Rubio and gang of 8 unveil bipartisan immigration plan.

The Bush's 2007 overhaul of immigration policy that would have gone a long way to earning a respectable share of the vote of Hispanic Americans for the GOP was killed by Senate Republicans - 12 yeas, 37 nays.

The prissy Republican opposition to comprehensive reform is now fizzling faster than a Reince Priebus feeler for a Dubya Bush testimonial. (Or an offending whoopee cushion at an NRA hoedown, if you prefer.) Having been right when most have been wrong is the quickest way to earn enmity in Washington, as Chuck Hagel is now affirming.

Today's MarketWatch, Wall Street Journal:

 

Most of the article you posted seems to be arguing an entirely different point than what you're arguing in this thread. Silicon Valley and other high tech employers would like to have more H1-B visas because they need foreign technically trained workers that our schools can't provide in enough numbers. I agree, and think our entire immigration system needs to be revamped into a point system like Canada has that would emphasize education and technical skills; things our economy needs. In fact the Republicans had a bill to allow more H1-B Visas last December that the Dems killed.

I don't think a 21st century economy needs to import millions of people who are effectively peasants for manual labor. Instead of trying to depress low income wages for decades by encouraging illegal immigration maybe we could tighten up the border so those wages would rise and employ low income Americans?

 

Nice post........there are two completely different immigration debates: legal immigration and Hispanic illegal immigration. We need to facilitate the immigration of high skill, high end immigrants who will not be a drain on the social service, education and medical systems. On the other hand we need to discourage the immigration of room temperature IQ Hispanics who drain our economy......

 

So if they paid out bucketloads of welfare their entire population would be employed, hows that been working out in the US? If welfare and the US system is the answer to full employment for unlimited people why do you have so many unemployed? Ill tell you why, simply because it does not work if it did the entire West could have full employment and jobs for the rest of the world, there would be no poverty in the entire world.

Benefits paid for by the citizens given to new immigrants is related to immigration. I can tell you studies in Australia show refugees for example after 5 years 80%+ will be almost entirely on handouts to survive. How does an illegal negotiate a min wage? They work for whats offered or they dont, its pretty simple.

You want open borders right, it cant be any other way if you advocate anyone that can get there be made legal or wise its would discrimination right? So what country on the planet has this open border policy and all its citizens doing so exceptionally well? Inside the liberals head space is the only place this utopia exists right?

If they dont want the welfare why the big push to make them legal, use a work permit system. If they can line up work come into the country legally on a permit, if/when that employment stops they leave. Or make it so immigrants dont get access to welfare for 15 years - see how many rock up now if these systems/ laws were in place.

How do you know how much illegals are paid? I find it hard to believe there would data readily available to make such an assessment. lol US employers are in compliance with how much they pay just not to the people they pay it to? Unscrupulous employers just break the law a little hey? lol

Im not sure about your privatized system so ill leave that. Basically you want to pay anyone who can get into your country $23k/year in welfare paid by those people with real jobs in private industry. Do you understand in many countries they work (*)(*)(*)(*) hard for the equivalent of 5k/year and many without work can barely feed themselves. Yet somehow you dont think straving people in the world wouldnt take advantage of this, they'd all have jobs ready and waiting because its worked so well in magical liberal land.

I disagree they go hand in hand, if they dont as i said earlier dont offer welfare! And again id love just one example of the open border country that offers $23k/ year that has solved all poverty. You propose a massive social experiment thats never been done makes no sense and risks the very living standards of the country.

 

My thesis is that comprehensive immigration reform is long overdue. Radical Republicans killed the Bush's legislation in the Senate in 2007, perpetuated the status of 11 million undocumented folks, and alienated Hispanic Americans without whose votes the Party's prospects are bleak. Coincidentally, a paranoid bureaucratic Potemkin Village arose in the wake of the criminal attacks upon the WTC towers that promoted a facade of national security, anti-innovation, anti-immigration measures included. It wasn't just about peeking in your grandma's bloomers when she passed through airports on holiday.

Now that the GOPers are showing belated signs of coming to grips with that existential reality- how their short-sighted policies have imperiled their well-being - they have placed themselves in a vulnerable position. Since their problem is of their own making, they can't kick.

​

It'll be interesting to see how the mischievous Democrats will play them. They should be wary. Very, very wary.

​

 

Wow if you are using this article to strengthen your argument to making 12 million low educated illegals, citizens, you just got blown out of the water. That's not what they are saying at all. It's all these low educated people coming in that are taking the place of the highly skilled people we need. This should also show the reason why we should not have open borders as some Libs have been calling for.

 

"Comprehensive reform" necessitates 1) confronting the reality of a permanent indigenous population of 12 million undocumented folks seeking better life, 2) a rational, effective policy regarding prospective immigrants, and 3) welcoming the innovators that contribute in more high-profile ways.

 

"wet foot/dry foot" is the FLAW in the RNC's play to think they can "woo Latino voters" by making Rubio the Nominee in 2016.

While Marco's family got a "Get Out Of Deportation Free" card, simply by being Cuban Latinos and putting a toe on the beaches of Florida....other Latinos didn't It'll be Romney's "$10,000 bet" or "I'm unemployed too" on immigration. A guy whose family got special treatment trying to tell Mexican, Costa Rican, Honduran, Salvadoran Latinos that he's "just like them"....or "exactamente de la misma manera que ellos"...

and they won't buy it.

 

These people sneaking in here are not innovators. If you haven't realized, we have 20 million Americans unemployed, or under employed that are seeking a better life too for them and their family. Are illegals sneaking into this country more entitled to that better life than people who are living here? I gave you a way to allow these people to come out in the open and work here and not be taken advantage off with sub par wages, without becoming citizens. I have yet to hear anyone from the Left give me a reason why it wouldn't work.

 

Your Charlie Brown / Lucy pic is quite appropriate. That's how we got played after Simpson Mazzoli. "Sure, we'll amnesty these guys, then secure the border!"

There's quite a cadre of Establishment Republicans who want amnesty as much the Democrats want it. Although at least I understand why the Democrats want it. Why the Establisment Repubs want it is something of a mystery to me.

 

There is much misinformation contained here that needs to be pointed out. First of all we have a problem with more US college educated Americans (estimated at over 40 million) than jobs that require college degrees (estimated at about 28 million) so why is Congress going make a college degree a priority to immigration?

Next is the fact that immigrants aren't taking "American" jobs. Generally speaking they are employed in jobs that Americans don't want and will not accept. Most immigrants that come here are unskilled labor (i.e. without a HS education) while the vast majority of Americans are semi-skilled (i.e. have a HS education) and they don't compete for the same jobs.

We also have hundreds of manufacturing companies in Mexico right across the border from the United States where the workers there do have some manufacturing skills. They are some of the highest paying jobs in Mexico and those workers earn more than the US minimum wage. They would do the same work in America for virtually the same wages so instead of importing these products we could be producing them here for the same cost. Is it better for the US economy to have these products being manufactured in Mexico or the US?

There is a false belief that immigrants don't want to become "Americans" as be a part of our culture which has always represented a melting pot. They want to become "Americans" just like the Irish and Chinese did 100 years ago. Of course the "white supremists" believe that everyone in America should assume the "European White Culture" but that is not what America is all about. There is obviously more we can do to help these immigrants understand what the American political ideology is, and we should be doing that, because America has a political ideology unique in the world and even most "natural born citizens" of the United States don't even know what that is.

The reason we have 11 or 12 million individuals that are unregistered "illegal immigrants" is because we have discriminatory immigration laws. Our immigration laws actually violate the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment because they are discriminatory. Whether we base our immigration laws on quotas or on education or any other discriminatory criteria they will still be discriminatory. Only if we eliminate all discriminatory criteria that limits immigration, and eliminating discrimination should be the goal of all Americans, will we remove the overwhelming reason why we have those that were discriminated against under the law being in the United States illegally.

It is true that these individuals would register and be here legally if we allowed it but we haven't. I would question why Congress should not provide the naturalization laws that would allow them to become citizens when the Constitution delegates this role and responsibility to the Congress.

 

Because we have many going to college here that aren't taking the course we need for the open jobs we have. For instance, we have thousands of teachers laid off here, but have to bring in math and science teachers from abroad. That doesn't mean we will only bring in college people, just that to many low educated people are being made citizens and not enough highly educated ones coming in to keep us competitive with the other major industrial nations.

Not true, only a small portion are working jobs Americans don't want. Many Americans without a job would love to have many jobs these illegals are working.

This analysis tests the often-made argument that immigrants only do jobs Americans don’t want. If the argument is correct, there should be occupations comprised entirely or almost entirely of immigrants. But Census Bureau data collected from 2005 to 2007, which allow for very detailed analysis, show that even before the recession there were only a tiny number of majority-immigrant occupations. (Click here to see detailed table.) http://www.cis.org/illegalImmigration-employment

Mexico still pays them much less than an American worker would get here. No we couldn't produce it here for the same cost.

No problem with the Hispanic culture. But get a little upset when these people root for the Mexico team over an American team playing in America.

There are millions of others out there, around the globe that also want to be Americans, but they do it the right way and millions of them have to wait longer to get in because illegals have taken their place.

 

Jobs Americans won't do?

OP-ED: Showdown in Arizona - Care2 News Network


www.care2.com/news/member/193692282/1866358


Jul 30, 2010 – The federal judge who ruled on Arizona's tragic, noxious new immigration law ... One grocery chain Phoenix was just raided and 300 illegals were caught and deported. The next day, 500 US citizens on unemployment were lined up in the .... of a restaurant that had unsafe working conditions in the kitchen!

 

FALSE, FALSE, FALSE, and FALSE.

1. What we are going to do is besides the point. The point needin to be understood is what we SHOULD be doing. and that is rounding up 11 million lawbreakers, imprisoning them (in the worst hellholes we can find), and THEN deporting them.

2. Even if it was partially our fault for not securing our borders, that doesn't give illegal aliens a pass to criminally enter our country. If you leave the door to you home open and someone criminally enters and takes your stuff, you'd only blame your self and not the person entering your home ?

3. Illegal aliens wanting a better life is not the point.

4. No, our country did not obviously need their skills, especially since almost all of them have no skills. And American don't need $25/hour to work. I worked for 50 years, and nevfer made even half that much. Right now millions of Americans are employed at minimum wage. Clerks in Target stores here in Florida get $7 and something an hour.

5. Many unions DO want immigrants here (to replace their dwindling memberships)

6. Obama is the biggest immigration supporter in America. Same with the Democrats who support immigration (legal & illegal both), as a way of acquiring VOTES.

 

You talk as if the only problem with immigration is that people are coming here illegally.

EARTH TO SHIVA: The problem is that people are coming here AT ALL (illegally OR legally). The problem is too many people, not how they arrive. If there was a problem with car theft, it wouldn't solve the problem to make car theft legal. In fact, that would make the problem worse, by encouraging more car theft. Likewise with immigration. Legalization would encourage more immigration in a country which has 10 times its optimum population, right now.

We have not needed more immigrants for 153 years, since 1860, when America passed its optimum population (relative to our resource base) of 30 million. If we had kept our population to that (instead of letting it balloon to 10 times that amount) then maybe we wouldn't be having to import 70% of our oil. Maybe we would have a surplus of oil and could sell it at a great profit thereby helping our deficit and debt. Want a good example of a country who's been doing it just that way ? Canada (our # 1 supplier of oil).

 

ALL LAWS ARE DISCRIMINATORY. They are SUPPOSED to be. They discriminate between what is harmless to a society, and what is harmful to it. Immigration is highly HARMFUL to American society. That's why it is illegal, didn't you know ?

Harms of Immigration

1. Americans lose jobs. (especially Whites due to affirmative action).

2. Wage reduction.

3. Tax $ lost (due to off books work + lower wages paid).

4. Remittance $$$ lost. ($40 Billion year).

5. Tax $$ lost to immigrants on welfare.

6. Increased crime.

7. Increased traffic congestion.

8. Increased pollution.

9. Overcrowding in hospital ERs.

10. Overcrowding in recreational facilities.

11. Overcrowding in government offices.

12. Overcrowding in schools.

13. Decrease in funds available for entitlements.

14. Cultural erosion