Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by Sobo, Jan 20, 2020.
I poked fun at their WW2 navy.
What's your point?
Why are you poking fun at the German navy when your own government is in such shambles?
No, they weren't. Neither Germany nor Japan initiated conflict with the US. The US got itself involved which caused both Germany and Japan to respond.
I'm sure if millions of Americans were being incinerated by Japanese bombers, and the entirety of US civilization was been reduced to rubble, the Japanese-American prisoners would have been well taken care of...
Okay, but the fact remains, they didn't do it. Stalin conquered eastern Europe and some of central Europe for about five decades. And preventing the conquest of eastern Europe was the primary justification used to declare war on Germany. Therefore, WWII was fought for nothing in the end. Eastern Europe was conquered anyway, by a regime that was every bit as murderous and evil as the Nazis. And after two world wars meant to keep Germany contained, Germany has become the dominant power on the European continent anyway.
No to America, he wasn't. Not until we forced his hand.
Poking fun at the USN is okay.
Japan bombed Hawaii and Germany declared war on the United States.
The U.S. cut off Japan's oil supply and supplied the UK with weapons.
Not like Hitler exterminated Jews (and others) in Auschwitz.
The U.S. declared war on Germany after Germany declared war first.
The Nazis were much worse than the Soviets.
Are you comparing Germany in 2020 with Germany in 1944?
Was the US supposed to continue to feed the Japanese Empire war materiel, while they savaged China?
The US was well within its right to place sanctions on Japan.
For what it's worth, "60 miles" even straight up is not considered to be "in space".
"space" is considered to be either 100 miles above the surface of the Earth.
Or 100 kilometers above the surface of the Earth. Which comes out to 62.5 miles.
Either way 60 miles up is not "space".
That’s a frigate, and battleships are obsolete.
You need to understand that Sobo is German and only speak some basic English. With battle ship he means war ship.
Some times if you are conversing in a foreign language the nuances get lost.
So do not get hung up on the wrong usage of a word.
In retro, he might not be that wrong. Todays frigates or cruiser would put any of the last battle ships at a shame, just by their fire power and reach, with todays modern weaponry.
I thought it Sobo was really a kid from New Jersey just pretending to be from Germany?
I don’t think you can really compare the two. A 20th century battleship like the Iowa class have a displacement of something like 47 tons, and pretty much served as a floating artillery platform. You right about today’s frigate outclassing battleships when it comes to firepower, they’re also lighter, faster, and more cost efficient to operate.
...Its just a thought but are they of any use....I mean I understand that we all like ships as a kid I wanted to join the navy and be on one of these big super sexy aircraft carriers. I just wonder if they are any use though? I mean these walloping great carriers need a flotilla of dinky subs and wee frigate things and and other tiddly wee missile boats to protect them but when push comes to shove one nuc and they're all toast...are they of any use? Its a bit like these hulking great tanks that sure scare the beejeebers out of Afghan farmers but against anybody that has half a brain they are pretty useless. I guess what I'm getting at is...is big any use anymore?
Well, since anyone using a nuke is highly unlikely I would say that yes, carrier groups are the lethal force projection ever.
I suppose when the world was about opposing armies and stand up battles and marching, chin up unto strife I can see that...sink the Bismark and up the Prinz Eugen's arse and all that...but.... but what use now...in the major conflicts of the past 30 years what real use have those gazzillion dollar lumps of metal actually been...I'm intrigued? I see our royal navy spending whole gobs of cash on, 4 is it? 4 ballistic missile submarines for what....I mean what bloody use are they when we could use the money for better things...and...sound the fanfares....we have this really cool new Aircraft carrier...one....and it cost a mint....I mean...why....which moron though that would be a good idea!? Today we are all about the leveraging of ISR capabilities, asymmetrics and cybers and other cool words all meaning that we don't reeeeeaaly need these floating behemoths because of the disparate military capabilities and strategies of our modern enemies - I'm pretty sure that the days of peer to peer slug matches are pretty well over...hopefully....anyway....I just reckon these things are more about career paths and inter-service kudos that practicality. Than again I'm a cynic.
Germany should work on putting the entire battleship into space like USA, Russia, and China have already done
It seems the last time Germany started making battleships it ended up badly for them.
Who is going to ATTACK Germany and why ... !?!
The Germany of today is not the Germany of the 1920s coming out of WW1 (that it lost) with a high-penalty of a retribution-cost slapped on the country by the "allies" (France and England).
This impoverished the Germans and paved the way for Hitler who was going to make Germany great again.
The best self-defense is a thriving economy and doing-away with the current brand of secularism coming from dolts in the eastern-countries. That perhaps never should have been let into the EU. Some of the political leaders there are real nutters.
The Eastern-block people have had no grounding whatsoever in the functioning of a market-economy. They wait for the government to tell them what to do. They are mentally still in "Communist mode".
Once this COV-19 is behind us, the EU has to kick-start itself economically. Which is dead simple. People and governments get out and SPEND, SPEND, SPEND.
And do not wait for someone else to do the spending, spending, spending ...
Just what are you getting at? That what will make Germany great-again are a few more battleships?
Who the hell needs a battleship in Europe? Where's the enemy?
No, the world has moved out of the Industrial Age and into the Information Age.
Germany is a country that works well. People know how to work. The problem is that its costs are far too high and it remains locked in markets that it has dominated for a great long time. In many of those markets manufacturing dominated. And manufacturing fled to the Far East more than 30 years ago! (And it is not coming back except in the form products produced in the Far East!)
The EU is a market-economy of more than 500 million consumers, which is far more than the US at 320 million. It has the means to create jobs.
The EU's main problem is each country cannot think beyond its own borders. Because they are run mostly by people who grew up in post-WW2 Europe. These "oldies" should clear-the-decks and leave the economy to the younger-people. Who are more adventurous and will be the Prime-Movers of the New Economy.
What New Economy? The world is moving from the Industrial Age (dominated by countries like Germany) and into the Information Age, where there is far less domination of any one country. What Europe needs to do for the Information Age is to educate its kids into Information-Age Jobs. And that should not be a difficult problem given that post-secondary schooling in Europe is almost free, gratis and for nothing.
There is a Brave New World Economy waiting for us. We must have the courage to accept it - because it is NOTHING LIKE the economies that have existed before.
The Information Age is not nuts-&-bolts in factories. (That sort of product manufacturing moved to the far-east 30 years ago.)
Today and tomorrow it's the Services Industries on the Internet which is everywhere - but one needs added-skills to be able to work there meaning a higher-level of education ...
Bollocks! There is no need for the Self-Defense beyond the present measures. Why?
Because there is no military THREAT of any consequence menacing the EU and as such present military capacity will do. (Besides, a European army is already fighting the only real threat in mid-Africa!)
For your edification: France weighs up its thankless mission fighting jihadists in Africa - excerpt:
And most of the French will thank him for leaving. It is extremely difficult to justify the war against "al Qaida" by means of skirmishes in the desert of Africa!
What you want perhaps is "more toys for our boys". What they need, however, is a proper-education to get a decent (non-military) job ...
PS: If you like to play with guns, go to a shooting gallery!
Stalin had a good piece of luck. He had signed a treaty with Hitler that Hitler ripped up. Hitler had a crazy idea of expanding Germany eastward into Poland. Then he had REALLY NUTTY notion to attack Russia. BIG MISTAKE. Stalin unbolted key components of Russian manufacturing and moved it eastward (out of reach). Those companies made the tanks that Stalin used to defeat the Germans and ultimately take Berlin. (Let's not forget the toll of Russian soldiers was far, far higher than either Brits or Yanks who died in WW2.)
Stalin's conquest of Eastern Europe was just Bad Luck for those other European--countries. I suggest that in terms of mentality and despite the fact that many have been accepted into the EU has not change the single-mindedness of some politicians there. All they ever knew in their lives was Communist Dictatorial Rule - and they seem to have very little notion of how a plural-democracy functions.
There are the two-brothers that used to run Poland (now only one). And a few others who have somehow won a solid majority vote. Given time, and some wakey-wakey on the part of the citizens of those countries, they will lose their grip.
The new head of the EU Commission in Brussels is a German lady who was the Minister of Defense in Germany. She will have a keen eye on what happens in those Eastern countries - and she's the lady who signs the authorizations for Brussels to spend money in those countries.
And, frankly, I think she got her present job because she knows well those eastern EU-countries that THINK they have right to run domestic-policy as they see fit. Some of the present leaders are all leftovers from previous Iron-Curtain countries and have a lot-to-learn about the inbred "plurality" of democracies.
Methinks Madam is going to surprise all of us ...
Germany should do no such thing.
If anything, Germany should work on a multilateral agreement that no nuclear weapons will be employed in space surrounding the earth.
And, that is just for starters ...
With today's sophisticated satellite- and radar-rocketry they are ALL sitting-ducks ...
...yeah that was pretty much my thoughts too!
All these hulking great lumps of steel are basically waste of time and money...unless you're an admiral and need something to Admiral over.... an Admiral with no ships now there's a career killer. I once read something in the UK press years ago about there being more British Admirals of the Fleet than we had ships.....
I got my fill of playing with guns in 1968 while in the military .
My point was the US should not spend our taxes and bottowed money in the defense of Europe . If Europe needs defending they should have their own military and spend their money on it.
I don't expect Germany to invafe other nations again . But that goes for russia too.
The EU has its own Defense Force. It no longer needs the US military. Nonetheless, 63.7K members of US armed-forces are located in Europe.
Besides, we are more than 800K Yank civilians who live in Europe. And we are forced to pay double-taxation. Europe and the US. From Europe we get free National Health care and free post-secondary education. From Uncle Sam we get nada. But we pay taxes to him on all income above $100K a year.
Yeah, double taxation! Suckers aren't we ... ?
Separate names with a comma.