Part 38 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Mitt Ryan, Mar 30, 2017.

  1. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    You are a prisoner of your own limited thinking ability. Learn something else beside silly ancient ethnocentric Middle Eastern religious fairy tales. Where do complex elements come from? They come from the evolution of hydrogen atoms being cooked in stars. Where does hydrogen come from? It comes from sub-atomic particles. Where do the sub-atomic particles come from? They come from quantum foam. Where does the quantum foam come from? It comes from strings? Where do the strings come from? They come from nothing or from something else a step or two more complex from nothing.

    You have no idea how large the universe is. Imagine if the universe cosmos has as many separate universes are there are atoms in our own visible universe multiplied a trillion trillion times.

    You believe in a silly fairytale in which the hero says that the stars will fall to the Earth. He thought that stars were little points of light in the night sky. Even you know better than that, don't you?
     
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  2. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Have you even read your bible, --- liar?

    Rev 4 11

    Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

    Including evil.

    Thanks for the offer of how to read scriptures, but as shown, you Christians liars need honest readers to teach you.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  3. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Without inquisitions and jihads to grow their religions, our vile mainstream garbage religions would not likely exist.

    Regards
    DL
     
  4. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Man end as more powerful than Yahweh as we can produce evil and he cannot.

    Nice that believers limit their limitless god's power.

    Oops.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  5. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Mitt is so forgetful. He forgot about the tree of knowledge of good and evil. And since the God character made the tree he made evil as well or he would have never know what it was. He tries but he is still in first grade.
     
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  6. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    You have no idea what you are saying but I'm not surprised by it, after all that goes with the territory of being an unbeliever of the Creator, Almighty God! I have no idea how you got the false impression that I think the Creator, Almighty God will wipe out His perfect works. To me your question is really incoherent.

    But anyway it is true when God created the heavens and the earth, His work came out perfectly. However He knew that mankind would mess things up in the sense that evil would enter into the world. So consequently we live in a sinful fallen world...there is nothing perfect about that. Mankind is at fault, not our Creator, Almighty God. But this earth of ours that He created is temporal...same as our lives here on earth, it is temporal. It's really the first stage of our existence, the earthly stage. The next stage is the existence in the eternity.

    Where Almighty God resides, that's where the real perfection is. That's where the saved spend eternity. They spend eternity in Paradise, in His Kingdom of Heaven, where there is no more death or sorrow or crying or pain because there is no evil in His Kingdom of Heaven.

    But to get there, one needs to be a Christian, a born again Christian. All others who are non-Christians will spend an eternity in an not so perfect environment. It is not so perfect because that's where they will be in being punished for their sins they have committed in their earthly lives, their greatest sin is of course not believing in the Creator, Almighty God! That sin is the only unpardonable sin, all others are pardonable.

    So there is still hope for the ones like yourself to save yourselves from doom. The clock is ticking and eventually it runs out for all of us at some point. So think about this very seriously. Do you want to take the chance of being unsaved and end up at that no so perfect environment or do you want to make the wisest decision you've ever made in your entire life by coming to terms with your Creator by believing in Him of what He has revealed to us in His Best-Selling Book of All-Time, the Holy Bible.

    By believing that His Son, Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ paid your sin debt on the cross when He shedded His sinless innocent blood some two-thousand years ago as depicted in the Scriptures of Holy Bible!

    We Read in Scripture:

    Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ said,


    "For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve others and to give His life as a ransom for many." Mark 10:45 NLT

    16 "For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 NLT

    4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or sorrow or crying or pain. All these things are gone forever.” Revelation 21:4 NLT

    To get you unbelievers started on your quest on being saved you can start by first accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord Savior and be a born again Christian, here is a sample prayer. Remember, saying this prayer or any other prayer will not save you. It is only trusting in Our Lord Savior Jesus Christ that can save you from sin. This prayer is simply a way to express to the Creator, Almighty God your faith in Him and thank Him for providing for your salvation.

    "Almighty God, I know that I have sinned against you and am deserving of punishment. But Jesus Christ took the punishment that I deserve so that through faith in Him I could be forgiven. I place my trust in You for salvation. Thank You for Your wonderful grace and forgiveness—the gift of eternal life! Amen!"
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2021
  7. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Yes I have, and when I read it I don't misinterpret what I read unlike you.

    Exactly what I thought, in that there is a verse somewhere in Scripture where unbelievers like yourself will read it to come away with a misinterpretation.

    Most of unbelievers point to the Book of Isaiah when they mistakenly interpret a verse in that book to mean that God created evil. But you mistakenly believe you have found a verse in the Book of Revelation to mean that God created evil for His pleasure.

    But sorry, again there is no verse anywhere in the Scriptures that makes the claim that you made when you stated: "Your own bible says that God created all things, good and evil, for his pleasure."

    So where does it say what you claimed? Forget it don't answer because it's no where to be found.

    I don't see the verse you presented saying: "for thou hast created all things, good and evil and for thy pleasure they are and were created"

    But what I do see the verse saying precisley is: "for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."

    So obviously you have misinterpreted "all things" to mean including the word "evil". Sorry but that doesn't fly.

    Here is where you missed the ball, God created all things...keyword..."things". Things are like the stars, planets, all different life forms, all non-life matter...those my boy are "things" that He created that pleasured Him because they were all good things.

    But here this is what I'm going to do for you. I going to defer to one of my most favorite Christian site to thoroughly explain in-depth to you and others who misinterpret Scripture to make you understand that the Creator, Almighty God did not create evil. So it answers the question: Did God create evil?

    At first it might seem that if God created all things, then evil must have been created by God. However, evil is not a “thing” like a rock or electricity. You cannot have a jar of evil. Evil has no existence of its own; it is really the absence of good. For example, holes are real but they only exist in something else. We call the absence of dirt a hole, but it cannot be separated from the dirt. So when God created, it is true that all He created was good. One of the good things God made was creatures who had the freedom to choose good. In order to have a real choice, God had to allow there to be something besides good to choose. So, God allowed these free angels and humans to choose good or reject good (evil). When a bad relationship exists between two good things we call that evil, but it does not become a “thing” that required God to create it.

    Perhaps a further illustration will help. If a person is asked, “Does cold exist?” the answer would likely be “yes.” However, this is incorrect. Cold does not exist. Cold is the absence of heat. Similarly, darkness does not exist; it is the absence of light. Evil is the absence of good, or better, evil is the absence of God. God did not have to create evil, but rather only allow for the absence of good.

    God did not create evil, but He does allow evil. If God had not allowed for the possibility of evil, both mankind and angels would be serving God out of obligation, not choice. He did not want “robots” that simply did what He wanted them to do because of their “programming.” God allowed for the possibility of evil so that we could genuinely have a free will and choose whether or not we wanted to serve Him.

    As finite human beings, we can never fully understand an infinite God (Romans 11:33-34). Sometimes we think we understand why God is doing something, only to find out later that it was for a different purpose than we originally thought. God looks at things from a holy, eternal perspective. We look at things from a sinful, earthly, and temporal perspective. Why did God put man on earth knowing that Adam and Eve would sin and therefore bring evil, death, and suffering on all mankind? Why didn’t He just create us all and leave us in heaven where we would be perfect and without suffering? These questions cannot be adequately answered this side of eternity. What we can know is whatever God does is holy and perfect and ultimately will glorify Him. God allowed for the possibility of evil in order to give us a true choice in regards to whether we worship Him. God did not create evil, but He allowed it. If He had not allowed evil, we would be worshiping Him out of obligation, not by a choice of our own will.

    https://www.gotquestions.org/did-God-create-evil.html
     
  8. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Christians hate to be out quoted but most non-believers know their enemy so as to resist their evil.

    Christians stay in first grade till they put away the things of children and become Gnostic Christians, --- or something worse to the religionists.

    Regards
    DL
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2021
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  9. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Your bible says that perfection always continues to flow from perfection and that perfection can never lose it's perfection.

    You have Yahweh losing his perfection and saying he is too incompetent to formulate a plan that man cannot derail.

    We cannot be messing up, and that is why you Christians sing that Adam's sin is a happy fault and necessary to god's plan.

    I see the perfection of the evolving plan while you see an incompetent god and a derailable plan.

    What kind of Christian are you who would degrade all of god's works and perfection?

    Regards
    DL
     
  10. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Ok.

    Who is Yahweh's co-creator and responsible for creating evil?

    If you want to chat, know that I think people are ********, when they quote so much **** from places like Got Question.

    Regards
    DL
     
  11. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Creating all things means physical things. Evil is spirit which fwiw was introduced by Satan the Father of lies. You should cease your vain imaginings.
     
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  12. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Be a grown man and admit you have misinterpreted Scripture. Have you ever considered attending a class to improve your reading comprehension skills?...lol

    I have a better idea, why don't you attend a Bible Study class, there you will learn the proper interpretations of the Scriptures in the Holy Bible, that's my good advice to you.
     
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  13. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    That is so silly. The god character is sitting in the void where nothing exists so he gets the idea to create stuff. He goes against the laws of nature, such as creating grass before the sun and the stars. He then creates all of the animals with both sexes and then he creates Adam without a female counterpoint. So, after Adam screws all of the animals and can't find a suitable partner, the God character gives Adam a mickey and steals one of his ribs and create a woman creature for him. Now the God character gets another bright idea and he wants Adam and Eve to screw things up so that he can send down his son to get the crap beaten out of him and killed as a sacrifice for man's sins, such as wearing mixed fabrics and eating shellfish and doing housework on the sabbath.

    I suppose the fairy tale made sense 2,000 years ago but I am not buying it today.
     
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  14. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    OK, what are the real Ten Commandments? Only one major character in the Bible displayed total obedience and compete loyalty without whining, who was it?
     
  15. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    You were doing so good until you came to your last statement. Have you forgotten the fundamental logically true statement? It appears you have so let me state it again.

    "From nothing, nothing comes."

    So let me help you here.

    It was the Creator, Almighty God who created the strings and all the progressive events you laid out that evolved to the point forming those complex elements.

    There is no such thing as "nothing" creating something. Again I repeat, "From nothing, nothing comes"

    "From something, something comes" In other words this something is the living All-Powerful Eternal Being, the Creator Almighty God who caused everything else to come into existence.

    He started the chain of events by creating the strings first that led all the way to those complex elements being formed. If everything is true what you laid out excluding that "nothing" part of course, because that is definitely impossible.

    "Nothing" creating something is absurd, ridiculous, impossible, illogical, ludicrous! I can go on and on but I'm sure my point has been adequately made here.
     
  16. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    OK, you have stepped in it once again. Where did your favorite God character come from?
     
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  17. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Your question is flawed when it's referring to the Creator Almighty God because it sneaks in the false assumption that He came from somewhere and then asks where that might be. The answer is that the question does not even make sense. It is like asking, “What does blue smell like?” Blue is not in the category of things that have a smell, so the question itself is flawed. In the same way, the Creator Almighty God is not in the category of things that are created or caused. The Creator Almighty God is uncaused and uncreated—He simply exists.

    How do we know this? We know that from nothing, nothing comes. So, if there were ever a time when there was absolutely nothing in existence, then nothing would have ever come into existence. But things do exist. Therefore, since there could never have been absolutely nothing, something had to have always been in existence. That ever-existing thing is what we call the Creator Almighty God. Almighty God is the uncaused Being that caused everything else to come into existence. Almighty God is the uncreated Creator who created the universe and everything in it. Almighty God has no beginning, has no ending, Almighty God is eternal. Almighty God is responsible for all creation.

    There are things which come into existence. Everything which comes into existence is caused to exist by something else. There cannot be an infinite series of past causes. Therefore, there exists a first cause which did not come into existence. In other words, the first cause always existed...which we call Almighty God.
    It is obvious that nothing can cause itself to come into existence. Anything that causes itself to come into existence has to exist before it exists. This is impossible. Perhaps something can come into existence from nothing without any cause whatsoever. Can a thing just pop into existence with absolutely no cause? This also does not seem reasonable.

    "There cannot be an infinite series of past causes." Is the series of past causes infinite? Can the universe have an infinite past? The answer is that it cannot. First, there are philosophical reasons to think the past cannot be infinite. Second, there are scientific reasons which support this view.

    If one asks "How can I know there is an Almighty God? you can answer them by saying there is the Bible, there is nature, there is man, and there is logic. These point to the Creator Almighty God. None are possible by happenstance. None could have been produced by accident.

    We read in Scripture:

    "They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God."---Romans 1:19-20 NLT
     
  18. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Things exist because hydrogen forms from elemental subatomic particles. Hydrogen then forms huge gravity balls that go nuclear. Once that happens the hydrogen is cooked into heavier elements. The star then goes nuclear and blows those elements into the void. The chunks then form into clumps and start circling the star. As they grow into size they form globes and their cores go nuclear and create even more elements that eventually transform the planet. Under the right conditions organic compounds are created and become lifeforms. Eventually one of those lifeforms will create a deity so that he can answer where did everything come from.

    It is a way to get an easy answer to a scientific question. Why don't you believe that people came from trees? Other people have believed that.
     
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  19. Matt84

    Matt84 Well-Known Member

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    These responses are funny, but when someone has concrete evidence of a higher power and not just word of mouth, please do let me know.
     
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  20. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Your bible says all things.

    Your god must be the creator and father of lies, liar.

    Your bible, should you read it, says it is god that puts false ideas into people.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  21. Greatest I am

    Greatest I am Well-Known Member

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    Only immoral pathetic pieces of immoral garbage like you will attack the poster while ignoring the message.

    The sign of a small mind of a loser.

    Regards
    DL
     
  22. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    So you are Gods fault? Whatever happened to your proclamations regarding personal accountability. Or is that a matter for another self serving argument.
     
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  23. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    You ask for the impossible, as in physical proof of a personal revelation that God lives. Can you give concrete proof that your words are yours and not anothers. Or that your quest begins with you? No you can't. And yet you present it, furthering the want, in boast of its might, yet imprisoned by the strength of its pull, like an event horizon. That's thought of course. This life sustains us. We plant our feet, touch our walls, fill our stomachs with food, feel the warmth or coolness in the meeting of our needs...look about and say, life is good. But what about that thing....

    Matthew 16
    When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
    [14] And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
    [15] He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
    [16] And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
    [17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
    [18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
     
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  24. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Good try but sorry your explanation of why things exist is well not factual, not factual because it's based on your speculations, your theories, your opinions, your guesses, your assumptions. You speak as though you were there when all these supposedly events happened as you explained them. So let's just say you have faith in what you have presented to be true in why things exist, it is your unproven belief.

    But let me remind you that these elements these subatomic particles you spoke of had a beginning, they were not here as though they always existed in other words being eternal. At one time our brilliant scientist had that belief that the universe was eternal and so there was no need for a Creator, an Almighty God to be in the picture. One such brilliant scientist physicist Albert Einstein was one of those scientist who didn't believe in a living personal Almighty God. He believed like those other colleagues of his that the universe was eternal.

    But then his discovery of the theory of relativity changed everything.

    Albert Einstein’s theory of relativity means that the universe had a beginning and was not eternal as he had previously believed (Einstein was originally a pantheist). His theory proved that the universe is not a cause, but instead one big effect—something brought it into existence. Einstein disliked his end result so much that he introduced a “fudge factor” into his theory that allowed for an eternal universe. But there was only one problem. His fudge factor required a division by zero in his calculations—a mathematical error any good math student knows not to make. When discovered by other mathematicians, Einstein admitted his error calling it “the greatest blunder of my life.” After his acknowledgment, and upon confirming further research that showed the universe expanding just as his theory of relativity predicted, Einstein bowed to the fact that the universe is not eternal and said, "I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts; the rest are details."

    Albert Einstein became a deeply religious man in his later years. This was all after his theory of relativity discovery that concluded the universe had a beginning.
    Let me present one of his real anti-religious quotes he made during his younger years before his theory of relativity discovery:

    “The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.” -from the “God letter”

    Then in his later years after his theory of relativity discovery one of the first quotes that I already mentioned above out of his mouth was:
    "I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts; the rest are details."

    Here is his "deeply religious man" quote:
    "A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, our perceptions of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which only in their most primitive forms are accessible to our minds: it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute true religiosity. In this sense, and only this sense, I am a deeply religious man... I am satisfied with the mystery of life's eternity and with a knowledge, a sense, of the marvelous structure of existence—as well as the humble attempt to understand even a tiny portion of the Reason that manifests itself in nature." -“The World As I See It”

    A few more of his quotes after he became a deeply religious man:
    "God does not play dice with the universe."
    "God is subtle but he is not malicious."

    Lastly this comes from Peter:
    “Peter Bucky—the son of one of his few intimate friends, grew up knowing Einstein and often chauffeured him—writes that Einstein ‘composed a number of songs to honor God, which I heard him sing to himself many times. I also heard him say that anybody who loves nature must love God. He also told me once that ideas, as such, stemmed from God.’” -Robert Goldman, “Einstein’s God”

    He indeed became a deeply religious man, I mean according to Peter Bucky a witness to all of this, Albert began composing a number of songs to honor God and he sang them to himself many times...now that's a deeply religious man no doubt.

    Have you asked yourself the same question? Why don't you believe that people came from trees?

    I don't need to answer that ridiculous question because you have known for a long time now where my beliefs are, who I have faith in. A tree is just another living life form that our Creator Almighty God created. He revealed to us everything He created in His Best Selling Book of All-Time, the Holy Bible. It' all there in the Book of Genesis.

    But one last logical point I want to make before I leave. Say for argument sake that the universe was eternal. It would be illogical for non-life matter to create breathing living beings. How would that work? How can something life-less create living beings? That is so illogical. What is logical is that from something that is already living can there be creation into other living beings.

    That's where our Eternal Creator, Almighty God comes in. Because He lives, because He is Eternal, because He is All-Powerful only He can create all the different living life forms that exist here on His green earth.

    We Read in Scripture:

    The Account of Creation

    1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. Genesis 1:1-2 NLT

    "They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God."---Romans 1:19-20 NLT
     
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  25. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Wow! Such anger. Why so angry? Why all the disparaging remarks? Like they say if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen...lol

    Your message/statement wasn't taken seriously because it was untruthful. Let's go back to the untruthful statement spewed out of your mouth, below is your quote.

    And when I initially responded to your untruthful statement above telling you there is no where in the Scriptures where it says what you spewed out. You then responded in your next post by asking me a question and before I could even answer it you called me a liar all in that question of yours because you really thought you were right and I was wrong. Below is that quote/question of yours.

    You presented the verse in Scripture that came from the Book of Revelation Chapter 4, verse 11 below.

    Now does that verse above looks precisely like what you initially spewed out of your mouth: "Your own bible says that God created all things, good and evil, for his pleasure."?

    The answer is of course no...it doesn't. It doesn't because you misinterpreted the verse. You made the mistake of adding the word "evil" into it. And I explained thoroughly to you in a previous post why you were wrong.

    But here you are coming back and doing what you're accusing me of doing...attacking me while ignoring all the truthful messages/responses I have given you prior to this current post of yours...such hypocrisy! It is you the one who is the loser...a sore loser...sorry but that's simply the truth here, your actions proves it.

    One last note, we are told in the Scriptures of the Holy Bible that we should not add words of our own to the Scriptures. Our Creator Almighty God who is the author of the Holy Bible frowns upon that. Essentially that is what you've have done by adding a few words that is not in Scripture of the verse in Revelation 4:11.

    We Read in Scripture:

    5 Every word of God proves true. He is a shield to all who come to him for protection. 6 Do not add to his words, or he may rebuke you and expose you as a liar. Proverbs 30:5-6 NLT
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2021

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