obliged to make continual compromises, afraid to mention their own suffering for fear of irritating the Muslim authorities. Soon it became a taboo subject even in the West.


As the CBS report showed, Palestinian Christians today have to speak out against “Israeli occupation,” because if they don’t, their silence will be perceived as pro-Israeli by the Muslims. Christian leaders don’t mention the fact that they have suffered the most from the mafia-style rule of Yasser Arafat’s kleptocracy, that slogans like “Islam will win” and “First the Saturday people then the Sunday People” have been painted on their churches, and that PLO flags were draped over crosses.
After the 1948 war, Christian communities suffered most in the West Bank, not under “Israel’s occupation,” but because Muslim refugees were cynically settled in their midst by the Arab leadership. Ramallah was 90% Christian before the war, while Bethlehem was 80% Christian. By 1967, more than half of Bethlehem’s residents were Muslim, while Ramallah is a large Muslim city today.

In the first year of the second Intifada, when Arafat’s terrorists ravaged Christian towns by gunfire and mortars, 1,640 Christians left Bethlehem and another 880 left Ramallah.
In 2007, one year after Hamas’ Gaza takeover, the owner of the Strip’s only Christian bookstore was murdered. Christian shops and schools were firebombed. Ahmad El-Achwal is just one of the many Palestinians converted to Christianity killed by Islamic militants.

Only a few Christian leaders have been brave enough to denounce what is taking place on the ground. With harsh and unexpected words, in 2005 the Custodian of the Holy Land, Pierbattista Pizzaballa, said to an Italian newspaper: “Almost every day – I repeat, almost every day – our communities are harassed by the Islamic extremists.”


http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4221651,00.html

 

Lets try it your way....

Name some countries in the Middle East where the Christian population is decreasing. Specific countries in the region.

 

Comic.

Reality;

Top Ten Reasons Israel tried to Censor Bob Simon’s Report on Palestinian Christians

http://www.juancole.com/2012/04/top...-simons-report-on-palestinian-christians.html

 

Oh and by the way, you should maybe read the comments on there from the Palestinian Christians. Or, better yet, talk to some Palestinian Christians.

Tell them how they are afraid of Muslims.

 

[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: articleTitle"]The Arab world must face its demons
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: Tmp_hSpace10"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Attacks on Christians are a wake-up call for fragmented Arab societies where disenfranchisement breeds bigotry.


[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

The hate in our midst

But this is not to say that Arab societies do not also bear the blame for nurturing the bigotry and hate in our midst.

The attacks on Christian worshippers, first in Iraq and now in Egypt, should serve as a wake-up call for the governments and citizens of the Arab world.

The region's social cohesion has for some time been at risk of total implosion. Repression and economic disenfranchisement have bred extremism, particularly among the young - many of whom despair of a secure, let alone successful, future.

Islam is being manipulated by bigots and quasi-intellectuals who thrive on feeding hate to a constituency of young people frustrated by foreign domination and social injustice.

Sectarianism and prejudice is not confined to extremist or misguided Arab Muslims. Hostile views of Islam are also on the rise within some Arab Christian circles, some of which - either out of fear or to receive Western funding - act as though they are an extension of the West.

This growing mistrust is evident in some of the mushrooming Muslim and Christian satellite channels, which foment spiteful stereotypes and broadcast chauvinism to millions in the name of religion. Many of the Christian channels involved in deepening sectarianism are funded by Western donors. And while it is not clear who funds the Muslim channels, some governments have used radical Islamists to counter the Muslim Brotherhood - the dominant opposition force in many Arab states.

This creeping sectarianism can be found not only in relations between Christians and Muslims but also between Muslims. Colonialism has left Lebanon with a sectarian system that pits Shia and Sunni Muslims against each other as well as against Christians.
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2011/01/20111984740173586.html