Quit (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)ing about the rich

And yet it should be pointed out that we have a president who's even more whacko than the EPA. The Keystone pipeline was approved by the EPA, but President Empty-chair stopped it service to the most whacked out fringe kook environmentalist interests. The Sierra Club runs this country.

 

you may be right... freeing up these in-house resources could provide this economy with a boost but alternative energy should still be on the plate, it could one day take off but will require innovation. Innovation and technological advances are what really changes the economy in the long run... There needs to be continued investment in the advancement of science and technology...

an excerpt from an article:
"Walmart is working towards its goal of achieving energy self sufficiency via power generated from its renewable power generation sources. We believe that Walmart has got a good opportunity to expand and accelerate its solar power initiative program in the U.S. In addition to creating jobs and protecting the environment, these solar projects have also reduced costs for businesses by lowering power bills."

green energy, not all that hopeless..

 

Not really. The Left is fond of calling write-offs for business and speculation losses as "subsidies" as if the government is handing them money instead of oil companies simply not paying taxes on losses, which all businesses do.

 

The Canadians have decided it makes sense to diversify their energy buyers so the Keystone oil is going to China instead of America. We can thank the asshat Obama for that.

The American standard of living is going to decline. It will be possible to blame environmentalism for the decline.

I'm a Californian. The environmentalists out here have things tied down tighter than the skin on a drum.

But they don't seem to realize that it is possible to reach the incipient Latino majority by telling them social justice demands new high paying jobs for Latinos...and development of California's natural resources is the only way to bring good paying jobs to their people.

Thus, environmentalists will be brought into conflict with a new brown majority that is not well educated, but which is willing to work hard. The idea is to rip the leftist coalition apart.

 

Walmart kills American industrial jobs by buying cheap stuff from nonunionized Chinese. If Walmart tries to go solar it can be beaten down.

America needs a comprehensive energy plan that fires on all cylinders. But that requires us all to work together. I don't see that happening.

Conservative experience has been that leftists don't act in good faith when they negotiate. This means there is no sense in negotiating.

 

as posted in another thread:

case in point? government subsidies/funding for in alternative energy, green energy is important. 'Drill Drill Drill' doesn't encourage innovation... it's the easy way out. Many thought shale gas was never gonna work but it finally did... thanks in part for the government's investment.

 

Really. Where and when did government subsidize shale speculations?

 

"Drill baby drill"

Translation?

I can make a lot of money drilling (says the fat cat).

 

It's hard for a poor person to become rich, but not just because they are poor. But because many won't do what it takes to become rich, or even well off. They won't finish school, go to college. They won't sacrifice and do the things needed to be rich. They just want to skate by
or instead of saving or investing their money, they go out and blow it on anything they want.

I never worried about being rich. All I wanted out of life was a good job, be able to support my family, have a home, car and be able to have a little left over to save, invest and do some of the things I like to do. I never tried to keep up with the Jones, or buy the latest gagets on the market. I worked hard all my life and never missed more than a couple of weeks work in my life. I am happy. I could care less how much the rich have.

Most of the time, life is what you make of it. What your willing to do to get ahead. The choices you make.

 

Sure it does. When that product is made here, you not only support those plant jobs, but you support all those companies that supply parts to that plant. The steel company, the plastic company, the nut and bolt maker. The truck drivers that deliver those parts and the finished product. The store that sells that product. Then there are the restaurants that feed those factory workers. Grocery stores that they buy food from. They pay taxes that support office workers, police and firemen. They buy furniture, go on vacation, buy cloths. Those factory jobs ripple all through our economy.

In last month's Consumer Report, they compared name brand products to store brand products and most store brand products were as good as and some even better than the name brands. Not true with all products. But most store brand products are made in America, where many name brands are made abroad. So it would pay you to buy at least one store brand and compare it to the name brand your buying now. If you like it, you'll not only save money, but support American jobs. Try buying a quart of Kroger ice cream and compare it to Bryers ice cream. You'll never buy Bryers again. Colgate makes a brand of tooth past made in Mexico. Crest makes the same kind, made here and it sells for the same price.

 

Just stop with your ad hominem BS.

We disagree on these matters Albert; just leave it there; please.

 

That may be true to some degree Albert, I'm not political genius and not as educated as some. But I can recognize your BS pretty well. And you are foolish if you believe/imagine I cannot much of it.

BTW, you do have the option of breaking down that "classical" knowledge for others, if you please. That would be nice on your part.

Other than that, I'll keep on sharing my non-classical or common view of things as an American; that is whether you accept it or not. You've got something to say and I do too. Everyone is not going to say what you want them to say in the way you want them to say it; that is reality... live with it.

See you around to threads.

 

Obama has done more than that. BTW, what Obama has done for this economy is typically underrated by most on the Right. Dodd-Frank was a step, but not nearly powerful enough; America needs even MORE of such laws.

You're wrong, IMO. Health care IS THE BALL. It is the biggest economic issue for scores of Americans; there is no getting around that.

Considering Republican obstruction being what it was (is)... I think President Obama made the proper choice. This nation required whatever changes and improvements it could muster concerning healthcare. And we really need to move on to SINGLE PAYER. Not only the wealthy should have the best healthcare.

If far-Right Republicans, Tea Party and other obstructionists had their way, Obama would not have passed anything. In light of all that Mr. Obama and Democrats have accomplished in the current political arena... he is more than capable as President. After all, the stated goal of Republicans was not to legislate... but to defeat President Obama. (Treasonous Jerks!!)

That was then, this is now. It would be nice if the templates of the past we all have in our heads were so reliably adhere to... but we are dealing with human beings in the here/now. Lessons learned should lead to better decisions going forward.

 

But that does not mean Americans cannot and have not worked together.

You and MILLIONS OF OTHERS experience that amalgam or mosaic of people/cultures daily, yet you speak as if there is zero or poor cohesion. Come on, your premise is specious.

 

What has happened, is that many have been lulled into believing that the wealthiest people influencing American policy, are truly benevolent and looking out for their best interests. In contrast to that, most minorities had held such promises by the economic elite tentatively... implicit trust, would be a game for 'suckers'.

Even so, any who are poorly educated are disadvantaged; and putting the money (properly distributing the wealth) so that people aren't poor, uneducated or desperate would likely be an improvement. Would it not?

 

There are concerns about that "pipeline" which you didn't care to address. Really, it isn't the best idea to come along.

 

Don't you understand that if I come up with an idea, and the wealth necessary to implement that idea. The majority of the wealth left over after labor costs, etc IS MINE. It is private property and isn't subject to "proper distribution". I own the factory, I own the products made in that factory and I (*)(*)(*)(*) well own the workers that work there for the 8 hours a day they are there as part of the agreement THEY made with me. Nothing in the employment contract says those workers are entitled to use Government to steal my private property.

Private wealth is not a public resource. It is not public money it is private property. Why can't you SEE that???

 

I think the investments we decide to make as a nation are debatable. Spending good money on healthcare is worth it. You aren't changing my mind about that.

Some things aren't just about YOU. The healthcare system isn't YOURS and WON'T BE YOURS. (Got it?)

The healthcare system should have some 'private' aspects to it, but not all of it should be privately financed. Single Payer is the way to go, because just like our highway and defense system (for example)... it isn't something that is best handled in a completely private manner. If ALL or most are paying into the system, the cost is spread out more equally, making more medical care affordable all Americans. Now, you may not WANT that, but I and millions of others DO want that.

Still, you don't own their lives. And there are ways you may WANT to affect their lives, which you cannot... because people have basic human rights in this nation. Workers aren't slaves. Maybe you want to open a business in China?

You are full of it man; there have to be limits upon what they/you would agree to. You as an employer have SOME autonomy, but you cannot possess absolute autonomy over other human beings (even if they work for you). Even as a military member, people are afforded certain rights and working conditions (though certainly not always pleasant).

Look, YOU run your business as you wish within the confines of the LAW; we all live accordingly. But what I'm saying is that the healthcare system isn't going to be its best, being EXCLUSIVELY FOR PROFIT. And I promise you, you aren't changing my mind about that... because I've seen what has been and I'm looking forward.

I know. But the Common Wealth is just as important as your private wealth may be. That is a fact.

I see that what we can/should do as a COLLECTIVE... is something you/I cannot do as PRIVATE citizens.

 

My first point is you do not own the full value of your worker's labor (that's called slavery) so the percentage of the value of that labor is up for debate based both on market forces, whether there is a union, and social policy. You could argue that all of that should be reflected in the labor cost but in a global economy jacking your up-front price of your product doesn't make sense.

My second point is that if you are realizing 80% of the value as a result, it shouldn't be wrong for the government to tax you personally on that extra value you have squeezed out through non-unionization and global labor competition, especially if your second factory is located in China. Nothing in your contract with your government (it's called citizenship) says you can default on your obligations to the well-being of the society you live in. Taxes are not the theft of private property; excessive or misused taxes may be theft.

But guess what, rich owner of my two hypothetical factories? Due to numerous tax loopholes and offshore banking, your taxes on your profits have actually been going down and you've been getting to keep more of your profits. SO WHAT THE H - - L ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT!

 

Johnny, maybe we should just leave each other alone. I suggest we both adopt that approach because nothing is being accomplished for either one of us by continuing an exchange. What do you think?

 

I disagree (respectfully as you're a fellow conservative). I think it makes very little difference. When products that could be made cheaper overseas are forced to be made here, the manufacture phase of the product, which is only the first phase, becomes more expensive and that expense rolls over to the final price, leading to inflation and a reduction in consumer buying power. Even with the transition of some items being made overseas, we've never had a job shortage until President Empty-chair took office. Jobs aren't lost by free trade, they're lost by incompetent economic decisions. In a functional, unhampered market, jobs that disappear in one area are quickly replaced in another. We do less manufacturing and more technology, and unemployment remains low even with a transient workforce as long as Republicans are in charge. The bigger picture is to re-white the White House (yes I said that) and get us back to fiscal sanity. The jobs will then return.

 

Years ago, people wanted to be rich. Today, the left wants the rich to be poor to make the poor feel better.

 

I'm not for forcing companies to manufacture here. I just think we were wrong in making it soooo easy for them to leave through NAFTA and Free Trade. I have to also disagree, respectfully. We haven't made out in these trade agreements. We have lost thousands of companies, along with millions of middle class jobs and for the biggest part, what we replaced them with are jobs that pays much less than what people were making, along with less benefits.

Our trade surplus with Mexico has turned into a huge deficit and we have made China into what will soon be the next superpower. They and India have prospered so well, China now sells more vehicles than the US and India is catching up. With all their vehicles and factories, they have put a strain on oil supplies causing fuel prices here to double.

China has become so rich that we now depend on them to buy our bonds to keep us out of bankruptcy The new Green industries we were counting on to create more good jobs and help us cut down on imported oil have been stolen by China, or gone bankrupt trying to compete with them.

We have countries like China and S. Korea that are intent on taking over some of our biggest industries. S. Korea with their major appliances, which has driven two Whirlpool factories to Mexico just this year in order to compete with Samsung and LG's big price cutting strategy. China wants to take over our Green jobs and is also working to be in direct competition with Boeing, soon to launch their first commercial aircraft with the help of GE which just built a plant in China and partnered up with a Chinese company to supply engines to those new planes.

Many companies that move to China are required to take on a Chinese partner. Then the partner steals the technology from the American company and later starts up their own company in direct competition with the American company.

I don't see anywhere where we have made out with NAFTA or Free Trade under the conditions they were negotiated. We are a shell of a nation that we used to be.

 

Answer: We stole the land from the occupiers of the land, after killing most of them. That how the "market" works??? PinkSlip 2012 will..........