Sorry, Russia's Winning the War

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Destroyer of illusions, Dec 5, 2022.

  1. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2014
    Messages:
    16,104
    Likes Received:
    2,371
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Of course, World War II also ended in negotiations. It was called the "Yalta Agreement". Learn history.
     
  2. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2014
    Messages:
    16,104
    Likes Received:
    2,371
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The word "even" is inappropriate in this context. Russians will win 100%.
    As for the consequences, my opinion is that the Russians will return some regions to Russia (four regions that are already part of Russia + Nikolaev, Odessa, Kharkov, Sumy. And possibly the Dnepropetrovsk region). The rest will remain the state of Ukraine, with a poor economy and incredibly large debts to the West. Ukraine will have a pro-Russian government that will exterminate all Ukrainian fascists. Schools will begin to teach in Russian, praise Russia in every possible way ... they will carry out denazification. In general, after a while, fans of the Russian world will grow out of Ukrainians)
    If you think that this is difficult, then at least look at the history.
    Hitler came to power in 1933, and in 1939 a world war broke out. It took the German authorities only 6 years to completely reformat the consciousness of the nation.
    And this is without the Internet, television, advertising and other things.
    So everything will be fine for the Russians.
    And knowing the mentality of the Ukrainian, I can say with confidence that as soon as the Russians finish the war, the Ukrainians themselves will catch and hang those who were previously worshiped. This is their mentality. And for you, a historical example is the Poles, Ukrainians and ... and the Volyn massacre.
     
  3. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    56,862
    Likes Received:
    16,761
    Trophy Points:
    113
    While that is certainly true, and this at least on Putin's part is now more about saving face than any potential gain from the conflict I don't think it started that way. Nor do I think he would have pulled the trigger had he known how much it was going to cost him.hard to say with dictators though because they tend to operate in a bubble.
     
  4. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    56,862
    Likes Received:
    16,761
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yeah like Stalin didn't kill more Russians than Hitler. Oh and when some one starts telling me what other people's mentality is I tend to figure they are delusional or lying to themselves or both. By the way the Ukrainian Women and children that Russia hasn't already killed are now in Poland and other former Warsaw pact countries. So you might not need many schools.
     
  5. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,831
    Likes Received:
    13,493
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Strawman fallacy - accusing folks of things they did not say .. is not the Facts mate
     
  6. gringo

    gringo Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2019
    Messages:
    2,680
    Likes Received:
    1,945
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Putin created a war he could not lose

    if today he announced russia was retreating, the damage to Ukraine has been done

    Russia will not re-build Ukraine ....the same people that are supplying weapons will at some point rebuild Ukraine

    with that said

    Ukraine will never win the war with its current strategy ....a war cannot be won only using defensive tactics..

    the confederate did not surrender until the union invaded the south ...

    had the union only defended the north there would be 2 countries today...

    union solders crossed the mason dixon line and began an offensive that soon would cause the confederate to crumble

    Ukraine must bring the war to Russia and adapt an offensive strategy...

    until they do, littlte by little russia will continue to make Ukraine a wasteland
     
    Hey Now likes this.
  7. Hey Now

    Hey Now Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2021
    Messages:
    17,372
    Likes Received:
    13,819
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sadly but starkly realistic, a spot on analysis^!

    My 2 cents, this "reality" is likely known but to put (say the US public support for full offence) out in the open, would raise the stakes and draw them in 100%. On the flip side, US resolve for this could shift drastically in the current election cycle or the next depending who's greasing who and who's in power of what.
     
  8. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,377
    Likes Received:
    6,705
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    What's "RT"?
     
  9. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2014
    Messages:
    16,104
    Likes Received:
    2,371
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And it's very good that a lot of Ukrainians are in Europe. This is amazing. I read European news and I see with pleasure that now Europeans are beginning to realize what Ukrainians are in reality. :roflol::roflol::roflol:
     
  10. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2014
    Messages:
    16,104
    Likes Received:
    2,371
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Russia Today
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2022
  11. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    56,862
    Likes Received:
    16,761
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The difference between Pravda and Russia Today is little more than a matter of subtlety.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2022
    Dayton3 likes this.
  12. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,377
    Likes Received:
    6,705
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I've read Russia Today many times. It is good as a travellog for Russia but I can't say the same for geo political analysis.
     
  13. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2014
    Messages:
    16,104
    Likes Received:
    2,371
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The Pravda newspaper, which was in the USSR, is also an exceptionally truthful publication. But I don't know if this edition exists today or not.
     
  14. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2014
    Messages:
    16,104
    Likes Received:
    2,371
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If you have read RT, then I am happy for you. You may not agree with political analyzes, but at least you get information from different sources. And that's good. By studying different opinions, you can draw your own conclusions that will be more real.
     
  15. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,377
    Likes Received:
    6,705
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    To me Krokodil was more interesting and more telling regarding domestic cultural issues
     
    freedom8 likes this.
  16. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    18,993
    Likes Received:
    3,609
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Pravda was the least truthful publication in the twentieth century it was strictly state propoganda
     
    freedom8 and Dayton3 like this.
  17. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    56,862
    Likes Received:
    16,761
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Seriously? Pravda featured articles claiming among other insanities that Russia invented Baseball. The The only good thing about it was that it was such an obvious load of BS that almost no one took it seriously.
     
  18. freedom8

    freedom8 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    1,843
    Likes Received:
    1,111
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Pravda (meaning 'truth') and Izvestia (meaning 'news') were the 2 main newspapers in the Soviet era. They were, of course official (=govt controlled) papers and were filled with propaganda.

    The russian people didn't believe much of their content; there was even a famous popular joke saying: there is no 'izvestia' in The Pravda and there is no 'pravda' in The Izvestia.

    But it was good entertainment and a bottomless source of inspiration for the satirical half-underground Krokodil magazine.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2022
  19. ToughTalk

    ToughTalk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2018
    Messages:
    12,591
    Likes Received:
    9,559
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Authoritarian regime is authoritarian...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_amendments_to_the_Constitution_of_Russia
    • Nullify the number of presidential terms served by the current president (Vladimir Putin) or former president (Dmitry Medvedev) to allow either to serve his first term if elected to the presidency in 2024.
    It's like what China just did...

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...mits-enabling-xi-jinping-to-rule-indefinitely

    "President Xi Jinping of China is poised to rule the country indefinitely after Chinese lawmakers passed changes to the country's constitution abolishing presidential term limits."

    **** holes. The both of them.

    Rocket man gives thumbs up though!
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2022
  20. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2019
    Messages:
    1,933
    Likes Received:
    819
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So is that how you avoid having to address the facts? Just call everything opposed to your beliefs a 'straw man fallacy'?

    Just keep on believing Putin's a good guy, that he's not targeting free speech & free journalism in his country, that he's not lying to his soldiers, that Russians are not protesting the war & fleeing Russia, that it's not an invasion but rather a 'special operation', that he's winning the Ukraine war, that's he's being a 'gentle giant' and using 'kid gloves', that he cares about the separatists, that Zelensky is a Nazi terrorist, that he's not deliberately targeting civilians, and that the Budapest memorandum never existed.
     
  21. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2019
    Messages:
    1,933
    Likes Received:
    819
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    A war cannot be won only using defensive tactics?

    Oh yes it can! Invasion is the easy part. Occupation is the hard part. If Putin cannot occupy the nation and establish a stable environment for continued occupation by winning the hearts & minds of invaded people, it will have to deal with persistent resistance—just like the Nazis had to deal with the French resistance. And that's only IF they can even fully occupy the nation, which they will never be able to do.

    Hitler's forces couldn't even occupy little ol' UK despite continued attacks. The US has had to pull out of virtually every nation it invaded as well. Defense is the easiest part of any war. The invader is always at a disadvantage because their forces are minuscule compared to the millions of citizens being invaded, and on their own turf.
     
  22. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,831
    Likes Received:
    13,493
    Trophy Points:
    113
    "Just keep believing Putin's a good guy" = Strawman fallacy

    False accusations you make up in your head are not "The Facts" Never said Putin was a Good Guy or that he does not target free speech.

    Substituting made up nonsense for reality is not the Facts mate ..
     
  23. gringo

    gringo Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2019
    Messages:
    2,680
    Likes Received:
    1,945
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I somewhat agree ..

    And this is why Russia is not winning the war they created in Ukraine ..Ukraine is certainly not winning the war

    just like a boxing match does not have to end in a knockout for the winner to be decided .whoever wins the most rounds wins the fight ..

    Russia invaded Ukraine but cannot occupy it ..does this mean Ukraine is winning?? Thousands of dead Ukrainians would beg to differ ..

    Russia may not be winning the war ,but Putins mission is being accomplished ..he is in a fight. His mission was to create a war and be damned with the results ..little by little they are making Ukraine a wasteland ..then the Russian mobsters can return to Ukraine ..

    Not entirely ..but one reason Russia invaded was because Ukraine was attempting to stop the Russian mobsters from ruling the country. Prior to Zelinsky russia was controlled by the Russian mobsters ..

    rather than relinquish their power in Ukraine , russia went to war
     
  24. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2014
    Messages:
    16,104
    Likes Received:
    2,371
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You write this way because you have not seen a single edition of the newspaper. For example, about the West in this edition they wrote very softly in comparison with reality. The reality in the West is much worse than it was written in Pravda
     
  25. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2014
    Messages:
    16,104
    Likes Received:
    2,371
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's true. The Russians are actually the inventors of baseball. Only in Russia this game was called Lapta. Rules with virtually no changes to the rules of the Russian "lapta" moved to baseball.
    The game "lapta" in Russia existed even before the baptism of Rus'. This game is at least a couple thousand years old.

     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2022

Share This Page