The Muslim problem

The only 'cherry-picking' done here was that of mainstream Pharisaic Jews.

I would call it an interpretive tradition instead, but the point is that the interpretations in Judaism at the time of Jesus and the apostles subsequently flowed into Christianity.

 

What ignorance? Stalin didn't want people worshiping something other than him. Organized religion is a threat to a totalitarian system. What am I not getting exactly?

Also, what is your point? That Stalin and Mao are megalomaniac control-freak sociopaths with no sense of empathy? I know that already.

I don't "own" anything, I'm not a communist, I have no allegiance to those psychos.

 

Sorry AKR, but if a person does those things, he can not be a Christian. It goes against everything Christianity stands for. Unlike the Koran, the New Testament is against all those things. The Koran has no such thing which is why they talk these weak minded Muslims into doing things today that was meant for over a thousand years ago.

 

I can't completely go along with that because there are Christians who commit violence thinking they are serving God and Christianity alike. To say they aren't real Christians is to say that Muslims who commit violence in the name of Islam aren't real Muslims. Neither are true, even if the majority in both religions think those who commit violence are misguided.

But starting from the premise that even those who commit violence are still Christians and still Muslims, where Leftists like AKR lie is when they try to pass of Christianity as being just as guilty as Muslims in this regard. This is said with no sense of proportion. For every abortion clinic bombed, there hundreds of suicide bombings, jihad attacks on Christians and churches, mass shootings like in Ft. Hood, bombings such as at the Boston Marathon, homosexuals and adulterers executed enforcing religious law, and the list goes on.

They lying Left wants to silence Christians by saying that as long as we have Christians who commit offenses, we can't condemn the ocean of violence that occurs in the name of Islam. And we can't expect Muslims to own their violence if we can't own ours. I say we go ahead and own our violence, even though I agree with you that those who commit violence have no understanding of what Jesus taught. Because in the end, the preponderance of violence by scale works very favorably to Christians.

 

Anyone who uses religion as an excuse for violence that really has nothing to do with relgion and everything to do with politics is a hypocritical scumbag. In the end its all about what it has been since day one - power in the here and now.

Be they Muslim, Christian, Hindi, Jew, or any other.

 

Not when the Muslim has dozens of verses from the Koran he can quote that directly support his actions while the Christian does not have any such verses from the bible to support his.

 

Your mistake is in presuming that political motivations are not Islamic motivations.


Islam is not merely a belief, so that it is enough merely to preach it. Islam, which is a way of life, takes practical steps to organize a movement for freeing man. Other societies do not give it any opportunity to organize its followers according to its own method, and hence it is the duty of Islam to annihilate all such systems, as they are obstacles in the way of universal freedom. ...
This religion is really a universal declaration of the freedom of man from servitude to other men and from servitude to his own desires, which is also a form of human servitude; it is a declaration that sovereignty belongs to God alone and that He is the Lord of all the worlds. It means a challenge to all kinds and forms of systems which are based on the concept of the sovereignty of man; in other words, where man has usurped the Divine attribute. Any system in which the final decisions are referred to human beings, and in which the sources of all authority are human, deifies human beings by designating others than God as lords over men.
This declaration means that the usurped authority of God be returned to Him and the usurpers be thrown out-those who by themselves devise laws for others to follow, thus elevating themselves to the status of lords and reducing others to the status of slaves. In short, to proclaim the authority and sovereignty of God means to eliminate all human kingship and to announce the rule of the Sustainer of the universe over the entire earth. ...
After annihilating the tyrannical force, whether it be in a political or a racial form, or in the form of class distinctions within the same race, Islam establishes a new social, economic and political system, in which the concept of the freedom of man is applied in practice
http://web.youngmuslims.ca/online_library/books/milestones/hold/chapter_4.htm

 

Agreed. When Christians "love your enemy" and "turn the other cheek" to him to strike, when stricken, then you could attribute their behavior to Christianity. When David Koresh declared himself to be Jesus Christ and husband to all the women in the compound, you really cant blame that on Christianity.

When a muslim self detonates, declaring Allah Akbar as he does, he is adhering to his religious doctrine.


[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.(*)

[2.193] And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah...(*)

2.216] Fighting is enjoined on you, and h is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.

[2.244] And fight in the way of Allah,...

[2.246] ...May it not be that you would not fight if fighting is ordained for you? They said: And what reason have we that we should not fight in the way of Allah, and we have indeed been compelled to abandon our homes and our children. But when fighting was ordained for them, they turned back, except a few of them, and Allah knows the unjust.

[3.151] We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust.

[3.169] And reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord;

[4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward.

[4.76] Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Shaitan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Shaitan; surely the strategy of the Shaitan is weak.

[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

[9.111] Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain;(*)

[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

[47.4] So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them

 

Oh look, a convoluted religious justification for what amounts to blatant political control.

Apparently In Islam the notion of freedom of man is complete subservience to Allah which actually means complete subervience to religious authority, which is entirely interpreted and implemented by men of the ruling religious elite.

Speaking as an atheist, its all a giant crock of supernatural excrement, which unfortunately too many people like to revel in.

 

That's true. It also partially explains why Muslims commit violence with more frequency than Christians....much more. But the larger explanation is that Muslims follow a false god. God is God and cannot be whoever people make him out to be. To believe in "allah" is to turn back the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, the age of grace by which people receive the mercy of God freely by simply asking, and receive salvation not by killing people but by dying to one's self. Islam, invented 7 centuries after Christianity, represents a GIANT step backward in man's relationship with God and vice versa. It's like the New Covenant never happened.

So regardless of what the secularists tell you, "allah" cannot be the same God as worshipped by the Christians and Jews. This gives rise to the question, if Muslims aren't following God, particularly the violent Muslims, then who are they following? There's only one alternative.

 

Incorrect;

 

You aren't listening:

http://www.m-a-t.org/

That took me all of 10 seconds to find.

 

I guess you're unaware of the Christian militias massacring Muslims in the Central African Republic right now. No lie.
http://www.christianpost.com/news/c...im-population-says-human-rights-group-114489/

 

I was speaking as an atheist myself.

 

Claiming to be Christians doesn't make the doctrine they follow to be Christianity. Nothing in the bible supports their actions. As Christians they are supposed to "obey all authorities instituted among men". Supposed to "love your enemy" and "turn the other cheek" for him to strike, when they are stricken.

 

Like most such groups, they usually place the blame on oppression, exploitation and injustice upon the muslims who commit terrorist attacks

while pretending it has nothing to do with the written word in their Koran.

[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

[2.193] And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah...(*)

2.216] Fighting is enjoined on you, and h is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.

[2.244] And fight in the way of Allah,...

[2.246] ...May it not be that you would not fight if fighting is ordained for you? They said: And what reason have we that we should not fight in the way of Allah, and we have indeed been compelled to abandon our homes and our children. But when fighting was ordained for them, they turned back, except a few of them, and Allah knows the unjust.

[3.151] We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust.

[3.169] And reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord;

[4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward.

[4.76] Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Shaitan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Shaitan; surely the strategy of the Shaitan is weak.

[9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

[9.111] Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain;(*)

[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

[47.4] So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them

 

I am an atheist so don't make such judgments as to the falsity of their god. You claimed

"To say they aren't real Christians is to say that Muslims who commit violence in the name of Islam aren't real Muslims"

to which I disagreed. When so called Christian tribes in Africa slaughter villages of muslims, we CAN argue they aren't following Christian doctrine and are in fact clearly violating it. Their actions are in no way justified by Christian doctrine. One might even say their behavior demonstrates they are not "real Christians". On the other hand when these Islamic terrorist "fight", "kill", "slay" and "smite the necks" of the un believers "until religion is only for allah", and continue to do so because religion is not yet "only for allah", we CANNOT argue they aren't "real Muslims" because they are Islamic fundamentalist. They follow a strict, literal interpretation of their Islamic doctrine. "Real Muslims" more so than most Muslims who do not adhere to their written doctrine in the Koran and Hadiths.

 

Whether you consider yourself atheist or not, even a cursory understanding of Christianity and the gospel message should reveal a diametric incompatibility between the God of Christianity and the god of Islam. The secularist argument that they're all the same God glosses over some glaring and irreconcilable contradictions.

And what I'm proposing is that both Christians and Muslims own their violent factions because the preponderance favors Christians by an imposing margin. Christians simply don't believe violence furthers Christianity or is in line with what Jesus taught. Even if we don't compare Jesus with Muhammad, the man of peace with the man of war, we can judge just by how Christians and Muslims act today which again puts Islam in a very unflattering light. We lose credibility when we apply a double standard, saying that violent Muslims are real Muslims but violent Christians are not real Christians. Not only do we lose credibility, but I can't ignore that those who commit violence in the name of Christianity believe they are Christians. So in the eyes of the world, we own it whether we want to or not and so we suffer the same plight as Muslims being judged this way. In fact, we begin to lose people when the perception is advanced that we've got our heads in the sand thinking we're perfect and have no flaws; that we ignore any scandal and pretend we have nothing to do with it. Nobody is going to believe that. Christianity has started in scandal (Judas Iscariot) and has endured scandal throughout the ages, and will continue to do so until Jesus returns. We bear it and continue to preach Jesus and preach peace and let wiser minds discern the truth.

 

Unfortunately Islamic doctrine has no such time constraints. The Islamic Caliphates that ruled from 632 until the 1920s, applying Islamic doctrine as the law, is no less required today than it was over a thousand years ago. Even today the Sunnis view the first 4 Islamic Caliphates as the "Righteously guided" that should be emulated today. They are the Caliphates that took Islamic rule from the Arabian Peninsula to an empire that spanned from Spain to India.

[5.44] ...whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unbelievers.
[5.45] ...whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unjust.
[5.47] ...whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors.

Hassan al-Banna founder of the Muslim Brotherhood said "It is the nature of Islam to dominate, not to be dominated, to impose its laws on all nations and extend its power to the entire planet."

Just as in the 14th century speaking of the sovereignty of the Islamic caliph, Ibn Khaldoon defined it as: "A representation, of the one who has the right to adopt the divine rules, aimed at protecting the Deen and ruling the world (Dunia) with it."

Like Al-Mawirdi before him in the 11th century defined it as: "Succession of the Prophethood aimed at protecting the Deen and ruling the world (Dunia)"

Islamic fundamentalist believe it is their destiny to rule over the entire world.
“I swear to Allah almighty Sharia will be implemented, I tell you, not only in Egypt. Sharia will be implemented in and govern the entire world.”
“This is the word of Allah and his messenger [Muhammad]. … I swear by Allah almighty, I swear, I swear the Islamic flag will be raised above the White House.”
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/mar/29/cleric-egypt-vows-islamic-flag-will-be-raised-abov/

The motto of the muslim brotherhood is "Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. The Qur'an is our law. Jihad is our way.
Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope. Allahu akbar!”

All meant for TODAY, even more so than 1000 years ago, since the last Islamic Caliphate was dissolved in the 1920s