Myth busting the Trump economy.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Lee Atwater, Jan 26, 2021.

  1. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Quote: In this forum, those who've insulted my intelligence will deeply regret, and I know who they are.

    Example;

    Prior to our second/Summer Covid19 wave, several Texans in this forum were proudly waving their
    60 deaths per 1M pop........Good Gorvernor, good governance/good policies/good preventive measures......yeah, right! Today's Texas Covid19 deaths per 1M pop; 1,208

    Liberal Canada; 510 deaths per 1M pop

    Also back then, one Texan proudly compared U.S. and Canada's Case Fatality Rates, 3.5% versus 7.5%, thus, "We're doing better than they are'' in quotation.

    Well, today's U.S./Canada's Case Fatality Rates;

    U.S........1.67%...................1,305 deaths per 1M pop
    Canada........2.56%............510 deaths per 1M pop
    CFR, a difference of less than 1%
    and a difference of near 800 deaths per 1M pop

    Thus, which country has a better Covid19 report card, and why?

    Well, here's one reason among many; Canada didn't have a summer wave, WHY?

    Answer; Because their provinces have reopened their economies at a very low positivity rate.

    Trump's loyalists response; "Nothing Trump could have done......Seperation of Powers''

    Well, Canadian provinces have more powers than the states. In fact, Canada is the only country in the world where its states have the legislative powers to overide a Supreme Court decision, and the last Federal power that was transferred to the provinces is minimum wage.

    Thus, compared to our Southern states, why Canadian provinces have waited several more weeks to reopen their economies?

    Seperation of Powers, or Science?
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
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  2. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    British Columbia, lowest number of deaths per 1M pop in North America

    1,128 deaths
    Population; 5 million
    1128/5 = 225 deaths per 1M pop

    Case Fatality Rate; 1.7%
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  3. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    That word be because the leftist argument boils down little more Trump bad Republicans that won't condemn Trump bad there fore everything bad is on them. It's not logic it's feelings.
     
  4. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Oh, please--do you think 90% Canadians are even distributed along the 100 miles?
    Vancouver is the fourth most dense city in North America.
    Halifax is a small urban area, much like cities Maine. I've spent a lot of time in Canada and the United States (born and raised in Southern California, naturalized in Canada). My wife and I live part of the year in both countries.
    Of course, there is. Canada ranks #38 in the world, we rank #36.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urbanization_by_country

    You keep trying to find ways to excuse Trump.

    Australia (#30) is more urbanized than we are.

    C382DA1D-364D-40C2-8021-79048584DEDE.jpeg

    Want really urbanized?

    1C894A30-CECA-431B-8E3D-16873A1F1533.jpeg
     
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  5. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    I live part of the year in the Lower Mainland (near Vancouver). Very urbanized.
     
  6. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Their cities are not as dense as ours. The suburban areas are not a dense as ours.
     
  7. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But there are open spaces between all those urban areas. Where do you go from NYC. It is nothing but urban for fifty miles in all directions. That shear size is nothing but a virus breeder. because you can't get away from it.
    Again. If you want to compare us, we should be compared to Europe. It comes much closer than just artificially picking a country because their numbers are better and then trying to justify it.
     
  8. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Now, you're making stuff up.
     
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  9. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's how they roll.
     
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  10. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Quote: Trump inherited an economy growing at trend growth of around 2% and juiced it with a massive tax cut

    HE Juiced it with massive tax cuts, AND pumped it up with deficit spending, and historically, first time the deficit has nearly doubled prior to a Peak.

    FY1986 Deficit; $221 B
    FY1987 Deficit; $150 B
    FY1989 Deficit; $155 B
    FY1990 Deficit; $221B
    Peak month/year; July 1990

    FY1997; Deficit; $22B
    FY1998; Surplus; $69 B
    FY1999; Surplus; $129B
    FY2000; Surplus; $221B
    Peak month/year; March 2001

    FY2004 Deficit; $413B
    FY2005 Deficit; $318 B
    FY2006 Deficit; $248 B
    FY2007 Deficit; $161 B
    Peak month/year; December 2007

    TRUMP

    FY2016 Deficit; $585B
    FY2017 Deficit; $665B
    FY2018 Deficit; $779B
    FY2019 Deficit; $984B
    Peak month/year; Feb 2020

    https://www.nber.org/research/data/us-business-cycle-expansions-and-contractions

    Note: FY2020 Deficit; CBO's January 2020 estimate; $1.1 billion

    Note: Nominally, Trump's Consumption Expenditures and Gross Investiments have increased by $180 billion over three years, Real, $104 billion.

    Note: Consumption Expenditures and Gross investiments is a GDP component; $1 CGGI = $1 GDP

    Note: Had we maintained CEGI at 2016 level, 2019 GDP growth rate would had been reduced to 1.5% versus 2.2%, and many Republicans have labelled Obama's 1.6% as a dismal rate.

    All of the above are indisputable facts Trump and his loyalists haven't "FACTORED'' prior to displaying their BEST ECONOMY banner.

    IMO, due to different factors and variables, we can't fairly compare economies.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
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  11. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    119442ED-D387-4FCF-8E7F-27EA003CD888.png

    With regard to the virus, do you really think people are trying to "get away from it?"
    Note France and Germany.

    EB461871-BD0C-4C69-9EB1-0E486354885B.jpeg
     
  12. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Show me where I am wrong rather than calling me a liar.
     
  13. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That space makes a big difference.
    Compare us with Europe as a whole. Either that or just compare states in the US.
     
  14. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    I already gave you evidence Canada is as urbanized as we are.

    Face it--the guy you supported dropped the ball. Americans think so.

    CA8AE807-CC4B-4B18-8720-6B3F26D15C50.jpeg
     
  15. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Funny......

    In March/April/several times, Trump compared us with South Korea

    Trump; ''The U.S. is doing more coronavirus testing than South Korea''

    Trump was right, HOWEVER, back then, per capita basis, South Korea was testing far more than the U.S.

    Mr. Kriman, according to your comparing rules, how many times Trump was wrong?
     
  16. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't know or care what Trump said. If you are going to compare, compare us against a similar country or countries rather than just picking one that is doing better and then rationalizing it to why it is comparable.
     
  17. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    No, the "space" you talk about in Canada has almost no one in it.
    You keep moving the goal posts because I keep shredding your argument.

    Trump let down his supporters and the American people. If we had done as well as British Columbia (5.1m people) where I am now...

    6EF8D362-F556-42B9-9E89-CDB52BB28BA3.jpeg

    .... we would have lost fewer than 75,000 people.
     
  18. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I haven't moved anything. You brought up Canada which is in no way comparable to the US in population density or anything else. If you want to pick comparables, the closest is Western Europe.
     
  19. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    What about Alaska's and British Columbia's number of Covid19 deaths per 1M pop?

    Alaska; 353 deaths per 1M pop
    British Columbia; 225 deaths per 1M pop

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

    Alaska population density; 1.26 per square mile
    British columbia population density; 13 per square mile

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Columbia
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska

    A fair comparison?
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
  20. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    The mortality rate is higher in Canada because a larger percentage of their cases are in long-term care homes.
     
  21. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    In reference to ''fair trade'', there's another hypocrisy.......

    Back in the days when Trump wanted to renegotiate NAFTA, Trump insisted that we had a trade deficit with Canada. However, back then, the Canucks were saying; ''If we include both trade in GOODS and SERVICES, U.S. has a trade surplus with Canada.

    What's the hypocrisy?

    Well, the largest component of "Trade in Services" is INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY, and not too long ago, IP theft in China was costing us approx. $200 billion annually.

    What's the hypocrisy?

    Trade in SERVICES with China.....highly relevant!
    Trade in SERVICES with Canada......were ignored!
     
  22. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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  23. Mike12

    Mike12 Well-Known Member

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    Guys, get back to econ 101.. there are plenty of books out there. Heard of fiscal stimulus? And try opening up a business where you have to clear hurdles of 50 regulations vs 10.. yes, massive de-regulation does work. But let’s get back to basics

    before covid, economy was just remarkable.. record unemployment for minorities and just churning, churning.. wage growth making a comeback. Obama kept a ceiling on things, trump lifted it.

    Them dems wanted lockdowns with covid, unemployment went from 4-14%. Our president saved our economy from those who wanted to crush it
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
  24. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    In addition to the above;

    U.S./Canada trade facts......2019

    U.S. goods and services trade with Canada totaled an estimated $718.4 billion in 2019. Exports were $360.4 billion; imports were $358.0 billion. The U.S. goods and services trade surplus with Canada was $2.4 billion in 2019.

    Trade in services with Canada (exports and imports) totaled an estimated $106.3 billion in 2019. Services exports were $67.7 billion; services imports were $38.6 billion. The U.S. services trade surplus with Canada was $29.2 billion in 2019

    Source; Office of the United States Trade Representative
    https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/canada

    ---------------

    There you go, in 2019, U.S. still had a trade surplus with Canada, both GOODS and SERVICES. Thus, prior and during NAFTA's renegotiations, who was distorting the truth? Evidently, Trump!.....and due to political peer pressure, most of his loyalists agreed with him.

    In fact, even Trump's Trade Representative admittted that we were to harsh on Canada.

    What I didn't like about Trump's ''Art of the Deal'' is; In an effort to obtain what you want, it's OK to lie/distort the truth.
     
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  25. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    I established Canada is about as urbanized as we are.

    26BB5BA9-9C1A-428F-B8B5-296B9AAF4483.jpeg

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/270221/ranking-of-the-30-countries-with-the-highest-degree-of-urbanization/

    You're in over your head.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021

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