Prosecutors charge parents of Michigan school shooting suspect

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Bowerbird, Dec 3, 2021.

  1. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I don't know WHEN it started but my kids are teenagers now and they had active shooter drills all throughout elementary and middle school. We lived in North Carolina at the time. I never get updates or photos or anything so I don't know if they are doing them in their high school here in IL. I wouldn't be shocked if they were though.

    It makes one feel kind of old to say "I remember when neighbors looked out for one another and trick-or-treating was safe and we got to ride in the back of pick-up trucks, no seat belts, car seats, helmets, noise ordinances weren't around to ban ice cream trucks and all the adults looked out for all the kids, etc.. Yeah, I guess I'm officially old now.
     
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  2. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Short answer they raised a kid that believes offing other humans is the answer to his personal problems.

    They failed to take the warming signs seriously even up to the day of the shooting. The little dude was drawing pictures of his plans, the teachers showed the parents, and the parents never even checked to see if he had a gun with him. I would say the school was negligent in this regard as well.
     
  3. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    No my link is to the American Academy of Paediatricians and it is referenced throughout x that is what the tiny numbers are

    Now after this - back on ignore
     
  4. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Watch the video in the OP the prosecutor lays it out beautifully
     
  5. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    ((Sigh))

    This might have been a hint

    upload_2021-12-5_12-22-38.jpeg

    And on the side bar s a thing called a “content list”

    https://publications.aap.org/pediat...cting-the-Pediatric?autologincheck=redirected
     
  6. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    You aren’t aware they are a lobbying group? Oh. Would you like me to back up my arguments with NRA publications? LOL

    Yes, you always put me on ignore when I point out your errors. I expect as much from people who can’t deal with truth.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2021
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  7. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    I’m not sure why I should be awed by a group no different than the NRA. I guess you are, but I’m not. Sorry. I’m open to you presenting studies you claimed exist to prove me wrong. But you won’t because we both know they don’t exist. What you are basing your posts on is the opinion of a group that lobbies Congress. And you thought their OPINION is published research. Hmmmm.
     
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  8. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    She lied. Plain and simple. The gun was locked up. That’s what the defense is saying.
     
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  9. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Ahhhh! The Trump defence - call “fake news” every time there is a story you do not like

    I very much doubt she lied - after all this is going to court and that would hurt her case
     
  10. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    How is the defenses argument fake news? Lmao what does Trump have to do with this?
     
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  11. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    :roll::roll::roll:

    I doubt my post was that difficult. You insinuated the prosecutor lied - I pointed out that Trump has influenced people to maybe mimicking his normal modus operandi in labelling inconvenient facts lies or fake news
     
  12. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    How is this an inconvenient fact. You are in fact insinuating that the defense is lying. The burden to prove guilt is on the state not on the defense so if you’re saying the fact is that the gun was not locked up you are the one that needs the proof. So prove that the gun was not locked.
     
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  13. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    What are you talking about?
    So far the only person I have quoted is the prosecutor
     
  14. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    The prosecutor that has stated zero proof that the gun was not locked. Hasn’t given a shred of evidence to suggest that. And you buy it hook line and sinker?

    The defense has said it was locked so by constitutional law (not Trump law) the prosecution must prove that statement. Secondly, there is no law that requires the gun to be locked. If there is no law broken there is no criminal charge to be had.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2021
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  15. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Makes me wonder what the culpability the school and faculty, or even local law enforcement.

    They seemed unable to stop this and completely I'll prepared.
     
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  16. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    If ignoring the drawn picture of murder was indicative of a crime the parents and the school are guilty of manslaughter because all parties allowed him to stay without searching his pack. These parents are being targeted by the anti gun lobby. If the prosecution truly believes the crap they’re putting down the principle would be in cuffs too.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2021
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  17. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Because it punishes gun owners. They'd love to punish people that have guns.
    I'm not informed on this case but this isn't a tragedy to these people it's a delightful opportunity to blame you and me for it and to preach on the street corner.
     
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  18. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    They don't want you to think it's okay to own guns they want you to be afraid.
     
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  19. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.
     
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  20. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    It's a war of attrition. That's the sole reason they charged rittenhouse.
     
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  21. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for explaining your circumstances. Again, it sounds like your parents took their responsibilities seriously.

    To be clear, I’m not at all opposed to parents keeping guns away from kids. What I’m opposed to is assuming all guns must be kept from all kids.

    By age 15 it was my responsibility to use a firearm to protect the animals we depended on for food from predation. It was not a big deal. The animals were my responsibility most of the time at that point because my dad was working out of state in those years a lot. The firearm was a minor responsibility.

    You have to remember, my dad’s and grandad’s generation were hunting meat for their families completely on their own at that age. This idea kids can’t be responsible around weapons is a recent first world phenomenon. So is the notion the parent’s job is to protect teenagers from all risks and responsibility. Real parents work from day one to instill responsibility in children to a level they can one day be independent. When kids are sheltered and protected from reality until 18 or 21 or 35 you end up with 35 year olds living in the basement—if they haven’t offed some school kids and ended up in the pokey first.
     
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  22. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    So, to recap, my claim parenting is the problem remains uncontested. There are NO studies showing good parenting cannot make teenagers responsible with firearms. If there were, @Bowerbird would post them instead of endless links to lobbyists and personal opinions of pediatricians. As usual, the premise anti gunners operate from turns out to be completely false.

    As an aside, isn’t it interesting teen killings with firearms are only noticed when white kids are killed even though black kids are FOUR times more likely to die from firearms than white kids? And this statistic is even more compelling when you realize 49% of white households have a gun while only 32% of black households do. It isn’t guns and it isn’t race. It’s how children are raised. Period.
     
  23. HurricaneDitka

    HurricaneDitka Well-Known Member

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    Why would you do something so foolish? Prosecutors lie routinely.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2021
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  24. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think this is wrong. I don't know what they should have even been charged for.
     
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  25. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    While I understand your position, it really isn't fair to overlay prior generations' exposure, access and use of weapons at that age. Our parents, grandparents and ancestors were usually married with a bunch of kids by the time they were 20 years old too. More and more people are waiting to get married, have children later, if at all, and the social climate is much, much different.

    This is not to say that you are wrong but merely to point out that society is a living, moving thing and it's changing, albeit slowly, with each new generation. I hired a young lady to babysit my kids and help with light housework. She was a straight-A student, on the Honor Roll, had a scholarship to college but she was not in any way, shape or form "bright". Not even a little bit. I've met people in their 20s and 30s that have NEVER held a job and live with their parents. I've met teenagers and 20-somethings that don't know how to use a washer or dryer. I've met people in their 30s that have absolutely no idea how females get pregnant. I've met cashiers that can't count money. I've met professional football players that can't read.

    So, we aren't talking about age, specifically. This is about how the current and most generations just don't have the social skills to interact in such a way to support the collective whole the way our parents, grandparents and others did in past generations. While technology has been a wonderful addition to our world, it has created a very large wall for the kids that grew up only knowing that. They have no patience because they can get all kinds of information in a second on the internet. They can video games with other kids almost everywhere else in the world so they aren't learning effective communication, negotiation, compromise or anything else we all learned at their ages because our mothers told us to go outside and play and come in when I call you. We were doing all kinds of exploring and learning stuff and figuring out how to engage with other people. We all grew up in a time where allowance wasn't a "given" and we were constantly reminded that money doesn't grow on trees. Many of today's kids have a sense of entitlement that they should leave school and make a ton of money straight out the gate. They know nothing about shoveling snow or raking the neighbors' lawns. We delivered newspapers. We ran errands for our elderly neighbors.

    Many. many years ago, we invited a couple over for dinner. They had a 2 year old daughter and she never spoke. I thought that was strange because the 2-year olds I knew were little Energizer Bunnies that talked constantly. After the 3rd or 4th time of engaging with them, I figured out the problem. Neither one of the little girl's parents EVER spoke to her directly. It was the strangest thing to me. I hate when adults do baby talk because it's weird but this couple NEVER talk TO their own children. Later, after she was in school, she began to talk because other kids and adults were talking to her. And this is the snapshot of what has happened with these most recent generations.

    The whole point of living in society is that we all contribute something and we get what we need from others that contribute something we don't have. You can't do that if you don't know how to effectively communicate with others. I'm not trying to tear down these younger generations. I have two kids in that subset. I have worked very hard to make sure they aren't isolated from the world in their own bubbles. We set up outings and cultural events. We took them to plays and musicals. We took them when we volunteered in our community. I'm not saying I'm the perfect parent. I'm not I work hard to ensure that I educate myself on how to effectively interact with my children to provide the support they need and opportunity to talk to me about anything and everything. I don't want them to be so scared to ask questions (the way I was brought up) that they are going off assumptions or their peers' assumptions.

    Nobody will ever be able to convince me that the kids stealing their parents' weapon(s) and killing people had that window of opportunity.

    And, it takes me back to my refrain, with rights comes responsibilities.
     

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