Part 38 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Mitt Ryan, Mar 30, 2017.

  1. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    3,782
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Part 38 is a continuation of Post Your Tough Questions pertaining to God/Jesus/Holy Bible and I will do my best to clarify and make sense of it to those who are unaware...I still have questions and comments I haven't responded to in Part 10 thru 37.

    I don't want my intentions to come across as converting you or whatever lol... but rather clear up things etc... so ask away. Also I don't want people to feel like I'm ignoring your question/questions/comment/comments, like I said I'm still answering questions on Part 10 and so yes, I'm behind.

    And so when your question comes up and if it is coherent enough in my view I will then answer it. Sometimes I do answer questions out of order but for the most part I answer them as I'm going through the threads. Ok thanks for your understanding & patience!...so again ask away.
     
    DennisTate likes this.
  2. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    3,782
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    48
    That's true, science is not God so it can't be anyone's god. It is because of Almighty God the Creator that we have science. God is essentially the Head Scientist.

    Although you must admit there are some people who look to science as though it is their god.
     
    usfan and DennisTate like this.
  3. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    3,782
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Actually you should say, science is a method that is a means to an end. In other words
    it is a method of investigation involving observation and theory which is a means to test scientific hypotheses which is the end result.
     
  4. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    3,782
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    48
    But science has its limits, it cannot tell us how exactly was the universe created and why was the universe created.
     
    yabberefugee likes this.
  5. DPMartin

    DPMartin Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2017
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    28
    mitt ryan

    science can be a god, not the true God as in Creator and Judge, but yet anything worshiped and respected as a god by humans is a god. as you know there were many gods back in the days before Christ. its just that in western culture the church of Rome and Constantinople were authorized to do away with any competing gods and religions within the empire. it seems when looking at some of the theology they authorize to teach, they probably converted the pagan religion because they may not have been able to convert the populous at the time.

    for example the "mother of god theology" was accepted by the church in a town where there was a strong worship of a female god, of which at this time I don't remember what town or god that was. if my memory serves the principle person that was to argue against the adoption of this theology was intentionally out maneuvered and wasn't even able to attend that meeting and lost by default. but don't hold me to that I could be thinking of some other similar event.

    anyway, though there may not be worshipers of statues and such, as much as then, most idols of today, are carried within men's hearts.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017
  6. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    3,782
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Yeah, I know, I understand what you're saying like I mentioned in post # 2 of this thread, "there are some people who look to science as though it is their god."
     
  7. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    3,782
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Well I don't know if we should really call it a conflict, let's just say that science has no answers to explain the supernatural ability of God to perform such extraordinary amazing feats. We are not of the level to understand/explain the omnipotence of Almighty God.

    Look at the very first extraordinary amazing feat of God when He created the universe, our beloved science till this day still can't figure out on how exactly did Almighty God accomplish this super remarkable feat/task.

    Here is a scientific impossibility: To believe that nothing caused the universe to come into existence.
    Because as we learn from science, from nothing, nothing comes.

    That's why it makes logical/scientific sense to believe that Almighty God the Eternal One caused the universe to come into existence.

    We Read in Scripture:

    "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." ---Genesis 1:1 NLT
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017
  8. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    3,782
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    48
    First of all the theory of evolution is not a proven scientific reality, let's not forget it is still a theory.

    And as far as Roman Catholics are concerned your statement is not entirely true in regards to how they view evolution in particular. Click on the link below to get more insight.

    http://www.holyspiritinteractive.net/columns/stevehemler/lifeslittlelearnings/27.asp

    Mitt Ryan
     
    yabberefugee likes this.
  9. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    3,782
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Well if you haven't convinced these warped people that science is not their god then you haven't proven to them that science is no ones god.

    No you can't prove the Great Flood of Noah never happened. That's really the impossibility here... you trying to prove it never happened.

    Look, the bottom line is it's apparent to intellectually honest people that nobody can prove/disprove God/Holy Bible. Since you're in the category of people who spout off they can prove something in the Bible that never happened then you are being intellectually dishonest.

    Instead of saying you can prove something never happened, you should say you have this theory/opinion why you believe it didn't happen, that would be more of an intellectually honest approach.

    Mitt Ryan
     
    yabberefugee likes this.
  10. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    3,782
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I wholeheartedly agree...the reality is that science is just an instrument/tool for man to utilize to help man to better understand this world around us that we live in, to help improve our daily lives through all the advances science makes in technological and medical breakthroughs/discoveries.

    But nonetheless, there will still be people out there who believe science is their god.

    No you can't prove that the Great Flood of Noah never happened. It's a 100% impossibility that you can prove it.

    Mitt Ryan
     
  11. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    3,782
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Yes, that's what I said.

    No, that's not the guy. Obviously you're being facetious. The guy I'm referring to got kicked/booted out of heaven because of pride. He desired to be God, not to be a servant of God.

    We Read in Scripture:

    "How you are fallen from heaven,
    O shining star, son of the morning!
    You have been thrown down to the earth,
    you who destroyed the nations of the world.
    13 For you said to yourself,
    ‘I will ascend to heaven and set my throne above God’s stars.
    I will preside on the mountain of the gods
    far away in the north.
    14 I will climb to the highest heavens
    and be like the Most High.’
    15 Instead, you will be brought down to the place of the dead,
    down to its lowest depths." ---Isaiah 14:12-15 NLT
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
  12. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2012
    Messages:
    27,561
    Likes Received:
    3,079
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Maybe the flood was the woman Noah's tears?
     
  13. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    3,782
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    48
    If you care to really know who these "serious scholars" are and their evidence of the falsehood you could do your own independent research. I've already responded to your claim and said it was false. Since you made the claim and didn't give any credible evidence to backup your claim why are you asking me for evidence?...where is your evidence that Christianity is pretty much nothing more than an amalgamation of previous pagan beliefs? Or is this just your opinion?
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2017
  14. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    7,024
    Likes Received:
    622
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Never give up do you. It's a 100% impossibility that the flood could have happened as the Bible declares. Science proves it. Hydrology proves it.

    And modern Bible students agree that Isaiah 14 is talking about a Babylonian King. But then you haven't studied the book of Isaiah have you.
     
    Saganist and Margot2 like this.
  15. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2012
    Messages:
    27,561
    Likes Received:
    3,079
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Did you know that Noah was a woman?
     
  16. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,289
    Likes Received:
    9,190
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That is a falsehood.
     
  17. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2012
    Messages:
    27,561
    Likes Received:
    3,079
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So you think that water rose 6 inches per minute for 40 days and 40 nights and covered all of the mountains on Earth? Why is there no record of such a flood in Egypt, Syria, China, France, South Africa, Mexico, Japan, Korea?
     
    JET3534 and Margot2 like this.
  18. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,289
    Likes Received:
    9,190
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Nope...my mistake, I misread the post.
     
  19. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2012
    Messages:
    27,561
    Likes Received:
    3,079
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The fairy tale is enough to drive anyone nuts. It even says that it's just a story for amusement. The only reason it exists today is because the English wrote it.
     
    Guno likes this.
  20. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    7,024
    Likes Received:
    622
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No. The story comes down from the Tanakh before Christ. And versions even earlier in other civilisations.

    The Eridu Genesis.

    "The Eridu Genesis (composed c. 2300 BCE) is the earliest description of the Great Flood, pre-dating the biblical book of Genesis, and is the tale of the good man Utnapishtim (also known as Atrahasis or Ziusudra) who builds a great boat by the will of the gods and gathers inside 'the seed of life'. The Eridu Genesis may have been the first written record of a long oral tradition of a time around 2800 BCE when the Euphrates rose high above her banks and flooded the region. Excavations at Ur by Leonard Wooley in 1922 CE revealed an eight-foot layer of silt and clay, consistent with the sediment of the Euphrates, which seemed to support the claim of a catastrophic flood in the area around 2800 BCE. Notes of the excavation taken by Wooley's assistant, Max Mallowan, however, showed the event was clearly a local, not a global, event.

    A proto-Genesis tale of the Garden has been found at Eridu in which Tagtug the Weaver (or gardener) is cursed by Enki for eating of the fruit of the forbidden tree in the garden after being told not to."
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2017
    DennisTate and Margot2 like this.
  21. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    3,782
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    48

    Only in the minds of unbelievers is it a 100% impossibility that the flood could have happened as the Bible declares.

    Science hasn't proven anything nor has hydrology. All we really have are theories/speculations/guesswork/opinions...and these are not factual where it's indisputable.

    Look here is an example of a fact that we all can agree on, where it's definitely indisputable, "We are all going to eventually die", this statement cannot be disputed, we all know it's a fact.

    But a statement such as, "It's a 100% impossibility that the flood could have happened as the Bible declares" is disputable so it cannot be considered as fact since we all can't agree that the statement is true.

    The bottom line is that science can't prove/disprove God/Holy Bible. All intellectual honest people know that to be a fact. Anyone who declares otherwise are not being intellectually honest.

    To be intellectually honest all you have to say is that you have a theory/speculation/guesswork/opinion that leads you to say it's a 100% impossibility that the flood could have happened as the Bible declares....you just can't matter of factly say it's been proven...if you do then you've proved to everyone you are not being intellectually honest.

    Are you saying all modern Bible students agree?
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2017
    Dropship likes this.
  22. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,289
    Likes Received:
    9,190
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It is 100% proven and indisputable that this planet does not and never has had enough water to cover the mountains. It is absolutely impossible for a penguin to walk to the Middle East from Antarctica. It is 100% impossible for 40 days and 40 nights of rain to inundate this entire planet in water. It is impossible to build a boat large enough to fit two of every animal on Earth and even more so for seven humans to gather the food and remove the waste of them.

    There are many more impossibilities in that story but, that will do for now.
     
    JET3534 likes this.
  23. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2012
    Messages:
    27,561
    Likes Received:
    3,079
    Trophy Points:
    113
    He probably gets his information from the movies, like the Noah film
     
  24. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    7,024
    Likes Received:
    622
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The fact is that you are ignorant of the facts of hydrology and science. It is only indisputable by those who reject reality. There is not enough water in, on (including icecaps) or above the earth. Secondly the action of water precludes any such flood from covering any hill above 220 feet.

    Half fill a bath with water. Place a solid object in the with its base on the bottom in the middle of the bath with - it's top being level with the bath rim. Now try to cover it with the water available. As you draw water from the bath the level sinks. When you pour it over the 'mountain' it runs down back into the ocean. It is only prevented from doing so by blockages such as dams. Even then when the dam is full the waters spills over, and gradually returns to the ocean. Only by adding water to the bath can you reach the 'mountain top' - and you can't add water to the earth, unless it comes from another planet or moon. All honest intellectual people know that. And the fact you can't agree is irrelevant.

    Of course there is always the possibility that god could have built a 32,000 ft high wall on the coastline of EVERY continent and island - a sort of Trumpstyle wall. I wonder how much concrete was used? . Was that the reason the earth tilted on is axis?

    Are you saying all modern Bible students agree?
    This fact is being noted in the latest editions of some Bibles and studies. Bible students are learning - you are not.
     
    JET3534 likes this.
  25. DPMartin

    DPMartin Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2017
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    28

    well you are relying on information put forth by those who weren't there. just theory derived from selective evidence that fits the theory put forth.

    in the bible ages of at least the first born were documented to be well over 800 years in many cases and its a scientific fact that those who spend time in lower gravity such as astronauts age slower therefore in the right conditions one could live quite a bit longer than 80. after the flood the ages of those born then dropped significantly until its as it is today.

    there is nobody but the witnesses that have passed the information to this generation that verifies what happened then. did they give scientific reasoning and mathematics to show how it happened? no, I don't think that was a concern of theirs at the time. but the assumption that the earth was in the same condition as to day is just that a assumption. who is to say that the earth was as large or at the least had the same gravitational pull as it has today.

    funny thing about these people that argue against belief or trust in what the bible says, out of one side of their mouth they will argue that the days of creation were not 24 hr's but will argue that the conditions or state of the earth is the same then as it is now, but still go on and on about all the things they say they know happened way back when but weren't there to witness it. the witness says that the fountains of the earth released water as well as the rains began.

    anyway even if the information from "they" is correct that there isn't enough water to cover the entire earth, there is no proof that the earth at the time of the flood wasn't of a condition (usually smaller) that would have a much lighter pull of gravity, which many researchers have found to be the main reason for aging, or at the least reason for the rate of aging. one must consider that there was a significate change in and of the earth for such a flood to happen.

    a side note if you are going to argue using scripture telling us what it says then you should read it first, going by fairy tail versions of it is lame. the flood lasted, don't hold me to it approximately 18 mouths give or take. so anything estimate to happen during that time is much longer than 40 days.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2017

Share This Page