Putin Won't have it! WW2 was Wests' fault. Hitler was created and pushed to attack Russia.

That’s a credit to America’s industrial might, which ultimately contributed to the allied victory in WW2. I think we might differ on our opinions on what led up to WW2, but in the end we can agree on what helped win that horrible war. I’m not not going to name drop any posters on this thread, but for the historical illiterates that claim that America contributed nothing to WW2, all we have to do is take a look at the end result of 1945. There were only two countries left standing, the USSR and America. That wouldn’t have been the case if America did nothing during WW2.

 

I dunno about Hitler having been directed to attack the USSR, but he was factually funded by 'the West' including the Brittish Royal Family and large American corporations, sime of which continued to surreptitiously supply material (like fuel additives) even after we were at war with the Nazi's.

Given that the US and UK (and several other nations that generally are considered 'the west') jointly landed a force in Arkhangelsk in 1918 in a (miserably failed) attempt to thwart the Bolshevik revolution, it wouldn't surprise me at all if part of funding the Nazi's was an agenda targetting the SU.

 

Many Americans died in the Pacific theatre. The stories of Iwa Jima, Saipan and such
are quite dreadful. I read a book from a Japanese survivor - he expressed his admiration
for the bravery of the Americans. Forget industrial and technological stuff - just bravery
alone was surprising to him.

 

Do you have an issue with "who started" WW2? I don't.
America provoked Japan,sure
mainly because Japan invaded China
and then Japan attacked SE Asia and America.

Hitler and Stalin began the European war.
I don't buy all that Versailles stuff - there was no excuse
in 1939 for Germany to attack Poland. Let alone Russia.

 

Being a vet myself, I would never take away the sacrifice, and heroism that was demonstrated by our greatness generation. But, the cold hard reality is that WW2 was a forgone conclusion. Industry, and numbers matter, and both factors won that war.

 

For anyone who would doubt that Russia today is an enemy of the USA, this is proof positive.

The horrendous death toll of the Soviet army at the hands of Hitler's forces was the fault of one man and one man only, Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin.

Before and during the war Stalin's murderous insanity saw countless Russian military leaders, scientists, engineers and countless innocents murdered for suspicion of being anti-Stalin.Entire families would be rounded up and executed on the slimmest of rumors. By the time war with Germany began, the Soviet military was a leadership disaster. It took a long and brutal fight to recover from Stalin's purges until they had an army capable of destroying the Nazis.

 

I don’t see the American response to Japanese imperialism as a provocation. The US was in no way obliged to to supply war materiel to the Empire of Japan while they expanded into Manchuria, and Indochina. A embargo was the right thing to do. As far as Europe goes, yes Nazi Germany is ultimately responsible for starting ww2, but ignoring the chain of events that led up to that point is short sighted, and ultimately a denial of historical fact.

 

That's ridiculous! The only reason the nationalist Nazi Party came into being, was to fight the internationalism of communism - which at that time was a rising political force in all countries - and especially in Germany during the depression. Since many Jews were communists and therefore internationalists, was probably the main reason the Nazis hated the Jews.

Here are the words in English of the Nazi Hymn. Note the reference to the communists.

English Translation (literal)

Flag high, ranks closed,
The S.A. marches with silent solid steps.
Comrades shot by the red front and reactionaries (communists)
March in spirit with us in our ranks.

The street free for the brown battalions,
The street free for the Storm Troopers.
Millions, full of hope, look up at the swastika;
The day breaks for freedom and for bread.

For the last time the call will now be blown;
For the struggle now we all stand ready.
Soon will fly Hitler-flags over every street;
Slavery will last only a short time longer.

Flag high, ranks closed,
The S.A. marches with silent solid steps.
Comrades shot by the red front and reaction
March in spirit with us in our ranks. ​

What I find interesting is the similarity in the melody between the beautiful Christian Hymn 'How Great Thou Art', which is a tribute to God's Greatness and His Will, and the Nazi Hymn, which is a militaristic tribute to man's own will and what he can do. Thus the Nazi swastika, the crooked Cross.

 

Henry Ford gave hitler 10,000 reichmarks for his birthday every year
Ans Siemens built ball bearings for German fighter planes when Curtis Wright's p 40 production was slowed because of a lack of ball bearings.

 

And Poland invaded Czechoslovakia just like Germany.

 

For sure. But in 1939 I doubt Hitler was reacting to events of the first world war.
Certainly not in any significant way. He could have reclaimed Polish land claimed
by Germany - but nothing "explains" his take over of the whole of Poland, or of
France for that matter. Hitler was driven by Nazi ideology - and there were no Nazis
in 1914.
You could find some causal chain for every war in history. And these will be milked
by every war monger.

nb it has been said that Japan need not have worried all that much about the
oil embargo - she could still get oil from the British.

 

Gets complicated. I never knew that.
One has to tease out the truth from the facts.
I suppose Poland and Hungary taking bits out of the Checks
wasn't quite in the same league as Hitler overrunning Europe.
Seems Poland and Hungry had some historic claim they wanted
settled - just like Russia today. But Hitler/Stalin went beyond
some historic redress to outright imperial aggression.

So they are all wrong, but some are a lot more wrong than others.

 

We fought Germany because of the sinking of the Lusitania. There were many Americans on board, and they were warned by the German embassy not to sail, and that the ship might be torpedoed. Our government was sending arms to Britain and the Lusitania was packed with explosives. That was proven recently when the wreckage was examined. It's sister ship was torpedoed 3 times, and yet it didn't sink.

I don't doubt that the British passed word to the Germans that the ship was carrying explosives, so that we would enter the war. Up until then the sentiments of the Americans were with the Germans. Not only were they a large part of the population, but the Irish also hated the British. After the sinking of the ship, the anti German propaganda went all out.

The German business' in this country went through a 'crystalnacht', they stopped speaking German, and began to anglicize their last names.

 

And before the Nazis were called National Socialists (hence the red in the flag)
they were called National Bolsheviks.
And Lenin gave his blessing to the Fascists - they were all in the same Socialist
swamp.
Worse - Nazis got their ideas about controlling people of inferior race from the
American Democrat policies towards blacks.

And in the early days Nazis weren't the war mongering conquerors and murderers
they became in 1939. Germany was still seen as being a civil, Western society.
And one day the Nazis would be de-fanged or gone.

 

With Stalin it wasn't Russian imperialism, but the 'internationalist' system of the Soviet Union. They didn't believe in nations.

 

Sure, National Socialism (formerly National Bolshevism) versus International Socialism.
But to get rid of nations you will have to destroy those nations. Just as making people
"equal" means killing those who are richer.

 

Stalin was not a very nice man, and I'm sure the Gulags of the Soviet Union were packed, but what does the Soviet Union have to do with the Russian Federation or the US? More accurate would be that we fear Russia's potential as a competitor since it controls 30% of the world's minerals, and that's why we decided to make them an enemy.

Actually it took 20 years for the Soviet Union to recover economically from the revolution, and as far as industries and the USSR's war machine was concerned, Stalin did wonders - otherwise they would not have won the war. The Nazis thought that the USSR had 5,000 tanks, and they turned out to be 35,000. and they were better than the German ones.

As for Moscow, the Kremlin was completely camouflaged so that it didn't suffer any damage from bombs.. The walls surrounding it looked like apartment buildings, and Red Square looked like anything but.

 

That's why America hates Australia and Canada. These nations are competitors for their beef
and grain, and minerals, gas and oil. Something similar has happened with Europe.
And then of course, there's the industrial might of post-war Japan. That's why Japan
today is an enemy.
Would you consider me correct?

 

What reason would the US have to go to war? We weren't attacked by Germany, so why in the world would Americans want to send their sons to die?

As for the Jews, they weren't the only people slaughtered in the war. Maybe others weren't killed in gas chambers, but they were killed by bombs and mostly through famine - and it was deliberate. The food was taken away and sent to Germany. Audrey Hepburn said she had to eat tulip bulbs to survive. In Leningrad over a million died from famine during the siege - and that's only the tip of the iceberg. Other than the 20 million Russian civilians, you have Poland, Czechoslovakia, Serbia, Greece.

 

You're joking of course. The difference is in the amount of natural resources. With 30% you can control the world someday, and that is what the US fears. The Russians get furious, because on the maps they make Russia appear even larger than what it really is. Why, if not to arouse fear in others?

 

Germany's army was nothing when they marched into the Rhineland and Hitler gave orders for the soldiers to retreat if France fires a shot - but France didn't. Everyone thought that would be it with Hitler, and he wouldn't go any further - but he did.

I guess it was wishful thinking on the part of England and France because they didn't want war, so they kept believing Hitler's lies.

 

The tanks that were one of the main forces in the WW2 that were produced in Soviet Union, like T-34 were much better than the tanks that were supplied by the US.
"Would" does not work in this contect. You did not.
As for the rest, noone says the you owe something to Russia for the war.

 

That makes clear who started the war, and that was not Stalin. As for the pact, western countries have their agreements long before Stalin did it. Specifically, the leaders of the UK and France in Munchen.

 

Yes, but a large portion of the rest of the world's resources are in Africa, Asia, the
Middle East and Australia.
According to your logic this makes us all natural enemies of America.
Can't understand why the US doesn't nuke Japan again, and China too as these
nations are also enemies of America by virtue of their industrial prowess.
Personally I think many natural resources don't command the same power anymore.
Certainly a nation doesn't appear to be an enemy because it commands such things.
And I thought Russia appears bigger because of the type of map projection we use.
That's a worry for us Aussies - we command a large portion of Antarctica, and the
nefarious map makers have made that continent super size too.

 

Looks like you have no idea how everything went on at the begining of the war. If you can not read books, maybe you can read read internet sites and educate yourself?:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II