The jig is up for Trump: Special Master has asked declassification details

Yeah, and there aren't any.


Tweet from Kyle Cheney:
https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1572000948318310402
JUST IN: Special Master Dearie has asked Trump's team for declarations about any actions
he's taken to declassify material. Trump's team sas in a filing tonight that it is resisting that
request -- because it could be a defense to any criminal charges.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763.97.0.pdf


Why do I say 'the jig is up'? First, okay, in order for this to make some sense you'd have to be following this story, because I'm not going to explain too much. First, let's establish the fact that Trump's reply to DOJ's motion for 'temporary stay' never actually stated in court that he declassified any materials. But he definitely implied it, saying 'he had the power to do it' etc, trying to give Cannon the idea that he did do it without actually saying he did it. Why would he do such an indirect way of saying it? Because he didn't want Cannon to ask Trump for declassification details. Reason? There aren't any, he never declassified the docs, it's all a big lie he made up so he could keep the documents. Or so he thinks.

What Trump is doing is lying to cover his tracks that he made a huge blunder by taking the documents, thinking that it was okay to take them, not realizing the national security department NARA, etc., would raise a big stink about it, and now he's back pedaling some made up story about how he 'declassified everything'. Nonsense, and Bill Barr agreed on that point, it's a nutty idea at the outset, things just aren't done that way for it would be incredibly irresponsible to declassify in a blanket fashion.

Trump knows that he didn't actually declassify squat (that's my opinion, of course, but I feel confident that is the case, given how Trump makes crap up all the time and it's very much like him to be making this story up thinking that if he can claim he declassified the documents, he can keep them, totally oblivious to the notion that it won't matter in a 793 indictment. And I doubt Kash Patel is going to swear under oath that Trump did a 'broad declassify'.

Patel was the guy who, as you recall, stated in an interview that he saw and heard Trump do a blanket declassify (which is nuts, who, in history, has ever done a blanket declassify? It defies reason) and like I said, I'm pretty sure Trump didn't declassify squat, and all this is bluster, and Patel isn't stupid enough to lie under oath, or, at last, I don't think he is. I mean, Trump could have written in his filing to Dearie that he's got a witness, but he tried to wiggle out of it and didn't mention Patel. So, that ought to tell us something.

So, the jig is up. Now Trump is trying to weasel out of it, and claim some bizarre notion that to give the details on how he declassified the documents would go against his defense should he be indicted, which makes no sense.

In the above filing, it states (a lawyer is writing it for Trump):

The Plaintiff [Trump] respectfully sees no indication the District Court planned to carve out related litigation for a merits determination by the issuing magistrate for the warrant in question. Most importantly, none of the District Court’s Orders have ever indicated that this was even a consideration. Similarly, the Draft Plan requires that the Plaintiff disclose specific information regarding declassification to the Court and to the Government.

See, previously Dearie sent a memo to Team Trump for information on how he declassified, because Dearie isn't taking Trump's word for it. It continues:

We respectfully submit that the time and place for affidavits or declarations would be in connection with a Rule 41 motion that specifically alleges declassification as a component of its argument for return of property. Otherwise, the Special Master process will have forced the Plaintiff to fully and specifically disclose a defense to the merits of any subsequent indictment without such a requirement being evident in the District Court’s order.

Yes, and the ONLY reason it's not in the court's order because Trump never declared in court that he declassified anything. But, Dearie knows that that is Trump's position, he distinctly alluded to it in his reply to the DOJ's motion and said it on TV, many times, out of court, so naturally he want's the details on how Trump declassified. I mean, that 'waving magic wand' argument that Barr spoke of (or something to that effect) isn't going to fly in court.

So, there it is, right there. . But there are no details, Trump never declassified squat, and now the jig is up. The fact that there is no real basis in law or even logic for this Special Master is going to be evident to Dearie, soon, 'methinks'. (What do I know? I"m no lawyer ).

So, let's see what Dearie does next. It will be interesting, knowing that he's a no nonsense Judge. He won't stand for any game playing, or wasting the court's time.

 

I think we'll see Trump try to withdraw his request for a Special Master, or will claim the Special Master is some kind of "deep state" mole, in the next week or so.

Funny as hell.

 

Right about now Trump as realized his selection of Dearie was a big ass mistake. This is going to be interesting.

 

yep, Trump was able to pick the Special Master, I do not think he expected that, makes it harder for him to attack the system and divert attention from what he has done

 

It will be the same song and dance.

1. He's a "never Trumper".
2. He will be harassed and stalked.
3. He will be lumped with Cheney, Kinzinger, Romney, etc.

Rinse and repeat.

P.S. My posting history will show that I expressed concerns about a civil war before the 2020 election and stated within hours of the Capitol riot that that was his trial run.

 

His supporters will be working tirelessly all night to show why this Regan appointee has been a deep state plant for over 30 years. I cannot wait to hear the conspiracy theories.

 

This deserves its own thread.
Full title

Trump team says it doesn’t want to immediately disclose certain ‘declassification’ information in special master review

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/09/19/...artment-trump-mar-a-lago-documents/index.html

This makes no sense whatsoever. If documents were classified they were government property. The CURRENT administration is entitled to have access to those records to do it’s job properly.
Federal employees are entitled to know the classification status of the documents they are dealing with (if they have copies). They need to know what has been declassified, in case they feel the need to reclassify.

What this does do is show how ridiculous is trump’s claim that he declassified documents that he took to Mar a Lago. The idea that he could have declassified them, but he’s the only one who knows exactly what is declassified, runs contrary to the whole purpose of classification - that federal employees deal with documents and information with the appropriate degree of secrecy.
What’s really happening is that his lawyers don’t want to come off the fence because there is no good answer for him.

 

Looks like the “Special Master “WIN” … wasn’t. All this tRaitor tRump “winning” is going to land his ass in jail.

 

Fully and specifically disclosing alleged declassification would impede his defense if there was a subsequent indictment, how?

The alleged declassification has no value to the possible charges in the warrant. I can see how it would have public relations value and as OP presumes could be detrimental to Trump if not true but we’re still in the PR forum not legal.

My guess is the 11th Circuit will jump in fairly quickly and the chaos Cannon has created will dissipate.

 

How many posts into this thread will it take until the first personal attacks on Dearie will be posted? Actually, it may take a while, they haven't gotten the marching orders from Fox News yet.

 

Did you even read what it said? It doesn’t say they don’t want to make the argument. It says they don’t want to make the argument because doing so would force them to reveal their defense strategy before a trial and give the opposition the ability to fight against it preemptively.

 

Yes I read that and I explained why it makes no sense.
Among other reasons:
Federal employees NEED to know the classification status of documents so they can treat them with the appropriate level of security.

 

Then that is the purview of the CURRENT administration to determine what their classification status is NOW. Their classification status while under trump is an issue for the special master and or a court if the DOJ has the balls, or should I say evidence, to charge him. Not the DOJ or FBI.

 

@Patricio Da Silva @MJ Davies @PPark66

well, here it comes, and i'm not following tucker's marching orders.....

trump would not have put dearie on the list if dearie is not corrupt or corruptible. i expect more weirdness before this circus wraps up.

if the special master is not going in trump's advantage, the 11th circuit will assume jurisdiction, and trump has an advantage there as well.

"if you want justice, stay out of court" edwin edwards

 

Exactly, what's happening here is a two-step process. 1) The DOJ engaged in a search warrant to seize the documented materials. Crucially, as you've pointed out they didn't indict or subponea these documents which allowed Trump to 2) File a civil suit to litigate the documents. This is something that's still lost on the prosecutors of the government. No matter how special these documents are, they are being treated by Her Honor the same as any other item under contention of Ownership. And as long as there's a contention, neither side truly owns it. That's for the SM and for Her Honor to decide.

As it regards the Trump team's filing, they seem to be setting out the preliminary background for how things are to proceed from here and I think their argument is fair. Without an indictment, the Trump team doesn't have to cite what's unclassified and what isn't. The SM just needs to be able to identify the specific type of documents and go from there. Since classification is a major issue at point in the litigation, and broadly at point with the criminal motions to possibly be made by the DOJ, the Trump Team shouldn't have to disclose that information unless otherwise ordered to do so.

 

The status of the documents when he left office is important for the federal government to know.

But ok - you say he wants to keep that secret in case he is indicted later, but how would that change anything? He either declassified documents or he didn’t. He can’t pick and choose later. But that seems to be exactly what he is doing. He will argue about whether certain documents are declassified or not, depending on what suits him best in the future. Not based on what actually happened in the past.

All of which supports the idea that he didn’t actually declassify anything. That this declassification argument is an after-the-fact defense.

 

Then they can prove that in court. But they can’t because if they could have they would have already perp walked him in cuffs for criminal contempt for refusing to comply with a document subpoena.

But in order to do that, the feds would have to be able to prove they requested those documents in the subpoena. Which they can’t do.

 

It's more of the typical Trump strategy. Delay, delay, delay, while sowing more and more confusion by continuing to throw mud at the wall. At the end, everybody is stuck in the muck and nobody knows what is what.

All this is done in the hope that this will create enough public outrage among his following that the authorities decide that they can't possibly charge him without causing some sort of public unrest.

 

This is simply more time wasting by the Trump team. The judge really doesn't care about justice and the rule of law.

My 2 cents, I think the lack of direction and confusion the judge caused was coordinated. If it wasn't, then she's really deeply unqualified for her appointment.

 

They can prove the documents were classified. If part of trump’s defense is based on him declassifying the documents, he will have to prove that.

But you completely skated over the fact that there’s no shred of evidence that anything was declassified. That, and trump’s refusal to clarify, strongly suggests that this idea of declassification did not actually happen at the time - that it’s a made up, after-the-fact argument that he might raise as a defense.

If he actually declassified the documents, that already happened. What’s the harm in identifying them?

 

Because let’s assume he can show documentation where they were declassified. If he presents that now, this corrupt DOJ and FBI will abandon this corrupt attempt and try to find something else to go after because they’re irrefutably targeting him. However if he waits for them to bring criminal charges for declassified material he can slap them around in court with said document.

 

If they can prove he declassified them, then why not do it now and prevent being charged at all.

When are people going to give up on the idea that he declassified the documents?

People are like pigs at the trough gobbling up whatever garbage Trump dumps into it.

 

Really, what the others are arguing essentially boils down to: Trump should just kiss the ring of the DOJ. But that's not how it should or must work. Our system is an adversarial system. One that pits two legal conflicting theories against each other called the defendant and the plantiff. Whether criminal or civil, one fact remains the same: It is incumbent on the plantiff to prove the defendant's guilt, all the defendant has to do is argue as to why he's not guilty

Where it's been messed up is this presumption by many judges that the best thing they can do is also kiss the ring of the DOJ. But by kissing the ring of the DOJ, they defeat the entire purpose of an adversarial system. It's supposed to be hard to win cases in America, not easy. A judge should aim to make it as difficult as possible for the prosecution and as lenient as reasonably possible for the defense. Only then can the truth come out.

 

I don't know. I Trump and his team will milk the confusion and time wasting judge Cannon created for all it's worth. And, that includes the SM because at the end of the day, if they can draw this out and take the "sting off", it's a win. They will question every singe doc and judge Cannon is going to rule on them one by one, the SM will be like the DOJ, twiddling his thumbs.

 

Funny all of the above, so now Trump produces a document showing where he declassified the documents he took, and then what?