The European / Syrian Refugee crisis

Yes, I've heard the "it's Islam's fault" argument many times from Americans who don't want to admit how evil and corrupt the US government is. It's a much more soothing explanation.

Of course, your theory doesn't explain why many Muslims are actively fighting against AQ and ISIS instead of joining or supporting them.

 

I'm sure there are many, many Syrians who will hold the US government responsible for what happened to their country, regardless of what either of us think. Hopefully it doesn't result in an epic amount of blow-back like the destruction of Iraq did.

 

You can refuse an immigrant who wants to get in to look for a job.
You got no right to refuse a refugee from a war from entering your country, since he got the right to flee.
So the debris are not the same. American debris are there by choice. Europe got no option but to accept.

 

If you didn't know about the phone surveillance program before Snowden, you probably should have. It was in the newspapers as early as 2006.
'

Well we're not in a court of law and the point the OP was making is that the US is responsible for taking in Syrian refugees because we started the war. There simply isn't a basis for believing that. We didn't start that war and are not responsible for the war's refugees.

 

Nope. The Arab Spring and the revolt had zero to do Iraq.

 

Nope. The US removed everybody with experience from the army because they had connections to Saddams government. They than put new people in charge with no experience what so ever. We know from the sectarian violence during the US occupation, than even the US mostly could not control the country. They than leaved it up to that inexperienced 3rd world army who were not to well armed. Their airforce were freaking banged up fighters who previously got used to train pilots elsewhere. On paper it indeed looks like they got one. In reality,.. it's a joke. And the joke is left in the hands of the incompetent.

How could this go wrong?
Beats me.

- - - Updated - - -

The US invasion of Iraq has everything to do with iraq. It caused the collapse of all the order in that country. And ISIS was partially born in that anarchy the US created.

 

So, if something is in "the newspapers", then you know it's true?

I agree. The standard of proof in an internet forum is considerably lower.

I'm not talking about "we", I'm talking about the US government. And, yes, the US government is largely responsible for the disaster in Syria. The original conflict between pro-democratic moderates and the Assad regime was not what started the broader civil war that has resulted in the destruction of Syria. What started the broader conflict in Syria was the intervention of outside forces like the US government and its clients in Turkey, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar. They provided the financing, arms, training, and personnel that was needed in order to sustain the rebellion against the Assad government. I guess you think that just because the US government cannot be proven definitively to have caused the initial spark of the conflict, that they have no responsibility for anything that happened afterwards? Because there is ample evidence to demonstrate the US government's heavy involvement in the perpetuation of the Syrian conflict. It appears in many, many newspapers.

It had "zero" to do with it, even though ISIS, one of the main fighting forces in Syria, wouldn't exist without the invasion of Iraq. I can see you are thinking very objectively on this.

 

1) PNAC was not the writer who said Bibi would benefit here, nor did Bibi originate the ideas either.

2) That all these 5 nations had chosen to hate America was good reason for our leaders to think about how we ought oppose them.
That they are all suffering quite a bit seems appropriate to the work our government has done so far.
Doesn't it?
Bad as it has turned out, they wanted this for us, didn't they,... don't they?

3) Your comment about the min wage errs.

“I may wish to have all jobs pay at least $15 an hour,” . “But that minimum would almost certainly reduce employment in a major way, crushing many workers possessing only basic skills. Smaller increases, though obviously welcome, will still leave many hardworking Americans mired in poverty.”


The error is in stating unemployment rises when slow min wage increases advance.
They never had done that.
And right now, all business has cut to the bone already.

 

for some people difficult to explain... because of it, I just show a simple - ''reflection''.
Refugees from Ukraine around 1 million in Russia. U.S has been actively supporting the Poroshenko government, it seems to me that U.S is the most guilty party. Send all the Ukrainian refugees there. Now that's justice!

 

These are all referring to one same article.
It tells us that once Libya saw the Arab Spring, America began reacting in various ways against the 5 Nations who had been designated our enemies.
N Korea, Syria, Iran, Libya, Somali seem to be suffering in ways they had wished upon the USA, aren't they?

As their own citizens flee now, why are we concerned that they have tolerated their own government and can not govern themselves either?

I say, ban immigrants out of the USA from these nations.
America can not even watch all the terrorist we have here right now.

 

That is soooo stupid. Here's your answer: Not all muslims support radical islam and jihad

 

Again, this is so dumb. We control our borders. We take in more folks than anyone already, whether legally or illegally. The solution is not to just allow the free-flow of millions of refugees from a bunch of sick bastards in the ME, but to restore order to the ME.

This is Obama's (*)(*)(*)(*)-up. He destabilized the ME, and just last year, called ISIS the JV. Europe needs to absorb the majority of this mess. It is their doorstep. Not ours.

 

Typical twisted argument and tortured logic from a confused liberal. Geez, just don't hold Sarkozy to any criminal responsibility. Don't also forget your untouchable hero-saint, the gunrunner-in-chief Obama.

 

?
The USA recognized that 5 nations hated us and were pitted against us.
What came to them has been a terrible blow for the all.
Now many wish to run and live with us.

Why should we care that they got what they wish we had experienced instead???

Ought we not be more happy, whatever our leaders did, which has brought problems to Iraq, Syria, Libya, etc that they wished upon us???
Now you want America to be guilty as winner here?

 

The US is not taking in anybody who needs help and fleeing for their lives though. Or at least not in any kind of large number.
While they did destabilize the entire region creating the anarchy where ISIS got born from.

Get realistic. It's GWB invaded Iraq.

 

... why Europe???
These Arab Spring people eliminated governments, tried to install harsh muslim theocrats, and then lost everything in what is called Anarchy.
Why does Europe needvmore angry muslims whose kids seem easily converted to terrorism which offers them slave girls and fun blowing up stuff???

 

The Arab spring people, eliminated extreme oppressive Christian/Jewish puppet regimes in Egypt, Yemen, Libya and Tunisia and wanted democracy. It's just dumb to think they did it to get a kind of ISIS.

 

?

GWB hit Saddam who violated the Peace Agreement we gave him 17 times according to the UN.
Saddam fired at our airplanes.
Saddam acted like he had won against us, and that the public liberals would never let America fight him again.
Saddam bragged he did have A-bombs.
Saddam ruled using force which repressed the people too.

All this preceded the Arab Spring which has produced the present situation.

It seems general fine in my view.
Israel is hardly on the Arab radar now, because they have some many enemies on every side that even Iran worries more about ISIS that the Jews.
What we are seeing is a major Arab war against other muslims where they all lose in the end.

Why should America or Europe worry about immigrants who come from places that hated us all?

 

... really...?
The mobs raped America and European reporters.
They attacked their governments which they then claimed where evil because America and Europe maintained relationships with those nations.
America and Europe want stable governments in the Middle East. They don't care what those governments are, kings, theocrats, dictators, even democracies.
America want trade and oil.
Period.

That these people are angry at the West because their leaders us the trade to build up their military hold over their own people is a false case against the West.

 

Syrians have hated America so openly that their nation is listed among the 5 Nations who are our enemies.

That they hate us even more because they are now suffering badly could hardly be something we need focus upon.

 

Really rediculous? Well, following your logic, the USA have to take many refugees over the world. South Vietnam was close ally of the USA, so did the USA take the masses of refugees? No!
You are in this way wrong that the USA is exporting democracy by war at least, but is not willing to accept responsibilities. USA attacked criminal way Iraq in 2003 and cause a mess in the complete country what inflicts the complete ME at least. USA supports every sort of rebels in Syra, good and bad one, because important is only that they are fighting Assad ... including ISIS! Then ISIS turns out to become a terrible threat wich mess up the mess in Syria to a worse and which brings Iraq to fall nearly. But you say that Russia is responsible because ally of Assad. Man ... if the ally is responsible and has to take refugees, then illegal immigrants are only a rediculous problem for the USA, because USA has to take millions of refugees throuhout the world!

 

Obama destabilized the ME???? Are you serious?
Man ... who attacked Iraq in 2003 by utterly criminal reasons and backed on a bunch of lies please? George W. Bush junior and his criminal government gang. No, I'm not a leftie who blame with lefty phrases, this is fact!
But you are now so impudent to blame the person who earns the ME mess from Bush to be responsible ... the person which had the balls to take out GI Joe out of it?
And even if you start to tell now that Saddam was a bastard ... yes he was, but we have many in the world. But why was Saddam at all so powerful to become a threat, did you ever ask this yourself? Because USA accepted and suppoted him as far as he was fighting Iran and the Reagan Administration gave a crap on his brutality then. Remember for this rediculous soft US reaction when he used poison gas against Kurd rebels in the 1980's ... only when he became enemy, this was later suddenly a big crime for the USA.

Sorry ... but your behavior to give Obama the guilt is really impudent.

 

Of course they were behind the Arab Spring, all of a sudden there no support for previously supported dictators? Imo it goes more like, Ottomans Empire defeated > West creates countries and dictators for them, eventually fundamentalists Jihad twin towers and say 'hey US there has to be change or else', US arms friendly little Arab guys and give it a lovely name .....Spring - ahhh Spring is always good.

And we see it today - nothing meaningful done to stop ISIS while it wasnt long ago Obama was on a world tour selling war against Assad. Fake chem attacks didnt even work. So while the US in the background its not really their fault - Its juggling a (*)(*)(*)(*)hole that is the ME full of Muslim who want nothing more than conquering us. The US and Europe owe them nothing, its all of their own hand because they embrace an idiotic ideology.

 

Good luck to Mandelus and other Germans. For many years to come you will be paying higher taxes to support those poorly educated and unemployable hordes of migrants who will never be integrated into German system. Mark my words. Someone out there is waging an economic war against Germany. First undermining a good relationship between Germany and Russia, and now flooding Germany with hundred of thousands (possibly few millions) unemployable migrants (lack of education and language skills). They will be sucking life out of a German welfare system for many years to come.

The Latest: Merkel sees no legal limit on asylum-seekers
Associated PressBy The Associated Press | Associated Press
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/latest-merkel-sees-no-legal-limit-asylum-seekers-070045654.html#qv2ewyk

 

Really unemployabe refugees? There are of course low educated too, but many are well educated too. In neighbor of my sector is a refugee housing and I helpvher on volunteer base. Many of them are studied persons, 2 are medical doctors, 8 women are full educated nurses and 5 enginners and architects too. Of course also low educated too ... but your words are the usual propaganda of only low educated masses flooding the west. Reality is something else ... and more important what all you upset persons who see west in islanic threat due to the masses of refugees: all did not leave their country as illegal immigrants, but they wete forced to leave their life thry had and where they were happy. This is no invading Jihad army as your and other words will make believing.