Trump Jr.'s 2017 Testimony Conflicts With Cohen's Account Of Russian Talks

This is really getting tough. You quoted my post, a paraphrase of the statute, that an uncovered crime has to be reviewed by the AG before the prosecutor can do anything about it. Then you countered that by claiming the prosecutor can follow up on any crime and doesn't need to review it with the AG. You're making me dizzy. What did Manafort's alleged crimes, done years before the 2016 election and having zero to do with Trump, have to do with "links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals in the Trump campaign?" If you find this difficult, I'll help: NOTHING!

 

I have explained the law 2 or 3 times now. I posted the section of the law, and you even quoted that post. Three strikes and you're out.

 

His report will be the first such from any US Attorney, who by long standing protocol never issue a public report on cases they have prosecuted. Although this case is a little different because, until now, no US Attorney had a case with the objective to find things that might be impeachable offenses. Leon Jaworski struggled and stewed mightily to find a way to get his Watergate information to the House. I suspect, to Mueller, it will be like getting up in the morning.

 

Mueller's charge fromthe Trump Justice Department was to serve as Special Counsel to oversee the previously-confirmed FBI investigation of Russian government efforts to influence the 2016 presidential election and related matters. He appears to be fulfilling his assignment with diligence, discretion, thoroughness, and integrity. When completed, he shall submit his report to whomever is then Attorney General, and pressure to share the finding with Congress and the public will ensue.

 

No actually you didn't you posted a totally irrelevent section. Here is the section you posted:

28 CFR § 600.4 Jurisdiction.
"....... The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall also include the authority to investigate and prosecute federal crimes committed in the course of, and with intent to interfere with, the Special Counsel's investigation, such as perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses;

That in no way does the limitations on the special council you pretend exists. That is separate authorization allowing prosecution in case of attempted obstruction of justice, etc, while Mueller is actuslly doing the investigation.

Try at least to understand your own posts.

 

That's pretty much what I said. Except Mueller has gone way far afield of his given assignment -- which is illegal, I might add -- but who's counting. It is illegal per 28CFR-600 because he is authorized to investigate only "links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals in the Trump campaign." If he discovers other crimes, unless they directly stem from and are directly tied to the stated assignment, he must get permission from the AG to pursue. Plus, as a side note, that permission has to come from the actual AG, not Rosenstein, the Deputy AG. Another exception might be your clever phrase "and related matters" which can be interpreted many ways, most, but not all, incorrectly.

You are correct about the report. Mueller will issue a report to the AG (or maybe Rosenstein, I'm not sure) who will in turn decide to make it available to others or not. That would all be perfectly legal even though it (the release) is unheard of for normal US Attorney actions.

 

You are nimbly gliding right over the part that says, "....... committed in the course of, and with intent to interfere with, the Special Counsel's investigation [meaning the specific and explicit "crime" he was assigned to investigate]......." which means the additional potential crime must be tied to, stem from, and be integral to his assigned investigation. Flynn and Papadupoulos probably fall under that (I have my doubts, but Mueller would easily win that debate), but Manafort's prosecution doesn't come close and is therefore illegal.

 

Your personal view that "Mueller has gone way far afield of his given assignment" would obviously result in the Trump Justice Department admonishing or disciplining him if it shared your view.

In specifying Mueller's purview, "and related matters" is not my clever phrase. It is Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein's in his appointment of the Trump Justice Department Special Counsel.

Such an attack by a hostile foreign power upon the US democratic process is unheard of. How much the American public has the right to know regarding it must be considered, and that may be the call of their elected representatives.

 

It says nothing of the sort. It gives the right exactly as you claim but nowhere does it preclude investigating other crimes that are found during the course of the investigation. What you are posting is why Flynn, Manifort, and Cohen can be charged with the perjuries committed during the course of the investigation.

Your interpretation would require words like " only" or " limited to" Either you do not understand the English language or you are being deliberatly obtuse but nothing in what you posted invalidates part " c" of the letter giving Mueller the investigative authority.

 

It's the "Trump Justice Department" in name only. Why you think the real DOJ would admonish Mueller for over stepping his authority escapes me.

There are related matters and then there are other related matters. Rosenstein does not decide; the law does.

#1, it is not unheard of. #2, Obama kept it quiet even though Russian interference occurred under his watch.

 

Which part of "must get authority from the AG" are you having trouble understanding? Must?? AG?? Authority??

 

It's Trump's Justice Department, not Obama's. It's headed by Trumpie Whittaker.

"It would be a huge mistake not to let the Mueller investigation come to its conclusion."
Roy Blunt (R) Senate Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.
​

 

Blah, blah, blah!

 

So sorry but nothing you have posted that actually quotes any law has had that phrase. You posted your interpretation using that wording not the actual document. Want to pist the real law?

 

If you cannot comprehend plain english, I have no hope for you.

 

Nice try. But you still haven't actually posted any part of a law that supports your position. Apologize for my unwillingness to take your word for it.

 

Damn, you're making me tired.

28 CFR § 600.4 Jurisdiction.

(b)Additional jurisdiction. If in the course of his or her investigation the Special Counsel concludes that additional jurisdiction beyond that specified in his or her original jurisdiction is necessary in order to fully investigate and resolve the matters assigned, or to investigate new matters that come to light in the course of his or her investigation, he or she shall consult with the Attorney General, who will determine whether to include the additional matters within the Special Counsel's jurisdiction or assign them elsewhere.​

 

Yes thanks for posting that for the first time. Your only problem is that the letter appointing Mueller says that his jurisdiction includes investigating any federal crimes that may be discovered in the course of investigating the possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia the Trump transition team with Russia. So when you can find anything that Mueller has actually investigated outside of the scope of his appointment you will have a case. And clearly the investigations into the Trump financial ties with Russia as motive fall under that jurisdiction. Till then you got bupkis. Here read the letter again

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3726408-Rosenstein-letter-appointing-Mueller-special.html

But do send you hypothesis to Trump's lawyers. If nothing else it will give them a good chuckle.

 

The law says that Mueller can investigate other matters only if they stem directly from and are integral to the designated jurisdiction, and the law gives examples of what those are. Manafort's "crimes" e.g. are not included. It's possible (likely?) that Rosenstein weasel worded his letter to sneak in an implication that Mueller could beyond the scope, to wit, "(iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a)." That would be illegal because 1. Rosenstein cannot change the wording or meaning of the law -- which says additional matters must be approved by the AG -- through an appointment letter, and 2. Rosenstein, as acting Attorney General only for Russia-Trump 2016 election matters, has no authority to approve any other matter -- only the actual Attorney General has that authority.

Please do not respond that a bunch of judges have responded and ruled differently. There is a ton of lawlessness, unconstitutionality, and inappropriate prosecution taking place with the Mueller investigation. I'm just stating the law, not how others simply ignore the law.

 

The jurisdiction Mueller has is spelled out in the Letter of appointment. Why are you not understanding such a simple fact. Read the letter again paying attention to part "c"

And the law says matters outside the jurisdiction given to the special council must be cleared by the Attorney General who in this case recused himself. The law nowhere says the " actual attorney general". You just made that up. At least try to be honest!

And the examples given are crimes resulting specifically during the course of the investigation and which would not have occurred if there was no investigation which means they could not possibly be spelled out in the letter of appointment like lying under oath, etc,etc,

And here is an except from the appointment of Ken Starr giving very similar broad investigative authority

"The independent counsel shall have jurisdiction and authority to investigate other allegations or evidence or violation of any federal criminal law, other than a Class B or C misdemeanor or infraction, by any person or entity developed during the independent counsel's investigation referred to above and connected with or arising out of that investigation.

The independent counsel shall have jurisdiction and authority to investigate any violation of 28 U.S.C. Section 1826, or any obstruction of the due administration of justice, or any material false testimony or statement in violation of federal criminal law, in connection with any investigation of the matters described above.

The independent counsel shall have jurisdiction and authority to seek indictments and to prosecute any persons or entities involved in any of the matters described above, who are reasonably believed to have committed a violation of any federal criminal law arising out of such matters, including persons or entities who have engaged in an unlawful conspiracy or who have aided or abetted any federal offense.

The independent counsel shall have all the powers and authority provided by the Independent Counsel Reauthorization Act of 1994. "

 

You are beyond hope. Do you realize (I'm sure not) that Starr's movement beyond Whitewater required explicit approval of Reno, the AG, and a special three judge panel set up just for that purpose???????????
You're also hanging you hat on the fact the law says just approval by the Attorney General and not the "actual Attorney General"??????? As I said, beyond all hope.

 

Sorry you got caught lying about " actual Attorney General" shouldn't make things up! But am curious as to why you thought you had to add " actual"

 

to distinguish it from Rosenstein.

 

Q

Ok, you get an A for effort. But a fail for law comprehension.

 

Oh, darn. And I was so counting on an A from you.