The rise of anti-science

Discussion in 'Science' started by usfan, Apr 4, 2014.

  1. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    Western culture has had a lot of ups & downs over the last couple of centuries, but the anchor for it was the concept of an orderly world:
    1. consistency in natural law
    2. Use of the scientific method
    3. the logical pursuit of truth
    4. peer review, critical thinking, & skepticism were a balance to 'science by decree'.

    These concepts reached their heyday in post ww2 america. Engineers & scientific researchers leapfrogged advancement after advancement dazzling everyone with their ability to harness natural law as a tool.

    But to some, these things were not seen as a harnessing of laws of physics, but a creative & almost godlike power. A mystique built up around the fields of engineering & science, & it was a magnet to young people when they pursued a career. The fields of technology were major draws in the middle of the last century in america. Breakthroughs in medicine, manufacturing, computers, & just about every part of human life has been positively affected by these technological advances, & families encouraged their children to be part of that growth & advancement of humanity.

    The technological advances brought unprecedented prosperity & luxurious conditions for even the poorest in the nation. And as often has happened throughout history, with prosperity comes complacency & growing lethargy. Hard work loses its appeal, & easy living seems to be an easier route. Why work hard if you don't have to?

    And as the culture has declined, so has the magnet for technology. Fewer & fewer american youth desire a career in science or engineering. Non productive elements of society have taken center stage. Sports, entertainment, celebrity worship, money shuffling.. these things are valued & esteemed over the mundane & difficult scientific disciplines.

    Now, we are in a time of anti science. Social issues & cultural manipulation is taking place, of course claiming truth or science as a basis. But instead of open scrutiny, mandates. Instead of the scientific method, decree. Instead of logic & critical thinking, truth is declared & propaganda has become the new goal. Truth becomes what the establishment says, rather than something based on reason or facts. Critical thinking is not encouraged, just memorized dogma. History is not taught as dispassionate facts, but to mold a belief. Conclusions are presupposed, & memorized, instead of arrived at by research & thinking. THIS is the greatest failure of american education, which once was a beacon of classic liberal thought.. Now, it is just another state propaganda tool.

    Thoughts or rebuttals?
     
  2. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Couple of observations.

    1. this anti-science "movement" appears to be an American phenomena. (16 of the 21 known creationist museums are american)

    2. it is religiously based on a foundation of ignorance.

    3. it is politically expedient and convenient to pander to these anti-science forces.
     
  3. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    1. I see it as global, and it is not limited to christian circles. IMO, progressivism has more anti science ideology. They rely on mandates & conformity in thinking, & do not encourage critical thinking. Science thrives in a free environment, where innovation & creativity have room to bloom.
    2. I agree. But 'religious' is not just christian, as you seem to imply. Islamists, eastern religions, superstitions, & even agenda driven atheism has just as much 'religion' in their philosophical roots.
    3. Agreed. This is a great danger, when science is used as a propaganda tool. It is NOT really science, but pseudo science, as it relies on mandates & dogma, not the scientific method & an open forum for discovering truth.

    The problem is the rise of elitism.. looking to 'experts' to guide us. It is the dumbing down of the nation, & the disdain for science & the scientific method is a tragic loss for our thought processes as a people. Instead of having the basic tools to research, think, & evaluate data & logic, we are told to 'trust the smart people.' Everything is much too complex for us common mortals to grasp, & we need the elite experts to declare truth to us. We used to have the divinity of kings, or the divinely appointed priests & popes to declare absolute truth to us. Now, we have the divinity of experts.. degreed elites who pontificate & we must bow in obeisance.

    As the adoration of elitism grew, so did education transform as a classic liberal tool of enlightenment to a propaganda tool of indoctrination. At one time, critical thinking was emphasized, & 'liberal' meant an expansive, enlightened, open minded view of things.. a broader view of the nuances in thought, ideology, & critical thinking processes. Now, it is an indoctrination.. dogma is pounded into young people, so they do NOT think or consider alternatives, but have everything neatly defined for them, complete with demonizing any alternate views.

    The result has been LESS thought, more dogma, & a subservient electorate. The concept of human liberty is redefined, & revisionist history is shoved down people's throats. Open, scientific method enquiry is squashed, while memorizing indoctrination is employed. The results are clear: Less educated citizenry.. no sense of history or continuity. Dogmatic view of life & simplistic solutions. Bumper sticker slogans, rather than nuanced discussions of issues. Stupidity running rampant, & hysteria valued over reason.

    And like in the dark ages, the powers that be try to mandate truth by decree, instead of arriving at it through the scientific method. As a culture, we are moving away from a scientific view of the world, & into a faith based reality. 'Really smart people' make decrees about 'truth', & we are told to believe it.. don't question the experts or their handlers. Critical issues for us are not open to critique or examination, but we are indoctrinated from birth into state centered ideology. It is a giant step backward for humanity, as we surrender our minds to the puppet masters.

    Historically, truth eventually overcomes those who suppress it because it inconveniences their agenda. But man has not changed, & his basic tendencies to use power & decrees to control people are still there. There are always various flavors of superstition intermingling in a culture. If one gains prominence, it can dictate the rules & the facts. Reason is suppressed, critical thinking condemned, & questioning authority is punished.
     
  4. mutmekep

    mutmekep New Member

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    OP is wrong , western civilization is only one thing : anthropocentric .

    As about the backlash from unscientific agents for every action there is reaction and only a fool would expect modernities to pass without confrontation .
     
  5. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How odd. Elitism is PRECISELY what has fueled the scientific revolution of the past few hundred years.

    I don't believe the nation has been dumbed down at all. I think there have always been dumb people - half the world's population is below average intelligence. there have always been and always will be ignorant people.

    The good ol' boy livin' in a double wide is incapable of grasping the complexity of economic theory or determining environmental regulation or constructing meaningful school cirricula, yet his uninformed vote on such matters still counts as much as anyones.
    This is an inherent weakness of democracy which has always been exploited by the pols and power brokers (part of that elitist).

    Fact remains that anti-science movement is by and large a religious conservative one.


    Our civilization is hierarchial and always has been so which is why the vast majority of human achievement has been at the behest of the smartest, strongest, richest.
     
  6. lynx

    lynx Well-Known Member

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    That's probably because these scientific methods are out of date. They can't explain advanced science, UFO phenomenon, anti-gravity, space travel, the law of physics has been broken by the ufos and they provide no answers. They can't explain supernatural either, which they exists. When our primitive science can't prove ghosts or spirits exist, they just arrogantly deny it. People are no longer satisfy the answers our mainstream scientists provided with so much phenomenon going on, and they are wrong all the time, like the global warming hoax, what's even worst is that the mainstream scientists can be brought by global elites and corporations to cover up or provide mis-leading scientific reports to fool the public for their agenda. The scientists lost their credibility big time.
     
  7. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    You would need to prove the existence of:
    1. UFO's
    2. Spirits and ghosts
    In order for your argument to be valid.
     
  8. Nullity

    Nullity Active Member

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    I think you've accidentally wandered into the wrong forum. Please, allow me to point you in the right direction...

    Conspiracy Theories
     
  9. lynx

    lynx Well-Known Member

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    Your reply is Prefect example of my points. The mainstream primitive scientists can't provide answers, so they don't exist. But you know what, plenty of people have encounter with them.

    Even Clinton come out and said it is increasingly that we are not alone. Meanwhile, the scientists remain silence. How could the public trust them?
     
  10. lynx

    lynx Well-Known Member

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    Old trick again. I am right where I am. The scientists can't explain the UFO phenomenon, they don't know how ufos break the law of physics, because they don't have the knowledge, and they can't honestly come out and admit it, they cling to deny the public which many of them encounter the ufos themselves, therefore the public don't trust them like they used to.
     
  11. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    God of the Gaps and Arguments from Ignorance?
     
  12. lynx

    lynx Well-Known Member

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    Ignorance? of what?
     
  13. Nullity

    Nullity Active Member

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    Sorry bud, you sound just like a classic conspiracy theorist. Your arguments are full of falsehoods and logical fallacies.

    First, one can't really "break the law of physics". If we observed and tested some phenomenon that seemed to contradict our knowledge, it would simply mean that our "laws of physics" were incomplete and in need of revision. Second, scientists have no problem admitting when they do not know something. In fact, "I don't know" is the basic premise on which all science is built. Admitting you don't know something is the first step to figuring it out. Third, UFOs are, by definition, unknown and unexplained (by the "unidentified" part). If we knew what they were, they would no longer be UFOs. However, it seems that you are specifically using the form of the term referring to alien spacecraft. I would not immediately rule that out as a possibility (however improbable), although to this date, we have yet to acquire any empirical scientific evidence to suggest this might be the case. And before you throw out that same non-sequitur, this does not mean that alien UFOs do not or cannot exist, just that we do not yet have enough information to claim that they do.

    (To clarify, personal anecdote does not qualify as empirical scientific evidence.)

    Unfortunately, it seems no amount of logic can correct this conspiracy theorist mindset.
     
  14. twed

    twed Banned

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    all religion is anti-mind, irrational. It's quite simple, really. when you allow poison into your mind, your mind loses ability to build conceptually, on principles. Perhaps not completely, but why allow ANY poison into any part of yourself.?
     
  15. TBryant

    TBryant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have a couple of thoughts on this.

    One, scientific discoveries and new technology was much more assessable than it is today. Most cutting edge tech is copyrighted quickly and kept highly covert while developed in hopes of it producing a salable product. Back in the mid 1900's kids could buy the components to build almost any tech you could find in a store.

    Two, things have developed a lot since those days. Technology has just gotten way more complex. The average person is not going to reproduce it or understand it without a lot of school.

    Also I would add that there has never been a place in scientific history that people completely discounted authority. Lots of discoveries were made specifically because new scientist trusted the discoveries of the people who came before. Discounting all the scientific research done by the current scientific community is like refusing to use a flashlight in the forest at night because you trust your "own" eyes more.
     
  16. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    You are claiming that because scientists cannot explain X, is must be Y.

    That isn't how it works.

    Scientists admit to mysteries all the time. It is nothing more than your imagination claiming that scientists cower in fear of the unknown.
     
  17. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    No offense, but you aren't showing much of a scientific bent with that answer. Science proves nothing. It is impossible to prove something scientifically. A more correct statement would be that:

    You would need to provide measurable and testible evidence for the existence of:
    1. UFO's
    2. SPirits and ghosts
    In order for your argument to be valid.

    UFOs do exist, BTW. All UFO's are are flying phenomena that the observer can't identify. What they are nobody knows, but they do exist.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I know when I want an answer to a scientific question, Bill Clinton is who I would ask :)
     
  18. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    I suppose I stand corrected.
     
  19. lynx

    lynx Well-Known Member

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    Empirical scientific evidence is where the modern science fail regarding to the ufos and supernatural. Blindly follow empirical scientific evidence is exactly why the anti-(modern)science raise among the public. With thousands of thousands of ufos reports and alien encounter reports ALL OVER THE WORLD, empirical scientific evidence don't even accept these, that make a lot of people angry, even Court would use accept witness, what make today's scientific field so special that they can just dismiss all these witnessess? Don't you think today's scientific field a bit arrogant and rude?

    Beside, with billions and millions of stars and galaxies, it is mathematically impossible for there are no intelligent life out there, but there are no empirical scientific evidence, they don't exist. The scientists don't even advanced enough to apply the method of empirical scientific to prove whether they exist or not in the first place, requiring empirical scientific evidence to prove ufos just simply doesn't make sense. Because the scientists today just don't have the knowledge and even the basic concept of the these advanced technology. They can't provide answers anymore and the public know that. May be that's why there are rise of anti-science.
     
  20. lynx

    lynx Well-Known Member

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    Not really, I am complaining their attitude," There are no Empirical scientific evidence, so , they don't exist", but they fail to mention it is their limited knowledge that limit them to have any empirical scientific evidence in the first place.
     

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