Ron Paul's response to Russian Sanctions

Ron Paul? Not sure what that has to do with this. You made a claim, but provided no argument to back it up.

 

Central banking and FIAT money have been around since the 11th century. There is nothing modern or innovative about it. It's just a monopolistic racket erected by greedy bankers and corrupt politicians.

 

You insult other posters constantly.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_central_banking_in_the_United_States#1837–1862:_"Free_Banking"_Era

Not a whole lot of success there.
Wanna try again?

 

No they didn’t. In previous post I provided the backup. Can you backup your claim?

 

The "intelligence community" ARE liars.

 

Who said fiat currency is new or innovative?

 

US real GDP growth between 1790 and 1912 (the pre-fed era) was averaging 4.15% per year. Sounds pretty successful to me.

 

All you did was provide one snippet of data that showed a higher failure rate for banks. So what? How does that prove that competing currencies didn't work? Answer: It doesn't.

 

You cite the fed as if it were unique or something. It's not. It's just the same old monopolistic racket that the Chinese invented in the 11th century.

 

I did not insult you. You were the one calling someone Ron Paul an idiot on the economy/currency/debt when 1) you have not given any valid evidence back up this claim and 2) You have made demonstrably false claims in relation to the currency/debt.

You are forgiven for 2 - but not for 1. Sitting in the peanut gallery shouting "Idiot, Idiot" without explanation of why that claim is true is both fallacy and not an argument for anything.

Should we sit around here and go "Trump is an idiot" no "Hillary is an Idiot" no "Trump is and Idiot" no "Hillary is an idiot".

Would you not claim that those who want to sit around and do nothing but that back and forth are idiots ?

 

The federal and congressional intelligence and national security groups that have stated that Russia interfered in the election:

1. Central Intelligence Agency

2. Office of the Director of National Intelligence

3. F.B.I.

4. National Security Agency

5. Justice Department

6. Department of Homeland Security

7. House Intelligence Committee

8. Senate Intelligence Committee


Do give the ones that didnt come to this conclusion.

Yes he was, he was already a bloody dictator before the civil war erupted.

Part of the reason why there was a civil war was that assad (like his father) reacted in the only way he knows on peacefull protests: by heavy handed force and repression killing several civilians.

If you do that by dropping bombs on a village without knowing who or what you hit you are a war criminal.

Assad is brutal and bloody dictator, always has been and always will be.

Doesn really matter , thats what started this round of unrest in ukraine: russia trying to keep its sphere of influence around itself intact.

That was never threatened BS excuse of russia to be able to annex crimea.

No it doesnt, attacking might just be propaganda campaign or hacking for example. Now you are trying with semantics to downplay russia's role.

This happened, russia has been doing this for a while and keeps doing this. Sanctions are perfectly normal and justified in such a case.

It is a strawman, trying to make the whole argument into 'russians elected trump'. Thats not the issue here, and for the most part never was.

And that artcile contains just questions and suspicions.

Look either its a sort of grand conspiracy where a lot of people into those agencys have been involved and even after a change of power somehow they evaded any real evidence or link to show this.

Or its russia (who just like every other mayor power) tried to influence US elections and cause chaos for its own intrest.

Ochams razor .

 

Yes, and thank goodness they didn't, as centralized banking has helped foster the most sustainable successful economies in history.

 

As are all people. But in this case, there is wide ranging consensus among all the intelligence agencies and private entities that have done the work. So it is safe and correct to say they are not lying, in this case.

 

What does any of this have to do with the topic ?

 

Please back this up with credible link.
And 1790-1912 is 122 years. During that time the country went through numerous wars, civil war and enormous geographical expansion. Oh, and population exploded.

Also, that’s wasn’t really the time of competing currencies - state laws required all banks that issue bank notes to back them up with gold or precious metals. In essence, gold and silver were the currency with just different papers representing them. You can have one bank note with a logo of one bank that’s pegged to an ounce of gold and another bank note with a logo of another bank that’s pegged to an ounce of gold. What are you really using for money? Gold! Does 1 ounce of gold in bank A competes with 1 ounce of gold in Bank B?
You want to know the truth why this stopped? Because many banks cheated and each bank note was worth less than it’s nominal value. As it stated in my previous posts quote, average lifespan of a bank at that time was mere 5 years.

 

We are discussing how credible Ron Paul is, and how deranged his proposals and ideas are.

 

What is feckless is the plethora of fallacy, falsehood in your post - followed by demonization of the messenger. Color me not surprised

1) our intelligence community are known liars. In 2013 became legal for our intelligence community to create and disseminate propaganda on US citizens - how crazy is that ?
2) The "the entire intelligence community" claim is a known lie - we do not even need to go outside this example to show what feckless liars the intelligence community political and bureaucratic pundits are.
3) Not only was it not the "entire intelligence community" - as was claimed by the liars on countless occasions - and backed up by MSM clown show - the group that did the analysis was "hand picked" from CIA/NSA/FBI -by someone who is a known liar - lied to congress (Felony 1) about en mass spying on US citizens (Felony 2) - someone with an agenda.
4) There are few things that are more anti american than demonizing someone for pointing out propaganda and lies within out Gov't as "Pro dictator".

http://jackmatlock.com/2018/06/musi...unity-russian-interference-and-due-diligence/

 

No we are not - we are discussing how credible Ron Paul's claims are. You are engaging in fallacy "Ad Hom" Attacking the person rather than the argument.

Perhaps Ron Paul did get something wrong ( not that you have shown this but even if it were true) in relation to economics/monetary policy. That does not make his comments in relation to "THE TOPIC" false.

Trump has told a number of lies - does this make everything that comes out his mouth false ? Do you have an example of Ron Paul telling an outright lie ? How much more credible does that make him over Trump - or the Establishment propaganda pundits and MSM propagandists?

Name one claim by Ron Paul in the OP that you think is false ?

 

The easiest one is Ukraine. The US did not take a chunk of territory in Ukraine, nor did it cause separatism. Therefore his claims of hypocrisy are false.
He is just a deranged old man who doesn’t seem to be able to think, pseudo-intellectual.

 

He claims, Paul, that we have the evidence, on tape, which can be heard on you tube that reveals US involvement in the change of gov't there, even as the same gov't denies it! As well as people like yourself.

And it is once again evidence of what the US, our intel, does. In regards to other nations. Are you just ignoring this, or what?

Ron Paul has more honesty on his little fingernail than perhaps the average partisan politician. He has never been known to be a liar, an intentional deceiver. And that matters. It has relevance and you seem to want to attempt to negate that! And you cannot factually do it.

But what is a fact is the US involvement in ousting an elected president of ukraine, and we even voiced who we wanted to replace him, even before this happened in that nation.

You don't seem to have even one good leg go stand on.

 

Answer this question: did the United States annex part of Ukrainian territory?
Yes or No?

 

You give no back up for this claim but, regardless.
Did you read the link presented ? How many of these agencies reviewed the evidence - or did they just fall in line with the Establishment pundits ..

Did you read the link given you .. if you had you would know that there was dissent in the intelligence community. Lastly - there is a difference between saying "Russia interfered" - referring to the Facebook Ads - and claiming that Russia did the hacking. You are moving the goal posts.

Now you are moving the goal posts again. You claimed "war crimes". Being a dictator - bloody or otherwise - does not justify arming and supporting a proxy army made up of Al Qaeda and the Islamist Jihadists who went on to form the modern incarnation of ISIS.. and act which led to the worst humanitarian crisis so far this decade 500,000 dead and counting, the refugee crisis, and the rise of the modern incarnation of ISIS

1) You mean like China does, or Israel is doing ?
2) What civilians were killed during the "Peaceful Protests" in Syria ? What do you know about the protest movement in Syria ? In the beginning there were "moderates" in the protest movement. The extremists quickly took over. In one case - probably the case you are referring to - the Islamist's started shooting - and they killed a number of them - security and police that were stationed at the protests.
3) This was not a Civil War .. it was a rebel insurgency.
4) So Assad is a bloody dictator - what about the people of Syria who fight for Assad. Why is it that they fight for him ? Do they not have a say in whether or not some foreign actor arms terrorists in their nation. It is the people who suffer - not Assad. You are in a lost argument.

This is a falsehood - made up nonsense for which you have no proof - and nor is there any because this was not happening.
Second . what part of we drop bombs and kill civilians in wars as well.
Third - you are moving the goalposts again.. Assad was not dropping bombs on city prior the rebel insurgency waging war.
.

Of course it was an issue. Not realizing this shows your lack of understanding. All you are doing is reciting state propaganda.

1) that is not the argument being made and 2) that Russia meddled in our elections is a big part of it.

What exactly do you think the issue is ?

No it doesn't ... this is a false characterization. Paul points out a few specific lies and brings up other issues.

Why are you talking conspiracy ? Are you that naive that you do not realize that the Establishment (elite politicians and bureaucrats) has an agenda ? There is a difference.

Have you never studied the Rush to war in Iraq and how many agencies were involved in that fiasco ? Do you think things have changed since then ? Do you not realize that then the agenda comes down from on high - there is huge pressure to not contradict that agenda ?

It is not thing to be naive - it is another to take out of your backside about things you have no knowledge of - spouting State Propaganda as if this propaganda did not exist.

 

Did the US meddle in Ukraine, affecting a coup being ran, and the killing and violence that has been the rule of the day since that time? Yes or No. And if it has any relevance at all, to the Crimeans voting to be a part of russia? Without invasion by russia, and without warfare, as we did in the middle east?

Answer that, but I will not making it dependent upon answering your question. The US does not usually take over another nation's territory, we operate in a totally different manner. We try to choose who will rule a nation, and will even help in running a coup against an elected gov't. It is our history. So, no, we do not annex, or allow a people in an area to choose by a vote. Russia indeed did that in order to protect and maintain a long standing port for its navy. And it was as predictable as the sunrise, given what is at stake for russian interests. And given russian's history with crimea, and the importance of that port, we knew it would happen if Ukraine had a coup and a civil war. And we still meddled anyways.

So context has relevance on this issue. It does not make what russia did "right" but is does make it understandable as to why they agreed with a vote, given the ukraine was unstable, risking national interests of russia.

And you can bet your bippy that if a nation that we had a strategic asset in place, was threatened by a coup, we would have sent in our own military to take out that coup, and maintain the status quo which would have maintained our strategic interests in that nation. To think otherwise is just being naive. For that is how my nation operates, how it rolls.

If you really want to see how reality operates when it comes to my nation, the US, get an education on reality and read, Confessions of an Economic Hit Man. It lays out how we operate, via our CIA, NGOs, and other intel, when it comes to meddling in the affairs of other nations. Apparently, going by the book, we sent in the Jackals, as the next to last resort, before we will send in our military. Well, the jackals were successful in Ukraine, so no need for our military in another police action or war.

Again, we generally do not annex lands, that was once ours, for we have another means of operation. Now, if the means are the most important, then that is one thing, but if the means is wrong, then that is all that has importance, IMO. We were wrong in meddling, helping to take down an elected president, by a coup, and russia was wrong in accepting the vote of the crimeans. But if we had not done our deeds, russia would not have done what they did.

Of course bring this down to a personal level, if I had not bi**h, slapped you, then you would not have knocked me out with a real, fist punch to the jaw. If I had not slapped you, you would have never knocked me on my old arse. And of course, I could say, hell, I only slapped you, first, and that did not warrant you knocking me out! So you are the bad guy here and met aggression using too much force! When you should have just slapped me back, to keep it equal. Except, that isn't how reality generally works. And what our reality is, does have relevance.

And yet, being fairly intelligent and grounded in reality, I knew damn well what my b***h slap to the side of your face would cause you to do! I could lie and deny it, of course, and that too is how the US operates. Not like my nation actually adheres to right and wrong and especially international law that our wiser americans long ago helped to write.

I say if we want to point fingers at other nations, we must first point at ourselves and clean up our own act. Or as the good book says, get the log out of our eyes, before we try to get the mote out of the other person's eye. If unless, you think the US should always be above morality, ethics and common sense as a nation. For that is how we have acted for decades, at least post ww2.

Last point to bring this home. It does not matter to me if a nation acts overtly or covertly(using our CIA, military, and NGOs) when it comes to taking down a gov't of another nation, in the interests of our elites. I am against both the overt and the covert. And I make little distinction between the two, given what is involved. For if we use the covert, we are still operating in our "national interests" or "security interests". And these days, those interests are coincidently meshing with the interests of some elites up at the top and their own profits. And not meshing with the best self interests of the 300 million plus average americans. Yes, such a coincidence!

So what potential gains would be seen by western elites, by taking down an elected president in Ukraine? Yes, I have read there are some. And have no doubt that these exist.

IMO, the reality here is not something you are familiar with or recognize, for whatever reason. I could of course be wrong in this opinion.

 

No one said US took a chuck of territory in Ukraine. Why do you start with this nonsense claim. The hypocrisy is based on the fact that we meddled in the democratic process in Ukraine.

You then state "nor did it cause separatism" - you have no clue what the coup in Ukraine did or didn't do so quit pretending otherwise.

You are the one making deranged claims and claims backed up with nothing. There is nothing deranged about Paul's claims.

What is deranged is Menendez wanting to put Russia on the State Sponsor of Terror list on the basis of stuff - all of which we are guilty of.

1) The Kremlin continues to attack our democracy,

How is the Kremlin continuing to "Attack" our democracy. Regardless - we are the biggest "attackers" of the democratic process of other nations on the planet. How does this make us or Russia a "State sponsor of Terrorism" ?

2)support a war criminal in Syria, and

We support Saudi Arabia (who is committing countless war crimes at least equal to and in fact worse than anything Assad did) How does this make us or Russia a "State sponsor of Terrorism" ?

Russia and Assad were fighting the terrorists (Al Qaeda/ISIS and others) - are you seriously going to try to deny this ?

3) violate Ukraine’s sovereignty.”

How does Russia annexing Crimea (which was done on the basis of popular vote) -or the US annexing Kosovo (setting precedent btw) make Russia or us "State Sponsors of Terrorism"