Trump, aka "the Devil," made me storm the Capitol

Are you all buying this defense some of the rioters are making? I personally know the lawyer making this defense as regards a different rioter than the one mentioned below:

Dominic Pezzola, also known as "Spaz," is one of at least six alleged Proud Boys facing criminal charges stemming from the insurrection by Trump's supporters at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, which left 5 people dead and interrupted Congress from certifying President Joe Biden's election victory.

Pezzola's lawyer Jonathan Zucker, in a court filing earlier on Wednesday, echoed arguments that U.S. House Democrats have made repeatedly this week during Trump's impeachment trial in the Senate, telling the judge his client was duped by Trump's lies that the election had been stolen and acted on "delusional belief."

Pezzola, who he claimed has "minimal" involvement with the Proud Boys, "was one of millions of Americans who were misled by the President's deception," Zucker wrote, noting there was "no rational basis for such a claim."

"Many of those who heeded his call will be spending substantial portions if not the remainder of their lives in prison as a consequence. Meanwhile Donald Trump resumes his life of luxury and privilege," he added in a footnote.


https://news.trust.org/item/20210210220817-pz76c

Note the disparagement of Trump's "privilege". Mind you, this argument is directed to a U.S. Magistrate. I don't know why she is supposed to be moved by, or even find relevant, the "fact" that Trump is privileged. It's such a worn out word.

 

"So, which line, specifically, made you believe that he wanted you to storm the WH?"

 

You don't get it do you? Having mind control over a person isn't accomplished with 'a line'. It started the first time trump said if we don't win it will be because they rigged the election. From that point forward he continually built up the verbiage till he had a bunch of mindless minions who believed the venom he spewed.

 

That's nice, if unoriginal. But my question is whether you would acquit the rioters on the grounds that the President made them do it? They were mere "mindless minions," don't forget.

 

No one is saying to acquit them. Those defendants are hoping for a more lenient sentence and yes,Trump's words were a motivating force on them carrying out their actions

 

trump said that he loved the poorly educated, but now you want to throw them under the bus to save his ass. That seems rather tacky.
He should have pardoned them all before leaving office if he cared about them, but I guess they didn’t have enough money to buy themselves one.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a...ad-a-history-of-financial-trouble/ar-BB1dyUcH

 

No, I don't consider being a cult member a free ticket to committing a crime.

 

This is a typical defense by supporters of The Trumpocity in that they make this type of disingenuous excuse forTheir Trumpocity. They ignore the months of lies told by the Trumpocity setting the stage for the attack that the Trumpocity himself motivated his most guilible of the guilibles.

Those fans of the Trumpocity were as guilible and slaves to Trumpocity's words just as the Islamic terrorists ISIS of the ME. Trumpocity is the Mohammad of DJT supporters make no mistake about it.

Trump is as guilty as his terrorists and no neither the terrorists nor thevTrumpocity should be acquitted nor be dealt with leniently.

 

So there isn't a line?

That's all you had to say, that there isn't one.

 

Yay!!!!

 

TRUMP FOLLOWERS:

"""A majority of the people arrested for Capitol riot had a history of financial trouble

Nearly 60 percent of the people facing charges related to the Capitol riot showed signs of prior money troubles, including bankruptcies, notices of eviction or foreclosure, bad debts, or unpaid taxes over the past two decades.

The group’s bankruptcy rate — 18 percent — was nearly twice as high as that of the American public, The Post found.
A quarter of them had been sued for money owed to a creditor.
And 1 in 5 of them faced losing their home at one point, according to court filings. """"



Sounds like they went to Trump University for money management courses.....they ALL sound like such losers with NO personal responsibility.....their financial history looks like Trump's !!!

 

I could easily see the words used by Maxine Waters like "get in their face, tell them they aren't welcome" as a motivating force for violence. Should a stranger ever invade my space, get in my face, he would definitely be inviting violence. Nevertheless, I have yet to see one Republican pay the bail of these "mindless occupants". Democrats led by Kamala Harris, bailed out this summers looters only to have them offend again!

 

We aren't even talking in this thread about his ass. He faces impeachment regardless of the verdicts in the rioters' cases. We are talking about the rioters and whether they should be acquitted because Trump programmed or brainwashed them, as the defense lawyers are claiming.

Well, I don't know about throwing "them" under the bus. There are about 70 million Trump voters who did not storm the capitol, a good number of whom called on him to resign and at a minimum condemn the riots and Trump's speech. Anyway, federal officials estimate about 800 did enter the Capitol. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_storming_of_the_United_States_Capitol

The quotient of that fraction (800/70,000,000) is 0.00001142857. As a percentage, that's .001142857. And most of the 800 just walked around.

Anyway, will you vote to find them not guilty since Trump made them enter the Capitol?

 

The more this plays out the more it feels like the WWE riot was staged.

 

So you would not acquit, you would do ... what? Reduce the normally applicable sentence? the overwhelming majority of the 800 are looking at probation or a small fine at most. To what will you reduce the sentence?

 

Then why bring it up at all? It's either relevant in their case or it isn't. The political price Donald Trump should pay will not be an admissible argument in their case. Federal judges are serious about that kind of stuff.

 

I didn't say I'd do anything. They clearly believe that they will get a lesser punishment or fine. What do you think they hope to gain

 

Okay, now let me ask you this: if "acceptance of responsibility" is a factor in determining a federal sentence, and it is, then how is deflecting the responsibility towards Trump, as the defendants are doing, a mitigating factor? (§3E1.1 - ACCEPTANCE OF RESPONSIBILITY
(a) If the defendant clearly demonstrates acceptance of responsibility for his offense, decrease the offense level by 2 levels. https://guidelines.ussc.gov/gl/§3E1.1)

I think they run the risk of incurring the wrath of the court with this "the devil madam do it" stuff.

 

Okay, you didn't say. You may say so now: if you were the sentencing judge, how would "the devil made me do it" factor into your decision?

 

It wouldn't. However hard luck stories regularly are used to lessen sentences as are victim statements

 

Okay.

Personally, I'd increase the sentence. It's an infantile and wormy defense to say "Johnny made me do it."

Or I guess it's "Donny" in this case.

 

No not buying it. Trump didn't tell these people to storm the Capitol. They keep putting up these posts from the rioters, and literally all the messages say is Trump told me to show up on Jan 6. Trump told me to march to the Capitol. So effen what. how does this crap transform into Trump told me to bash this cops face in with a baseball bat.

Not seeing the connection...

 

I'm quite right wing on sentencing. If someone shoots someone and the victim did not die I would still like the case to be treated in the same way as murder and sentenced as if the victoim died. Similarly if someone is found to be armed while carrying out a crime I would still favor the criminal to be treated as if he actually used that weapon in carrying out a crime and sentenced the same way

 

Back in the olden days, captives had to renounce their king and promise fealty to the new king or be killed or banished. This is the modern version what they are doing - Offering them the chance to blame Trump in return for leniency. If you are a "nobody" like these guys, they have nothing to lose and everything to gain by promising to tell CNN "Trump made me do it".

 

You could ask that of thousands of people.

And every one of them will tell investigators that Trump gave the orders.

Personal responsibility is not big with this crowd. Which is why they grew even more devoted to Trump when he pointed refused to accept responsibility for not doing his job.

Trump and Trumpsters are always talking about someone else taking responsibility.

But Trump was never held responsible for anything he did in his whole life, and he feels no sense of responsibility.

He is a victim. He’ll tell you that, straight out.

So will most of his angry white base. Just watch the videos of them trying to destroy the nation’s capitol.