Time to Get Real About Ukraine

World·The New Voice of Ukraine
Shoigu orders all PMCs to be placed under Russian Defense Ministry control, Prigozhin immediately refuses

 

• Prigozhin says Wagner will not sign any contract with Russian defence minister
  Reuters
  
• Wagner chief rejects Russian Defense Ministry efforts to rein in his force
  CNN
  

 

Here we go again! OK I'll bite, you name the specific wars (not incidents ) your referring to and I'll research them and respond.

 

All the "indisputability" is based on the assurances of the Ukrainian side, but they are interested in blaming Russia. This is not evidence.

I repeat the question about aliens again: if the Ukrainians had said this, would you have taken their word for it or would you have interviewed other witnesses additionally?

 

The case is closed.

 

Like a child!

You can say that "the case is closed", you can not believe it, you can close your eyes. Your opinion will not affect the objective reality in any way. There are true events and your artificial universe, the "matrix". Live in it, no one bothers you, but then don't be surprised when reality clicks you painfully on the nose!

 

Kwame Nkrumah, assassinated by cia. Gbagbo, ivory coast president house bombed by NATO. These are declarations of war against democratic government

 

Are our Putinists still trying to lie and deny that Russia blew up the dam and several others? How sad.

 

There is no longer debate.

 

Any conflicting aims or any disagreements between Prigozhin and Putin and Prgozhin and the Russian MOD is a welcome development to Zelenskyy and Ukraine.

 

CEPA
Think Ukraine's Offensive Has Started? Wait for the Heavy Brigades

 

Gen Hodges has always been very optimistic about Ukraine’s ability to sustain a counteroffensive. The lack of decent air power ( modern fighters) will hamper Ukraine but hope that it is not fatal. Strong mobile air defense would be very helpful to Ukraine.

 

OK ignoring the fact those are incidents and not wars. I research anyway.

 

Both claims are false.

 

World·Business Insider
Ukraine appears to be playing a deadly 'game' as the big counteroffensive gets underway, and its main attack is likely still to come

 

World·Business Insider
Video shows Ukrainian artillery raking a Russian tank convoy near the front lines, destroying one of the T-72s

 

Fīat jūstitia ruat cælum.


Europe wants to use Russia's assets to pay for Ukraine's reconstruction — here's how it might work

 

Those were declarations of war, same principle. If you expect ivory coast to go to war with NATO then I'm afraid you are not being realistic. The point being, NATO was ready and willing to war with democracy and in fact did bomb up presidential palaces. Which proves that being democratic in no way protects you from aggression from a more well armed democracy.

 

ukrainian forces fighting for nato (2010), bombing the democratic nation of ivory coast (147 dead nato soldiers) but this wasnt a war, right?

 

Nato airstrikes on democratic nation of pakistan, killing 24 soldiers in pakistans army.

 

OK, research done. And seriously did you even bother to read my post pertaining to what you called my 'little theory i.e. That Democratic Nations tended not to make (military) war on each other (as supported by the lessons of history since the mid 20th century at least and arguably earlier. So lets go ahead no and rain on completely fact fee counter argument.

Lets stating with Nkumah. He was deposed in 1966 by a coup at the least encouraged if not actively organized by the CIA that much of your own pet little counter theory is true. Unfortunately in 1964 he organized an constitutional amendment in 1964 that made his party (the CPP) the only legal political party in Ghana. This passed with a record winning margin of 99.9% BTW so according to you, since the election was obviously 'free and fair' apparently even active members of other political parties in Ghana at the time thought it would be a good idea if they were all dissolved . This was after passing a law in 1962 which gave him the power to sack and appoint all judges in the country. And as for the coup? That was initiated by large sections of the Ghanan civil service, police and military, even if they had western encouragement. No western military units were involved. Lastly? Nkrumah dies from prostate cancer in 1972, despite your claim that he was assassinated. I'm call that natural causes unless you have proof to the contrary. Perhaps the CIA 'got' to his prostate? Must have been a team from the IMF, I hear Jim Phelps was around at the time.

So to summarize. 1) Ghana was NOT a democracy at the time of the revolution. 2) There was no attack on the country by western military, the coup and any violence related to it being the result of internal domestic forces, even if encouraged by outside influences. 3) My theory stands. 4) You were wrong - so, so wrong!

Moving on to whom I assume you are referring to in your post Koudou Gbagbo former President of the Ivory Coast (another poster boy for African democracy 'not' BTW) . Firstly the only record I can find of direct western 'bombings' at the time were undertaken by UN sanctioned aircraft (dome MI-24s and later some French helicopters ) operating as part of the intervention force sent to end the then ongoing civil war in the country that was killing thousands. His compound later came under fire from French forces also operating with the UN with the intention of destroying a large number of armored vehicles and heavy weapons he had surrounded his home with. This war only ensued BTW after Gbagbo refused to hand over power having lost the election of 2011 to his opponent. A result BTW that was confirmed by international election observers and those two stalwarts of western imperialism the African Union and the Economic Community of West Africa! He was subsequently arrested on a warrant for crimes relating to the violence that had occurred by the ICC although never stood trial die to claims of ill health. A decision for which the ICC was roundly critizised and has since gone on the shape their dealings with other persons brought before the Court.

So to summarize again. 1) The war in question was a civil war that only commenced after Gbagbo refused to accpet the results of an election that the peak African Political bodies recognized as legitimate. 2) The UN sanctioned the subsequent intervention which although lead by France also large numbers of troops from other African Nations. 3) Given Gbagbo had refused to accept the result of a free and fair election (or at least as close as it was possible to get at the time) he was also by default a dictator and hence, once again it was not a case of democratic nations attacking each other ergo my theory still stands. (anf gain your wrong.)

Lastly and to clarify. My position is that democrat nations tend not to declare (military) war on each other. You have so far failed to provide a single shred of evidence that this statement is false. Having said that however my statement doesn't imply that Democracies, western or not are on the side of the angels. They have in the past committed and will continue to commit acts against each other that would be illegal if found to have been committed against themselves. Hypocritical I know but there you have it.

Democratic nations compete for economic and political dominance over each other all the time, sometimes illegally . Examples of this are unfortunately common, I can think of two for start. The Rainbow Warrior bombing (thank you France and Australians bugging of East Timorise officials during negotiations over oil and gas reserves There is along list, pick a country and you can probably find a recent historical example. And if you can't? It's probably only because they haven't been caught yet. It's not nice, its technically not even legal (in the jurisdiction of the victim) but its not WAR.

So again You are just .......WRONG.

 

It is raining again in southern Ukraine. That will slow things down a bit more.

 

Depends how long it rains for and how much. Its been dry for a few weeks now. That said, yes it wont help but there's no way the Ukrainians planned for this operation in the expectation that the weather would be perfect for the duration.

The most important factor I can see governing how long the the op lasts is how quickly they burn through their stockpiles of men and material as they advance. At the moment they only seem to be averaging a few hundred meters a day in most places. And they need to advance anything from 20-40 klicks to score a major victory (disrupt the east west road and rail networks used by Russia), except around Bakhmut of course where at a guess the goal is to snatch back the one 'victory'' Putin has been publicly able to proclaim since the first day his war began.

 

Ok let's play your semantic game.

You are right! Democracies don't wage war on eachother because there are very few democratic nations. Possibly 2 maybe 3 and they are all thousands of miles apart .

 

It's hot here. I'm eating lunch.